Horrifying prospect for any digital M8 8.2 owner!!!

[gdi]

Originally Posted by bob338

This thread is bringing RFF down to the level of the other photography forums.

Sometimes that would be an improvement!

[I Love Film]

Good Lord, JAAPV. You are aware of the new blogger disclosure laws?

How much does Leica pay you to make tens of thousands of posts in defense of Leica on multiple fori?

* I like Leicas as much as the next guy, and have many bodies and lenses, from early Barnacks to the M9, but sometimes you are WAY over the top. Get real, bucko.

Originally Posted by jaapv

But it is unknown whether the supply problem is in the screens themselves or in the associated electronics. I think it is safe to assume that Leica would have avoided the situation if at all possible.

[Keith]

It's amazing the way this place has changed since the introduction of the digital M back whenever ... and it changed for the better IMO. Courtesy of Leica digital suddenly became a lot more acceptable around here. Prior to this point posting digital images in the gallery wasn't encouraged and discussing digital imagery in the forums was akin to admitting you strangled puppies in your spare time!

The RD-1 also played a part in this shift. I was thinking about this last night after the dust settled in this rather volitile thread ... as much as the digital M divides us at times it has played a huge part in changing a few attitudes as well.

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by I Love Film

Good Lord, JAAPV. You are aware of the new blogger disclosure laws?

How much does Leica pay you to make tens of thousands of posts in defense of Leica on multiple fori?

* I like Leicas as much as the next guy, and have many bodies and lenses, from early Barnacks to the M9, but sometimes you are WAY over the top. Get real, bucko.

What has this to do with defense of Leica?.
Read before you go ad hominem.
Google shows thousands of screens. If the pages are not out of date.

Someone at Leica must know Google

So the problem must be in some other component associated with the LCD.

Is that defending Leica?


Only Leica bashers are allowed to post?

[I Love Film]

I am not a Leica basher. I'm a strong Leica enthusiast. I have been since I was a teenager, and have always owned Leicas.

I appreciate that you want to put a positive spin on everything concerned with Leica, but sometimes you hit the ball out of the park with your unbridled defense of Leica concerning EVERYTHING, leading to wild assertions.

C'mon now, even Leica can make a mistake once in a while.,

[IEDEI]

the official Stefan Daniels post about this situation:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...ml#post2163833

[Ben Z]

Originally Posted by jaapv

Google shows thousands of screens. If the pages are not out of date.

Someone at Leica must know Google

So the problem must be in some other component associated with the LCD.

According to Stefan Daniel, Leica's Product Manager, the problem is the LCD.

[tom.w.bn]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

the official Stefan Daniels post about this situation:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...ml#post2163833

This is an official statement I waited for. For me this turned internet blabla into something serious.

Does not cause me any sleep though. Never had one of those "typical" M8 problems so I hope for the best. More than this LCD issue I myself decreased the resale value of my M8 last week because I accidentally scratched the top plate of the camera multiple times in the bag

[pieter]

Weird. That whole statement seems more focussed on the M9 than the M8.
It describes the problems with the M8, explains why nothing can really be done about it and then says you just have to upgrade if your M8 lcd breaks. Which we already knew.

The meat of the message is to say the M9 is not affected, and that Leica is trying to keep service-parts for 10 years. But weirdly he then deals with the possible or hypothetical situation of M9 parts no longer being servicable within the 10 year lifetime. If that happens you will get the same deal as M8 owners: you will get an upgrade program.

Apparently the message is: Worry not, M9 owners, you could be the M8 owners of tomorrow, but you will get the same upgrade deal. (And then we will issue statements concerning the M10 not having the same problem.)

Hmmm as I read my own message here it seems quite polemical. Sorry for that, but I'm really wondering just how this statement changes anything for M8 owners?

[Gabriel M.A.]

Originally Posted by pieter

I'm really wondering just how this statement changes anything for M8 owners?

Right now, I feel the M8 should for now stay at home until I'm done digesting this. Although I got my M8 not for it to stay at home...

That may change. I've taken good care of it, and I've never had a camera's LCD break or go out on me.

