Serious about photography?

[rpilottx]

1. I paid my way through college workiing for the yearbook and student newspaper at Indiana University as a photographer. Then I spent a couple years as a news photographer on a paper in Ohio. I enjoyed it but it did not give me the satisfaction I was looking for.

2. Then, I became a pilot in the USMC followed by a career in federal law enforcement as a Customs pilot. Frankly, photography does not hold a candle to the chase and capture of drug smugglers or other "bad guys". And I earned a pretty good salary at it as well. I have a couple friends who freelance for National Geo and I think I made about the same as a pilot. Money was nice but my primary motivation was the excitement of the "chase". Not to hijack this thread but I read somewhere that 80% of those in law enforcement, search and rescue, aviation, and fire fighting type careers are first born sons (as I am). I wonder if there is a similiar study of those who go into photography or the arts?

3. Don't regret it as I carry a camera when I want. One of the things I did not like about news photography was some of the required photos (like the mayor signing some proclamation) but those are the bread and butter of small town newspapers. I have always enjoyed taking photos of subjects that interested me.

[Roger Hicks]

A lot of coppers here! Again, that's not a job you go into for the money, really. And point fully taken about 'grip and grin' shots.

Edward Bulwer-Lytton said, Talent does what it can, Genius does what it must. I've never thought he got it quite right (or if he did, it's a somewhat generous definition of genius) but I've always felt that way about writing, and to a lesser extent about photography: if I'm going to do them anyway, I might as well make a living out of it. The phrase 'if I'm going to do them anyway' is central: I was never going to do accountancy for the fun of it. Nor did I feel any compulsion to do it. I can however see how (for example) police work could be compelling.

Auld Bob's point is important too. The ultimate counterfactual conditional is that we think we'd be the same person if we'd lived a different life.

Cheers,

R.

[Benjamin Marks]

I worked for a newspaper for about a year as a photographer and found that I liked photography much less when I was compelled to do it for a living. The stress of having to produce a working picture on a deadline took a lot of the pleasure out of the process. So when I decided to do something else, I experienced a very noticeable photographic sense of relief. I do feel that having experienced what I did inoculated me from the regret about which you are asking. I still love photography - I have since before I owned my first camera. When I take on "jobs" now, it is not for money, it is for pleasure. Further, in general I don't take money for photography now because I have enough to live on from my other pursuits and because I prefer the lower stress that comes from a bartered or non-commercial transaction.

Edit: I suppose one definition of luxury is being able to do that which you love without worrying about how you will eat.

Ben

[MC JC86]

Still (hopefully) pretty early on in my life. Attempting to earn a living in photography would have lead to starvation in fairly short order; don't have the eye, the patience, or the talent but I certainly admire those here that do.

I was heavily involved in the photo retail industry for a few years, but got in at the ground floor just as the roof was caving in; so that didn't work out either.

Working in EMS is a lot of fun, even an adrenaline rush at times, so I have no regrets. I've found that keeping photography as a passion the course of which is dictated only by my time and whims makes it far more fun (for me).

[haempe]

I got my 1989 photographers journeyman and worked since as a photographer and lab technician. For me, it was never a passion, always just a job.
Sometimes I hated it really. The way the photographer is viewed by society and the way that photographers see the society, or how photographers deal with each other, I was often contrary.
But a few years ago, after I gave up the drugs and become settled, I found that I need a hobby. And why learn something new when I am firm with analog photography already?
Now I have much joy with my new hobby, even less job satisfaction. I think I'm going to find something else to pay my bills, and I'd rather keep the joy of photography.

Regarding your questions:
I would never again want to become a professional photographer.

[Paul Luscher]

No, not sorry I didn't try to make a living from photography.

Had to face up to the fact my talent level is such that I'd have a hard time trying to make it as a photog--way too many folks much better at it than me.

