Bessa R2A or R2M or Leica M3?

[Gabriel M.A.]

Originally Posted by JoeFriday

I have an M3, and I occasionally think of trading it for a ZI..

Sacre bleu! Whenever you get to that stage, give me a chime, I'll give it a good (crowded, but good) home

[enochRoot]

built in meters are very handy. i have no idea why everyone here says using a camera without a built in meter, and estimating the light yourself will make you a better photographer. that is complete crap. it *will* make you better at judging the light yourself, and shooting without a meter. that's it. i have used meterless cameras in the past (and even now every once in a while), and i must admit that i really enjoy how fast it is to shoot that way. it feels liberating to a degree. but in the end, having a meter in the camera is a good thing. just igonre it if you don't want to use it. and really...from a technical standpoint, using the built in meter does produce better exposures (especially w/ slide film). as ampguy said...do what is best for you. but know there is no shame in using a metered camera, and more importantly...you are not any better or worse of a photographer for it. sorry for the rant, but i can only see it written here so many times that judging the light yourself makes you a "better" photographer.

[hth]

AE and preset meterless cameras allow me to concentrate on taking photos. I get distracted by an uncoupled meter that almost always tell me that I am exposing wrong. For me, fewer distractions makes it more enjoyable.

On the other hand, I am not so terribly good at guessing the light, so rely on a handheld meter to give me a ballpark figure and use estimated guesses from it. I think I prefer AE most of the time though.

/Håkan

[ghost]

metered cameras are just more versatile.

[xayraa33]

Originally Posted by kully

I'm wondering,

Do the M3 or M2 need the leaders of films trimmed like the screw mounts do?

No they do not.

[ywenz]

Always get the meter. You will undoubtly find yourself one day in a tricky lighting condition and if you sport the camera w/o the meter and no hand held meter, you'd be screwed. Unless, of course, you are extremely confident in your meterless photography..

[back alley]

i really like my m3 but i never take it when i think i will be shooting more than one roll on an outing. it's slow to load. i don't care what anyone says about it, it is slow compared to any camera with a hinged back.
that being said, the m3 makes shooting a wonderful experience.
i use mine with a collapsible elmar as a one camera/lens kit when i want a leisurly outing.

the cl, as much as i love it, is in the smae category for me.

the zi is for shooting when i know it's a few films outing.

[Dougg]

I would not recommend going entirely without a meter. There are certainly standard situations where one can closely estimate what a meter would tell you, and that's fine. I am often surprised though at the number of users who simply feel a built-in meter is a necessity. Having a meter is a necessity, but it need not be built-in or clip-on... IMHO, a handheld separate meter used in the incident mode usually gives the most useful exposure information. And a handheld meter is a valuable educational device! But I also like AE, and for its benefits I'll compromise on the incident readings. For me AE is the only reason to want a built-in meter.

[Scarpia]

This discussion is only valid for the near term. Now that Anaanda has joined our group he will soon find himself with metered, unmetered, fixed lens, interchangeable lens, FSU, collectible, etc. RF cameras. It is inevitable. If he is married I hope he has a sympathetic wife.
Kurt M.

[ghost]

as they say, cars don't need auto ignition, but it sure makes things smoother.

[Mister E]

M3m3m3m3m3m3m3m3m3m3m3m3m3m3m3

[ironhorse]

I agree, but this decision was probably made four and a half years ago.

[Matus]

If you want built in light meter AND AE - then the Bessa does a very good job. I had an R3A I used with 50 mm lens (40 mm frame lines felt a bit tight and I do not wear glasses). The camera is actually a very good tool - excellent viewfinder, contrasty RF patch, simple design. Personally - I was disturbed by the shutter noise enough to sell it after half a year. But most people are fine with that. Zeiss ZI is supposed to have a very similar shutter. I should say that all my other cameras have mechanical or electronic leaf shutters that are naturally very quiet - so I am a bit spoiled. Still - I find many modern APS-C DSLRs to have more pleasing shutter sound than the R3A. Again - just try it before you buy.

What about M6? with bit of patience it should be possible to get one for about price of new R2/3A.

[kshapero]

M3 for me. all the way

[stupid leica]

shooting negatives, you don't need to be very accurate with the metering, and can overexpose most C41 stuff up to (and beyond!) 4 stops. I wouldn't worry about the top shutter speed and lack of a meter so much.

BUT- the R2_ and M3 are apples and oranges. The R2 compares to the M2's finder, and the R3_ compares to the M3's finder.

I, along with many others, prefer the feel and build of a Leica over a Voigtlander ANY day, and i am willing to give up the "speed" of AE for build and feel of a mechanical camera.

I currently don't have a M body, just a Canon P- which is basically a Japanese LTM M3 (with shorter EBL)

[lewis44]

The M3 is great and if you love the viewfinder, but want the built in meter it's the R3A or R3M for you.
The M3 is My favorite, but I have a R3M as well. Can't go wrong with either.

[rxmd]

Thread necromancy, plus flogging a dead horse - everything has been said already, just not yet by everyone.

[thegman]

I voted R2A, purely for the AE. Personally, I would not worry about 1/2000th of a second, you can always stop down, get an ND filter, or just over expose by one stop.

If you're shooting negative film, you can likely do without a meter, but slide film you likely cannot.

The M3 is obviously a legend, and a very pretty camera, but for actually taking photos, unless that Leica build means everything to you, then the Bessa is likely better for everyday use.

I'd second the opinion to use the M3 for a bit, see how you go, and if you find a meterless camera a pain (I know I would for an every day camera), get the R2A and use your Summicron on it.

If you love the M3, you can get a tiny Voigtlander meter to put in the hotshoe, which will make things easier I imagine.

[Beta Photography]

I voted for M3 because I like to use it more than my bessa (especially M3 VF is hard to resist). I don't like bessa "smack" shutter sound :-)) but it's not a bad camera, and yes the built in meter making me shoot alot faster than my M3 (why in a hurry?).

Rgrds,

Beta

[jsrockit]

So, what did you do?

[crispy12]

The Bessa loading is much quicker. The newer M cameras such as m4 and up also have easier loading mechanics.

Would you ever consider buying a 35mm lens? Only the Bessa 2m supports that. I had a basic Bessa r2 and it was more functional than my current m6 due to better viewfinder and 1/2000. But didn't feel as good of course. The Leica cloth shutter is very quiet at high speeds > 1/125.

[Sam Kanga]

If you've got the M3 & 50 - you can do a helluva lot with that alone, not to mention that other M mount lenses are available.

The M leicas are not slow, once you know what you are doing - you'll get it by lunchtime! I have used an M2 for over 32 years, I love it. It is fast, accurate, discreet. Get a hand held meter and once you're used to judging the light, you won't even need that all the time - you'll be ready.

Being un prepared will make one miss shots, definitely not the camera. Think of all the guys who shot quickly with the Leica - Capa, HCB, Eugene Smith, Frank, David Seymour, Erwitt.... I could go on for a long time.

That's a great camera and lens combo.

Thanks
Sam

[paulfish4570]

an m3 was my first serious camera. i fondly remember it. i run an r2m now. i like the loading on the r2m much more than the leica m method. viewfinders are similar in use, but with the r2m, you can easily swap in inexpensive diopters as your eyes age/change. that said, ride that m3 until you're automatic. then try out an r2m with it's superb meter. this issue will sort itself out according to your experience, not anyone else's ...

[froyd]

I think it has been asked 3 times already...but WHY DOES EVERYONE KEEP POSTING ADVICE ON A THREAD STARTED IN 2006?

[paulfish4570]

i wouldn't have if i had noticed the date. i am a maroon ...