[morgan]

The scary part is that Leica knew this batch of LCD's was defective. This quote from the official statement: "The lot in question was pulled out of service stock as soon as we have recognized the issue."

So they knew there was an issue but let those cameras out into the wild anyway. Why not do a recall? Why not order more replacements at that moment, during production and then offer to replace? It seems a litte irresponsible to just let those M8s out and hope for the best.

Edit: Pulled out of service stock. That makes more sense now. Seems they are in a pickle.

[jsrockit]

Makes me feel even better about limiting myself to a max of $2000 on a body. I wouldn't want to be a S2 owner in a few years...

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by morgan

The scary part is that Leica knew this batch of LCD's was defective. This quote from the official statement: "The lot in question was pulled out of service stock as soon as we have recognized the issue."

So they knew there was an issue but let those cameras out into the wild anyway. Why not do a recall? Why not order more replacements at that moment, during production and then offer to replace? It seems a litte irresponsible to just let those M8s out and hope for the best.

Edit: Pulled out of service stock. That makes more sense now. Seems they are in a pickle.

Because this was the coffeering issue. When they found (After a year in use) out they pulled the faulty lot out of stock and replaced the ones that came in. The LCDs had been off the market before then and could not be replaced in stock. Thus they ran out.
Of course they did not build the faulty lot into cameras knowingly, nor did they stock insufficient numbers initially until these factors came together.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by jaapv

Because this was the coffeering issue. When they found (After a year in use) out they pulled the lot out of stock and replaced the ones that came in. The LCDs had been of the market before then and could not be replaced in stock. Thus they ran out.

So if Leica didn't have the "coffee ring" issue, this probably wouldn't have happened so fast.

[ramosa]

Originally Posted by jaapv

Because this was the coffeering issue. When they found (After a year in use) out they pulled the faulty lot out of stock and replaced the ones that came in. The LCDs had been off the market before then and could not be replaced in stock. Thus they ran out.
Of course they did not build the faulty lot into cameras knowingly, nor did they stock insufficient numbers initially until these factors came together.

I'm waiting for "I love film" to see this one

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

So if Leica didn't have the "coffee ring" issue, this probably wouldn't have happened so fast.

Most likely not at all.

[coelacanth]

Oh well I'll just use mine till it breaks, then will think what to do.

[jaapv]

Well, Leica is not Kodak and it was a Nikon sensor....

[DamenS]

Hopefully Leica turnng to more mainstream components with greater manufacturing quotas (Sony sensor ?) will ameliorate this concern in models from the M10 onwards.

[daveleo]

This is a true story.

Years ago I was at the customer service desk in the LL Bean store in Maine. This guy in the line next to me drops a very very well worn jacket on the counter and says . . . "the zipper's broke".

I look at the jacket and it is dirty and worn out . The kid behind the counter says . . . "Go get another jacket off the rack ". . . . They switched it out at no charge because LL Bean (at the time, I don't know what they do today) had this lifetime guarantee . . . no questions asked . . . if you are not happy with our product, we will fix or replace it at no charge.

That's why people pay a lot of $$$ extra for LL Bean stuff and that's why LL Bean (generaly ) makes very very nice stuff.

I recently sold some stuff on this forum and my deal was always "If you have a problem with this equipment, send it back to me and I'll give you your money back, no questions asked." That is a a wonderful business practice because it makes the world better than big-dog-eats-little-dog.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by daveleo

This is a true story.

Years ago I was at the customer service desk in the LL Bean store in Maine. This guy in the line next to me drops a very very well worn jacket on the counter and says . . . "the zipper's broke".

I look at the jacket and it is dirty and worn out . The kid behind the counter says . . . "Go get another jacket off the rack ". . . . They switched it out at no charge because LL Bean (at the time, I don't know what they do today) had this lifetime guarantee . . . no questions asked . . . if you are not happy with our product, we will fix or replace it at no charge.

That's why people pay a lot of $$$ extra for LL Bean stuff and that's why LL Bean (generaly ) makes very very nice stuff.

