Candlelight Church Service--what film and developer?

[BardParker]

I want to photograph the end of our Christmas eve service from the balcony at church during the singing of Silent Night. The lights will be out and everyone will be holding candles. I am going to use my Mamiya 7 with 65mm lens as the leaf shutter is nearly silent and manual winding very quiet. Not enough room for a tripod, so I will be using a monopod. I have the following films available: Tri-X, TMax 400, Arista EDU Ultra 400, Ilford XP-2, Ilford HP-5+, and Ilford Delta 3200.

My developers on hand from a recent Freestyle order include Arista Premium (F76+); rodinal; tmax developer; and HC-110. I'm fairly new to developing but have had good results with Arista Premium developer and rodinal. Have not used the others yet.

I am leaning toward Tri-X or HP5+ pushed to 800-1600 in the Arista Premium developer; or Ilford Delta 3200 @ 1600 in TMax developer.

I would like to print at 11x14 or 16x20.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Kent

[oftheherd]

Before you decide, get someone to hold a candle like will be used and meter. I would guess you want faces, so meter the face of your subject. Remember you will be using mostly light from behind anyone whose face is turned towards you. Guessing the light for backgrounds, that is, anything else in the church is going to be guess work. All that is from memory of when I used to do a fair amount of available light. I haven't really done any in quite a while. Take several shots and try bracketing with both shutter and aperture if you have the time. If not, only aperture. Some of the shots should be what you want.

As to film, I used to use Tri-X, but then there was no ASA 3200 b/w film. Now that there is ISO 3200 film, if you are used to it, I would probably go for that for 3200. If you're only going 1600, which will work also, then I would go for Tri-X, since I used to get better results pushing Tri-X than Ilford HP5. YMMV.

Unless you are looking for b/w results, you might be surprised what color film will get you.

[Richard G]

Kodak's existing light table suggests 400 ASA 1/15 f2 for close ups of faces lit by candlelight. Can the monopod be leant against the choir balcony?

[BardParker]

Yes, the monopod can be braced against the balcony rail. I will be in the back of the church and people will be facing the alter, so will not see much of their faces; only the backs and tops of heads as they hold their candles. There will probably be about 400 people in the sanctuary.

Kent

[Livesteamer]

I would suggest your fastest film. I did this several years ago and got some lovely shots on Fuji color 400 film but I was using a Noctilux wide open. Good Luck and Enjoy. Joe

[VinceC]

Why not a full tripod? Combine that with any of the 400 speed films for maximum tones. Didn't specify max f/stop. Also, candlelight tends to be very forgiving because different parts of the scene are properly exposed depending on exposure time. Be very cautious with even a spot meter. You don't want to meter the candle flame but rather the people.

[kokoshawnuff]

TriX pushed to 1600 works wonderfully with f76+, but depending on your light Delta pushed to 6400 in Tmax might be more appropriate

[Richard G]

I don't think metering will help much. I don't know about development, but too much contrast and losing detail in the shadows will be a problem. Something of the church itself in the background would be very important for a nice shot. Can you use a point and shoot to get an idea of the effect of different settings? Bracketing will be worthwhile. With the camera stable I would certainly try 1/4s, 1/2s and even 1s. Do keep notes and post the results. We'll all learn something.

[ColSebastianMoran]

Please show us the results!

[Livesteamer]

If it is fully dark in the church and there is only candle light it is going to be very low light. You would have trouble getting the church in the photo. With 400 speed at f1.0 I think my shutter speed was only about 1/30. Aim down a row of people holding candles, focus on the face of the first candle holder and I bet you'll get some nice photos. You will mostly get candles and faces altho a wide angle shot of the whole congregation holding their candles up is lovely too. I just used the meter in the M6 and it worked out well. Joe

[swoop]

3200 f2 1/30

[Fawley]

Pushing Trix gets you only marginally more shadow detail and the candles will appear as bright specs whether you push or not. I would try Delta 3200 at full rating and developed in Microphene. I would give more development than normal to try and bring out a bit of midtone.