Thing is, photography is one of those glamor professions--like rock star--which everybody wants to do. And because so many really talented people want to do it, competition is brutal, and very few ever make it...just like all the really talented musicians who never make the big time.

As it is, my chosen profession allows me to live fairly comfortably, buy cameras, and noodle in photography to the best of my ability. Anyway....I got into photography by accident, more or less, after making my career choice, and going through the long and expensive training for it. That's my excuse....

Also, I have the discouraging example of a friend who is a pro photog. She and her significant other (who also makes his living in photography ) are having a terrible time right now--almost lost their house three times to foreclosure, because of financial difficulties. And it's been that way for them for quite a while, which leads me to believe that trying to make a living purely from art can be a very shaky proposition...

Sure, I would love to have made a living in photography.....and maybe even reached the exalted status of a David Douglas Duncan. But I guess I'll go with Elliot Erwitt when he was asked about going into photography as a career these days: "Don't."

[Roger Hicks]

Probably, most people who dream of earning a living from photography underestimate the talent, dedication, hard work and sheer luck that is necessary even to survive. Paul's parallel with rock stars is exact -- unless, perhaps, you're prepared to concentrate on a particular aspect of commercial or advertising photography where chartered accountancy is a closer match; or, as others have said, to do 'grip and grin' pics for the local rag. The glamorous, jet-setting, cutting-edge side of it is very hard indeed to achieve, and many 'big names' who shoot internationally must needs live remarkably modestly in order to feed their photojournalistic habit.

Cheers,

R.

[buzzardkid]

Dear Roger,

my encounter with photography only happened some seven, eight years ago, by chance. I got divorced and decided to get a camera so I could at least document my children growing up while not being around all the time.

Things evolved unexpectedly. I took on a teaching job, my kids came to live with me and I got into photography big time. But, always as a (seriously out of proportions) hobby.

Had I started in my twenties, I would have had a shot at doing whatever I felt like in photography and make a living off it. As kids, bills and responsibilities entered the equasion I probably would have gotten stuck in portraits, weddings and the likes and it would have gotten the best of my motivation for photography very quickly I reckon.

So, I do not regret not having worked in photography and I would not have made more money.

Yet, I do consider turning to photography in the future once the kids have left the house and my focus can be less on income.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by buzzardkid

Dear Roger,

my encounter with photography only happened some seven, eight years ago, by chance. I got divorced and decided to get a camera so I could at least document my children growing up while not being around all the time.

Things evolved unexpectedly. I took on a teaching job, my kids came to live with me and I got into photography big time. But, always as a (seriously out of proportions) hobby.

Had I started in my twenties, I would have had a shot at doing whatever I felt like in photography and make a living off it. As kids, bills and responsibilities entered the equasion I probably would have gotten stuck in portraits, weddings and the likes and it would have gotten the best of my motivation for photography very quickly I reckon.

So, I do not regret not having worked in photography and I would not have made more money.

Yet, I do consider turning to photography in the future once the kids have left the house and my focus can be less on income.

Dear Johan,

Thanks for your reply (and thanks to many others, too, whom I have not thanked enough). Surprisingly (distressingly?) few of the photographers I know have children, or at least, earned a living from photography while their children were growing up. Quite a few have been divorced at least once. I don't think that photography as a career is necessarily good for family life, even for a 2-person family.

Cheers,

R.

[buzzardkid]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

Dear Johan,

Thanks for your reply (and thanks to many others, too, whom I have not thanked enough). Surprisingly (distressingly?) few of the photographers I know have children, or at least, earned a living from photography while their children were growing up. Quite a few have been divorced at least once. I don't think that photography as a career is necessarily good for family life, even for a 2-person family.

Cheers,

R.

Gotta add that a career in journalism is probably the same with regards to that! Which kind of explains my choices regarding photography, I started out being educated as a broadcast journalist but once my oldest arrived I gave up on journalism because a more solid way of life and income were in order. Guess that made me aware of the fact that photography would be the same thing all over again.

