Catastrophic failure with caffenol and Lucky SHD100

[schow]

Well, it was my first time trying to experiment and develop with caffenol. Since I had a couple of cheap rolls of Lucky SHD100, I thought it would be a good test subject. I basically used the first recipe found here: http://www.digitaltruth.com/techdata/caffenol.php

However, I used real drip coffee instead of instant. After all, I was experimenting, right? So I develop for 30min and fixed as usual. Hung it to dry and I saw that the film was completely black and there was nothing there. Scans confirmed this.

So my questions:
1. is there a difference between instant coffee and real coffee when developing in caffenol?

2. What temperature should caffenol be? I pretty much poured in the solution hot out of the maker. Could this have caused the observed phenomena of blank film?

Any thoughts or guidance would help. I'm thinking of just going out to get some instant stuff for the next try.

Thanks
Sherm

[David Goldfarb]

The instant coffee is more concentrated than regular coffee in the formula, so it may be that you just didn't have enough of the developing agent to develop the film.

It's also not clear how you might get more concentrated coffee that would be better for developing film. If you pull a longer shot, the coffee is more bitter, so does that mean you can pull a ristretto to drink, and then get more tannins out of the beans afterward for processing film? Well, it would require some experimentation, I suppose.

[schow]

never thought about the concentrations, per se. I just thought that the coffee would be brewed "regular strength" regardless of volume or instant vs. regular.

either way, it's instant from now on.

[kmack]

The film came out black or just the exposed frames?
Can you see any factory frame numbers / printing on the film?

So far it would seem that the film was very over developed. While I have used neither caffenol or any of the Lucky films I believe the 30min developing time is for the developer at 20C. If you used the coffee at 80C or above that would explain the overdevelopment.

[petronius]

I use to overexpose the film two stops and develop at around 20C for ca. 30 min. I always use instant coffee. This works for me with Acros 100 and Fortepan 400.
http://classicameras.blogspot.com/search/label/Caffenol

[Pherdinand]

if u poured it in right "hot out of the maker", how hot was it, like, 70 degrees? 90?
i mean celsius!
Normal development is at 20 to 23 degrees.
I suspect you overdeveloped the hell out of the poor negative.

If you do not develop enough or at all, and then fix it, it becomes clear. It can become black only if you badly overdevelop it or overexpose it.

[titrisol]

1. Caffenol calls for a lot of coffee, instnat is cheap it is normally made from robusta beans and 6 spoons is not something you would drink
2. Did you add the carbonate first?
3. If there is nothing there then your concentration should have beene xtrtemely low

[RML]

IIRC the difference isn't so much in the coffee being ground or instant but in the sort of beans used. IIRC you should go for arabica coffee. I've used both instant and ground coffee with good results.

Check out my experiences here: http://shardsofphotography.blogspot....film+in+coffee .

[schow]

Hi Folks,
I dug through my garbage a bit to look at those negatives again.
I was a bit mistaken in my details of the film result.
The negatives came out very dark, but they weren't "completely black". Even though the negatives were dark, held against the light they were transparent. No frame numbers, nothing. Like others, I'm starting to think that I overdeveloped especially with the coffee being hot.

Oh well.
Lucky SHD100 was cheap. I'm tempted to buy more of this stuff. but honestly I can find NeopanSS for cheaper and it's nice stuff too. Suits my purposes as a iso100 film. But I really want to give this Lucky stuff one more try. I purchased mine from Freestyle, I think. The only place I know I can get it now is from Ebay. Any suggestions?


Thanks
Sherman

[NickTrop]

Titrisol is spot on. It has to be instant coffee crystals. Your negs were simply underdeveloped because your developer wasn't strong enough because you used regular strength drip coffee. Also, the type of bean plays a factor, but I always thought it should be Robusta beans rather than Arabica, RML, but don't quote me, I'm not sure.

But you don't have to drive yourself crazy. Folgers Instant Coffee Crystals is what most who do this seem to use. Here's a nice tutorial - pictures and everything:

http://photo-utopia.blogspot.com/200...in-coffee.html

[RML]

Nick,

you could be right about the Robusta, actually.

And I have never been able to find Folgers here in Europe, so it may be important for those outside the USA to know what kind of beans are needed.

Also, though you develop in coffee, that doesn't mean you brew yourself a kettle and pour it on your film! Just dissolve it in water at 20 degrees C, with soda.

[titrisol]

The variety makes really no difference, I tried the Folgers, ALDI, and some more uppity ones that claimed to be robuista and all those worked as well. Caffeine is not what develops but the caffeic acid and other quinones present in there, so it acts like a Pyro developer.

There's a few things I thought larter:
1. You dissolve soda first, then the coffe (instant)
2. your solution should be dark and smells like crap
3. there are a few films that just plain do not work well in Caffenol, not sure if lucky is one of them

Originally Posted by NickTrop

Titrisol is spot on. It has to be instant coffee crystals. Your negs were simply underdeveloped because your developer wasn't strong enough because you used regular strength drip coffee. Also, the type of bean plays a factor, but I always thought it should be Robusta beans rather than Arabica, RML, but don't quote me, I'm not sure.

But you don't have to drive yourself crazy. Folgers Instant Coffee Crystals is what most who do this seem to use. Here's a nice tutorial - pictures and everything:

http://photo-utopia.blogspot.com/200...in-coffee.html

[Pherdinand]

NEGS that are UNDERdeveloped will NOT come out BLACK.
He OVERdeveloped the negs. Badly.

Come on, guys.

[Chris101]

I've used regular coffee made from beans which I ground myself. I generally just add 8 and a half grams of sodium carbonate per 500 mL of coffee, and develop for half an hour. AT 20 DEGREES! Doing it in HOT coffee would certainly lead to massive over -development.

[pevelg]

Oh My Goodness!!! Coffee?!?!

I'm thinking I'm going to try this during my summer break. Then I can proudly join the ranks of people developing their own film, even if it be coffee!!!

[titrisol]

Maybe not, coffee stain the film gelatin and develops some silver in the process, but he calimed the negs are dark but no image IIRC

Originally Posted by Pherdinand

NEGS that are UNDERdeveloped will NOT come out BLACK.
He OVERdeveloped the negs. Badly.

Come on, guys.