Main Menu
|
|
The Forums
|
|
Cool Links
|
|
Gallery Links
|
|
 |
Caffenol...What Went Wrong? |
 |
10-02-2008
|
#1
|
|
Registered User
dazedgonebye is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Age: 48
Posts: 3,726
|
Caffenol...What Went Wrong?
First, perhaps I should ask, what is "washing soda?"
__________________
Steve
"And I know now that the cure for my childhood was not to be looked after, as I once believed; it was to look after someone else." ~Philip Norman
Photography Blog
Flickr
Twitter
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#2
|
|
Stewart McBride
Sparrow is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location: Location:
Age: 57
Posts: 4,412
|
It’s not caustic soda, that gives one completely clear negatives………  |
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#3
|
|
Registered User
dazedgonebye is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Age: 48
Posts: 3,726
|
Ok, so apparently "Tide" is caustic soda...'cause I got blank negatives too.
Either that, or 35 years of loading cameras and I'm still flubbing it (not impossible).
__________________
Steve
"And I know now that the cure for my childhood was not to be looked after, as I once believed; it was to look after someone else." ~Philip Norman
Photography Blog
Flickr
Twitter
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#4
|
|
Stewart McBride
Sparrow is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location: Location:
Age: 57
Posts: 4,412
|
I now know the correct one to be sodium carbonate
|
|
|
|
|
maybe its the phosphates? |
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#5
|
|
Registered User
ampguy is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,697
|
maybe its the phosphates?
what about baking soda?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazedgonebye
Ok, so apparently "Tide" is caustic soda...'cause I got blank negatives too.
Either that, or 35 years of loading cameras and I'm still flubbing it (not impossible).
|
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#6
|
|
Stewart McBride
Sparrow is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location: Location:
Age: 57
Posts: 4,412
|
I did ask if sodium bicarbonate would be twice as good, but didn’t get a sensible answer, and apparently in this chemistry one shouldn’t make the coffee with boiling water
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#7
|
|
Canon DSLR Refugee
Double Negative is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,932
|
Break out the mortar and pestle and the vitamin C tabs! 
__________________
Leica M8 & Zeiss Ikon; CV 1,2/35 Nokton, ZM 4/18 Distagon, 2,8/25 Biogon, 2/35 Biogon, 1,5/50 Sonnar and 2/50 Planar, Leica 2,8/90 Elmarit-M
Mamiya 7II; N50mm f/4.5L, N65mm f/4L, N80mm f/4L and N150mm f/4.5L
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#8
|
|
Registered User
dazedgonebye is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Age: 48
Posts: 3,726
|
Ok...so what product, available in the US, will do the trick?
My kingdom for washing soda...or at least for someone who can tell me what the heck it is.
__________________
Steve
"And I know now that the cure for my childhood was not to be looked after, as I once believed; it was to look after someone else." ~Philip Norman
Photography Blog
Flickr
Twitter
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#9
|
|
Trying to find my range
luketrash is offline
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ames, Iowa
Age: 32
Posts: 259
|
You need this
and this
and this
to get this
Last edited by luketrash : 10-02-2008 at 08:55.
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#10
|
|
Film Advocate
shadowfox is offline
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,000
|
Luke, that is the most clear, vivid and illustrative post I've ever seen on film development 
Thanks a lot! (looking for a smily-face icon with thumbs up...) |
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#11
|
|
Registered User
dazedgonebye is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Age: 48
Posts: 3,726
|
I don't believe I have ever seen that Arm and Hammer product in my life...and I do the shopping in the house.
Is it baking soda? Is it laundry detergent?
__________________
Steve
"And I know now that the cure for my childhood was not to be looked after, as I once believed; it was to look after someone else." ~Philip Norman
Photography Blog
Flickr
Twitter
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#12
|
|
Registered User
dazedgonebye is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Age: 48
Posts: 3,726
|
From thelaundrybasket.com....
Apparently, Arm and Hammer super washing soda is 100% sodium carbonate.
That should help.
__________________
Steve
"And I know now that the cure for my childhood was not to be looked after, as I once believed; it was to look after someone else." ~Philip Norman
Photography Blog
Flickr
Twitter
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#13
|
|
Stewart McBride
Sparrow is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location: Location:
Age: 57
Posts: 4,412
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazedgonebye
Ok...so what product, available in the US, will do the trick?
My kingdom for washing soda...or at least for someone who can tell me what the heck it is.
|
I found this after I'd screwed-up mine, if it helps
http://people.rit.edu/andpph/text-coffee.html |
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#14
|
|
Trying to find my range
luketrash is offline
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ames, Iowa
Age: 32
Posts: 259
|
I had to search my entire city to find washing soda. One grocery store (Cub Food) carried it in the area near the laundry detergent.
Back in the old days, people used to add it to their detergent to give it a kick. Present-day, nobody really uses it anymore.
Just us crazy film people and the hotrodders use it to remove rust from car parts with electrolysis.
It's very cheap (under two dollars.)