[Tompas]

1 - not applicable (anymore)
2 - yes. I worked as a PJ/sports photographer for a local newspaper while going to school; had lots of very different jobs while at and after university, including being assistant political scientist and senior Unix guru and other completely unrelated things; finally going home and succeeding my father in the family business.
3 - no, no regrets. Photography is such a wonderful hobby for me, I'm glad it is not my job.

[ferider]

FWIW:

1 Not applicable.
2 No way.
3 No - I love what I do for a living.

Still I do take photography "seriously". Like cooking, for example, it's fun, complicated and rewarding enough to give me a break from my day job.

Roland.

[f/1,4]

1) No. Did consider it seriously at high school though. And in early university days. Way back in the 1960'. Spent weekends walking the streets with a B/W camera. And countless nights in the darkroom. All the way until sunrise.
2) No. My daytime jobs over the years in larger telecom corporations has provided more income.
3) Not any more. Have photographed all the time and have slowly built up a kit of fairly professional equipment. Analog for 40 years and now digital in parallel. With livelihood and equipment issues out of the way this has left time to focus on my own B/W projects, - for whatever the results might be worth artistically. And time to follow other peoples' work through their exhibitions and books. With hindsight probably the best of both worlds in my case.

[KM-25]

If you would have asked me this about 3 months ago, I would have given a different answer, but times are not only quickly getting back to normal, they are starting to be on par to pre-economic crash levels. Magazine and newspapers assignments up as well as advertising and even stock sales.

So here it goes:

1. There is most likely not any way I could ever know if I could have made more money in another profession other than photography because it is not a job for me, it is a life and lifestyle choice that pays me full time. Asking me this is like asking me if I could have made more money being another person. In the past 7 years of my 20+ year career, I have made a *very* good income, on par with those with masters and PHD degrees in well paid fields.

2. Does not apply to me.

3. No regrets at all, I get to shoot any time I want, what I want in the style I want, even use film and bill it if I want. I get to do photography for my self and never get bored or tired of it. Add to that I *LOVE* the challenge of an assignment, being taken out of my comfort zone, competition, budget challenges, tough to tame people, making stressed clients feel great, getting it right in a team environment and seeing it all from a client's perspective. I like the bidding war, the second guessing who is low balling the job or sale and saying no if it is out of my range, the standing up for my work and the fee it commands, it all just rocks!

I just spent a week in my hi tech 4x4 camper with my wife and even my cat miles away from anyone shooting for my next book project. We actually had 3G reception so we got to take care of business on our iPad-2 out in the boonies, even made a nice stock sale, a solar system charges the pad and our phones.

The Kodachrome Project was great and rough for me at the same time, it nearly killed me financially and I wondered what clients I would have left after I was done. But life is good again and work is great, all my clients are proud of what I did and are happy to see me back.

I would not be nearly as happy doing photography as a hobby and having another job, I simply would have never lived the life I have in doing photography in the first place.

[kipkeston]

Cool thread.

1: I think on a per hour rate, I earn much more as a photog than as a scientist (at the level I'm at) but a lot of paid work can be kind of stressful so I prefer science.

2: Questions one and two are confusing. They are kind of the same question to me.

3: I don't regret science vs photography. I only wish I had more time for personal projects. But don't we all?

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by KM-25

1. There is most likely not any way I could ever know if I could have made more money in another profession other than photography because it is not a job for me, it is a life and lifestyle choice that pays me full time. Asking me this is like asking me if I could have made more money being another person.

. . .

I would not be nearly as happy doing photography as a hobby and having another job, I simply would have never lived the life I have in doing photography in the first place.

That's pretty much how I feel, and is perhaps one definition of 'serious'. Far from the only one -- sure, an amateur can be 'serious' too -- but I was (and still am) interested in how others view it.