I recently sold some stuff on this forum and my deal was always "If you have a problem with this equipment, send it back to me and I'll give you your money back, no questions asked." That is a a wonderful business practice because it makes the world better than big-dog-eats-little-dog.

Years ago I had a pair of boots made by RM Williams ... the high heeled ankle type with the elastic panels in the sides and they were expensive. After getting them soaking wet on numerous occasions (motorcyclist) and drying them too quickly the elastic gave up the ghost and went a bit crinkly ... this was after a couple of years. I took them in to RM Williams to get them repaired more than happy to pay whatever it cost. They sent them back to the factory and had them repaired at no charge to me ... and apologised for what had happened!!!!

I eventually wore those boots out (uppers) after having them re-soled but I'll never forget the service that came with them.

[Nikon Bob]

Originally Posted by photomoof

http://us.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m9/
"Compact, Built for a Lifetime, and Enduring in Value
It is not rare for a Leica to become its owner's lifelong companion. This also applies to the digital Leica M9 and equally to the M9-P: despite the considerably larger sensor, it has been possible to maintain the compact body size of their predecessors, the Leica M8 and M8.2. With dimensions of only 139 x 37 x 80 mm, the Leica M9 and M9-P retain the ideal size of the M series and the unique honor of being the world's smallest full-format digital system cameras. The full-metal housing, made from a high-tensile magnesium alloy, and a top deck and bottom plate machined from blocks of solid brass, provide perfect protection for their precious inner mechanisms. The digital components and shutter assembly of the M9 and the M9-P are similarly constructed with a lifetime of endurance in mind. Free updates ensure that the cameras' firmware always embraces the latest developments. In short: an M camera is not only an investment for life, but also a lifelong companion."

I guess they expect some of us to have pretty short lifespans. OTH hasn't it been pointed out in this thread by people in the know that they never said any such nonsense?

Bob

[Keith]

It's all water under the bridge really but it's annoying to think that Leica would have known that this was going to be an issue some time ago ... it's been their own 'dirty little secret!'

[bob338]

Originally Posted by Keith

It's all water under the bridge really but it's annoying to think that Leica would have known that this was going to be an issue some time ago ... it's been their own 'dirty little secret!'

Where is there a secret being held from us? Maybe my Dilaudid is clouding my ability to understand what I'm reading, but it seems like Stefan Daniels says here that they pulled the defective screens as soon as they discovered the problem.

"First of all, we are very sorry, that some of you encountered issues with your cameras. It remains our aim to find the very best solutions to satisfy you. Please let me give you some more information and details on the display issue.

The cameras with a display problem stay operational, image quality and the main functions are not affected.
The effect only occurs on a single production lot of displays, both built into M8 and M8.2.
The serial number of the camera doesn’t give information about the lot of the display.

The lot in question was pulled out of service stock as soon as we have recognized the issue.

Meanwhile the manufacturer of the LCD displays had stopped production, in general these parts have a very short life cycle and Leica did not have a possibility for additional production. As the display and the rest of the electronics are linked very much together, it was not possible to create a repair solution up to our quality requirements.

The display of the M9/M9-P is a different display and is sourced from another manufacturer and is therefore not affected. For the M9 as for all our products, we are taking measures that we are able to service the camera for a period of at least ten years after production will stop. In the case that (especially electronic-) parts are no longer available, we will offer an upgrade program. As you know, we have quite a history of being able to service our products for a period much longer than that!

The upgrade program will work with both a M9 or M9-P, with a slightly different premium. Please contact your local Leica Customer Care for details should you have concerns with your M8/ M8.2 display.

Best regards from Solms,

Stefan Daniel, Director Product Management"

[dkphoto]

I owned a Leica M8 (late production model from 2008).

I had some problems with the screen this year (famous coffee ring) and contacted Leica Solms if they could change the screen.

They replied that they couldn't change the screen because the suitable screen is not produced anymore. This was in March 2012 so this is not a new situation today.
Instead they made me a really good offer (a really, REALLY good offer!!) for a brandnew M9. They kept my used M8, i payed some money and they send me a M9.

So i don't see a problem here?
Who wouldn't switch from a M8 to a M9 for little money?