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#15
|
|
Registered User
cjm is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Santa Ana, CA
Age: 27
Posts: 472
|
I had the same problem. I couldn't fine washing soda anywhere. I eventually discovered that sodium carbonate is also sold as "PH-up" which is used for increasing the PH levels in pools and spas. It is readily available at any pool supply store. I found it at home depot.
PH up ingredients...
Last edited by cjm : 10-02-2008 at 09:11.
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#16
|
|
Stewart McBride
Sparrow is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location: Location:
Age: 57
Posts: 4,412
|
My understanding is that the trick it to get the solution’s Ph high enough to neutralise both the acid in the coffee and the acid produced when the silver reacts with the caffeine during the developing, so lots of stuff should work.
PS Word of caution handling and mixing some alkalines are lethal, always add the alkaline to water, not the other way round they can generate a lot of heat very quickly
Last edited by Sparrow : 10-02-2008 at 09:18.
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#17
|
|
Registered User
dazedgonebye is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Age: 48
Posts: 3,726
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm
I had the same problem. I couldn't fine washing soda anywhere. I eventually discovered that sodium carbonate is also sold as "PH-up" which is used for increasing the PH levels in pools and spas. It is readily available at any pool supply store. I found it at home depot.
PH up ingredients... |
Cool. I'll check my locall HD.
Thanks,
__________________
Steve
"And I know now that the cure for my childhood was not to be looked after, as I once believed; it was to look after someone else." ~Philip Norman
Photography Blog
Flickr
Twitter
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#18
|
|
Trying to find my range
luketrash is offline
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ames, Iowa
Age: 32
Posts: 259
|
I should mention that I did this just to prove I could.
The results were not impressive, and my paterson tank smelled horrible for weeks afterwards and my reels stained brown.
coffee + washing soda = smelly.. like rancid urine smelly.
It's cheaper to use Rodinal than it is to make Caffenol-C.
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#19
|
|
Registered User
David Goldfarb is offline
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 590
|
Washing soda is sodium carbonate. Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate. Caustic soda is sodium hydroxide (lye) and it gets very hot when you add it to water. These things are NOT interchangeable (well, sodium carbonate and sodium hydroxide can both make your developer more alkaline, but the proportions are very different for the same change in pH).
In New York I've found washing soda at supermarkets in Latino neighborhoods. A box of washing soda is way more than you'll use any time soon developing film, so try it in your laundry. It works!
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#20
|
|
Registered User
David Goldfarb is offline
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 590
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by luketrash
It's cheaper to use Rodinal than it is to make Caffenol-C.
|
Yeah, but it's cheaper to make paRodinal than to buy Rodinal (I calculated it at 1/3 the cost). |
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#21
|
|
Registered Abuser
dmr is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Somewhere in Middle America
Posts: 3,170
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazedgonebye
I don't believe I have ever seen that Arm and Hammer product in my life...and I do the shopping in the house.
Is it baking soda? Is it laundry detergent?
|
No, baking soda is sodium bicarbonate.
Washing soda is sodium carbonate.
Any large supermarket should have the Arm & Hammer washing soda. It will be along with detergents and cleaners, usually on the end, with borax and all of that stuff.
Back when I took HS chemistry (I do not want to admit how long ago this was, or why I remember all of this) Tide was essentially a mixture of sodium carbonate and trisodium phosphate. This was right before the "phosphate free" days of the 1970s, and I really don't know what the current formula of any detergents are. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#22
|
|
Registered User
dazedgonebye is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Age: 48
Posts: 3,726
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Goldfarb
Washing soda is sodium carbonate. Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate. Caustic soda is sodium hydroxide (lye) and it gets very hot when you add it to water. These things are NOT interchangeable (well, sodium carbonate and sodium hydroxide can both make your developer more alkaline, but the proportions are very different for the same change in pH).
In New York I've found washing soda at supermarkets in Latino neighborhoods. A box of washing soda is way more than you'll use any time soon developing film, so try it in your laundry. It works!
|
Considering I'm just trying this for the novelty of it, I think a box will amount to a lifetime supply. Yep, it'll go in the laundry so as not to be wasted.
__________________
Steve
"And I know now that the cure for my childhood was not to be looked after, as I once believed; it was to look after someone else." ~Philip Norman
Photography Blog
Flickr
Twitter
|
|
|
|
 |
|
10-02-2008
|
#23
|
|
Dad Photographer
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Age: 54
Posts: 12,906
|
Are you guys suggesting that no other "chemicals" would be needed for film developing? Such ingredients would be approved by my wife!
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#24
|
|
Registered User
Benjamin Marks is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,164
|
You can make Sodium Carbonate out of Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda) by heating the baking soda in a pan. Watch out, though, it's messy -- little geysers of steam blowing baking soda all over.
Ben
__________________
<a href='http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=1566'>My Gallery</a>
|
|
|
|
|
10-02-2008
|
#25
|
|
Stewart McBride
Sparrow is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location: Location:
Age: 57
Posts: 4,412
|
Raid, you would also need vinegar solution as a stop, and a fixer, and the fixer is difficult sea water was used in the old days but it takes ages i understand, never tried it
|
|
|
|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Display Modes |
 Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 18:30. |
|
|