It sounds as though you've earned more out of it than I, but then, it sounds like you work harder too. As you say, a lifestyle choice. Once I have enough to live on, my motivation to do things I don't want to do (including trying to peddle my work) declines rapidly.

Cheers,

R.

[Mister E]

I certainly earn more from what I do than I think I could from photography, but I'd love to be able to earn a living doing something I enjoyed.

[_larky]

I wish I could earn money as a photographer, but I'm not interested in taking pictures of the stuff people want to pay for. So, coding pays for my hobby. And as a hobby I get to enjoy it at my own pace.

[Ariefb]

I've been working with camera in all my adult life althou i have degree in life science and MBA. The brutal competition in photography is killing me, and finally made a switch to video-related industry. Last year i moved on to fully digital workflow, shooting VDSLR for music videos, wedding cinemas, and training DVDs. The money i made went into several investments in organic farming. So far it seems like a sustainable scheme, at least for me, my wife and son.

I reserve film photography as pure hobby now.

[emraphoto]

Originally Posted by _larky

I wish I could earn money as a photographer, but I'm not interested in taking pictures of the stuff people want to pay for. So, coding pays for my hobby. And as a hobby I get to enjoy it at my own pace.

you have no idea how similar that whole statement is for me. i have ZERO interest in taking pictures of what pays. it's a bit of a bugger right now. i find it just gets in the way of shooting the way and subject matter i am committed to. it isn't meant as a criticism of news work... those folks work hard in a pool of sharks where collecting payment owed can be a full time job unto itself. but man, i am not into it these days.

i am (possibly naively) focused on a book and a body of work (few complete stories) in the belief that sticking it out will serve me well. developing a respectable list of exhibitions... that sort of thing. in the end i may just go down in a big financial ball of flames but, i am pretty serious.

[emraphoto]

Originally Posted by Ariefb

I've been working with camera in all my adult life althou i have degree in life science and MBA. The brutal competition in photography is killing me, and finally made a switch to video-related industry. Last year i moved on to fully digital workflow, shooting VDSLR for music videos, wedding cinemas, and training DVDs. The money i made went into several investments in organic farming. So far it seems like a sustainable scheme, at least for me, my wife and son.

I reserve film photography as pure hobby now.

the competition AND (should you be in a freelance/agency sort of thing) the editors and outlets that have abandoned the photographers in the process. not all but way too many. i have had people take a damn YEAR to pay me. i sent a complete reportage (photo/text/research) to a magazine that asked me a year later, after a few emails, to 're-file it'?!?! i was asked to put together a portfolio for a BIG outlet. spent days going over it, sent it over and the fella just stopped calling me back or answering my emails

so not only is there THICK competition, the folks that you would assume should be standing in your corner are content to ignore you. even the ones who owe you.

this isn't 'John' beefing, i beefed about 6 months ago. just a 'heads up' i reckon.

[Chris101]

I was a professional photographer in the 1980s. It was exactly like being a rock star except for the drugs, the sex and the money. The rock & roll was the same though, because we had some killer speakers in the studio.

[Ariefb]

Originally Posted by emraphoto

so not only is there THICK competition, the folks that you would assume should be standing in your corner are content to ignore you. even the ones who owe you.

True, i found similar ethics problem here and there. Are photographers too abundant that agency people can simply ignore our value/existence?

[emraphoto]

well, i have had great relations with one of the big wire/image bank groups here. it has been timely and easy. wish i could say that was the norm.

[Bob Ross]

The few times that I got serious and thought about doing photography as a profession, it came down to the fact that I liked the whole process wet and dry and on the professional/commercial side the advice was usually "get a good lab" and don't try to do it yourself kid. The other advice was "if you don't like pleasing others, rather than doing your own thing, go elswhere". I also heard that it was a great way to ruin a perfectly good hobby.
For me it was a good choice to not get involved in the business side of the craft. The scholar side suites me the best and I think it was a good place to be during the digital emergence.
Well, this is the way I see it in my rear view mirror......
Bob