[oceanpriest]

use flash? bruce gilden's style

[Peter_S]

Originally Posted by swoop

3200 f2 1/30

+1.
Thats pretty much what I do when it gets dark. Delta 3200 at ASA3200 (in DD-X though) or slightly pushed, max aperture, 1/30.

[BardParker]

The candles will only be lit during the singing of the last hymn. Silent Night is a short hymn with only 3 stanzas and 4 verses, so I will only have time for one roll max (10 frames). No time for point and shoot but i will try. The church pews are not deep enough for a tripod but I might be able to improvise. The church will be full and I will be sitting with my family, so I really won't be able to get up and walk around. Mamiya 7 lens open up to f/4 maximum aperture. I certainly welcome and appreciate all the great advice on this forum. Will take notes and report back!

Merry Christmas,
Kent

[Gregoyle]

Since the 65mm lens only goes to f/4, you are going to need all the speed you can get. I'd say something at 3200 at least. Thinking about it though, even that might not be enough. I'd say either Tri-X with 1:100 Rodinal stand/semi-stand or Delta 3200 in TMax developer. Maybe even try a roll of either at 6400.

-Greg

[grapejohnson]

Originally Posted by oceanpriest

use flash? bruce gilden's style

Laughed out loud at this

Why don't you just bracket and use and entire roll? You have the entire length of the song, might as well try a few different things to make sure you get it right.

[sevo]

Originally Posted by Gregoyle

Since the 65mm lens only goes to f/4, you are going to need all the speed you can get.

Well, the fastest film is Delta 3200, whose low key speed is around 1600, no matter what you do - pushing will gain speed in the mid tones and highlights, at the cost of a contrast increase, but it can't do much to the shadow sensitivity. And boosting the highlights is not what you need with that lighting. With tripod, expose Delta for 1600 or even less - and use compensating development to bring down the contrast even more.

If it is impossible to bring/place a tripod, I'd take a different camera/lens. It is hard to beat any modern APS-C or up digital in candle-light conditions. And even 35mm Delta exposed at 1000-1600 with a f/1.4 lens, hand-held, will do much better in that low key/high contrast setting - the bigger format will inevitably be lost to either camera shake or the two stop underexposure in the most critical shadow area.

[Brad Bireley]

Why don't you bracket your exposures?

[Gregoyle]

I would be interested to see your results!

[BardParker]

The candle light part of the service is very short- only about 2 minutes. In addition, the candles are lit by ushers on the end of a pew, then each person turns and lights the next person's candle, etc. So the light level is constantly changing throughout the hymn, and it is not until the last verse that everyone raises their candles that the light level is fairly steady. I didn't think this would be so challenging! I shot 2 frames on AEL mode and other 8 in manual at 1/2, 1/4, 1,8 1/15, and 1/30 sec on apertures of f/4 and f/5.6. I was able to sqeeze a small tripod in on the front row of the balcony. All in all, it was a fun exercise and I developed the film in tMax developer for 8:30 at 20dC/68dF following the massive development chart app recommendations. It looks like I got some sharp negs with good contrast when viewing through a 4x loupe. I ordered a V700 scanner from Adorama but it has not arrived yet, so I will scan the negs in a few days and get back to everyone. I guess I need to ask what scanning software and workflow is best as I'm new to scanning...

Thanks,

Kent

[Richard G]

Congratulations. Sounds like you'll have some nice shots. V700 is a great scanner. The Epson software was OK when I got mine a couple of years ago. Most recently I have been using VueScan on which there is a fair bit of information here on RFF and on the VueScan website. There was a recent thread on this here.

[znapper]

I really love film and all, but this is one if the typical situations I would use and recommend a digital slr, newer type with max iso at 6400, best usable ISO would be 3200, so I would meter and shoot at 3200 with a fast lens, no question.

[BardParker]

V700 is on backorder from Adorama.
:-/

Kent

[Richard G]

And mine is sitting in its box at the office unused. If only I could email it to you. The suspense is killing us.