I hate the comments of judges!

[ornate_wrasse]

A group of ladies I shoot with submitted images for judging so that the photos to be shown at an exhibit we are doing at City Hall in January could be selected. The three judges are all professional photographers. All of them rated the images and commented on them. Today, at the meeting announcing which images would be in the exhibit, we were able to see how the images were rated and to see the comments they made.

Two of the images I submitted for judging were taken with rangefinders, one of them with the Mamiya 6 and one of them with my Leica M6. The image taken with the Mamiya was shot using Ektachrome E100VS. No post processing was done to the image. Here it is:



The judges made a comment about the white balance of the image, as if it was shot in RAW and I had the white balance wrong. UGH! Comments like that irk me. Of course, they didn't know that it was shot using a very saturated slide film.

Another image, taken with my Leica M6 and using Velvia film, received very low scores and will not be in the exhibit. The judges commented that it was overly processed!!

It's comments like the above that make me want to kill those judges!! Both of the images, BTW, have received numerous compliments from others.

I've never been one to enter my images in contests, it's now been aptly demonstrated to me why I'm sticking to my guns, even though this was technically speaking NOT a contest.

Ellen

[Todd.Hanz]

Now that's funny! Not really, but it is!

Todd

[GaryLH]

I wonder how old the judges were... Or did just assume everything that was submitted these days are digital.

The 6x6 from the Mamiya should have at least raised the question .. Was it film since not a lot of people use square format in digital!

I would probably be pissed too

Gary

[back alley]

i've had comments here about over sharpening my images...i don't even use the sharpen tool...ever!

[muser53]

Ellen, These "judges"should be embarrassed that they were unable to determine that the photos you submitted were shot on film. Anyone with a critical eye should be able to differentiate between the two media. As the 20 somethings I know would say Epic Fail on their part.

[Jamie123]

To be fair, color balance is not a digital thing. Shooting slides doesn't mean white balance is always 'right'. Before digital they probably would've just complained that you didn't use the appropriate filter. Same goes for the Velvia. It is overprocessed in their opinion no matter whether you used film or digital. Choosing a saturated film is also a process.

Of course they probably thought you were using digital but I wonder, did you submit prints or digital files? And if you submitted prints, were they Ilfochrom prints of your slides?

Getting refused is always rough and I understand that you're hurt but you still should be able to take criticism. Look at it this way, either your pictures weren't good enough for the exhibit or they weren't right for it. If you're certain that they're good then you just learned that this is not an exhibit where your kind of pictures are appreciated. Not the end of the world.

[greyelm]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Judging something like this will always be a subjective assessment unless there is a defined standard for comparison, and there never will be. I wouldn't submit pictures for judging for that reason

[taskoni]

Agree with Jamie's comment above. And of course there's not only processing. This picture hardly will go thru and judges and contests, at least to the those where I am submitting my photos...


I don't mean to offend you, just my 2 cents.


Regards,

Boris

[Phantomas]

I'm judging a photo competition this week. I'm sure I'll get plenty of comments how I'm wrong, don't see, don't know photography etc. Whatever, the photos I like will win. The rest can take their complaints and... practice taking better photos

[Highway 61]

What I would immediatly say about the photo shot with the Mamiya is that the lighting is "flat", and the composition, not well balanced (the virtual horizon line is exactly at the center of the image, and the frame seems quite empty).

Using the square format for landscapes can be done, but it requires a lot of effort to fill the frame so that there is something to "read" in the photo, and some dynamics in it (unless the purpose is to meaningly shoot a series of "empty" landscapes, this is quite a trend nowadays, sort of...).

I don't mean to offend you, either. You probably like this photograph because it reminds you a nice journey or something ; just for that, it's valuable enough to your eyes, but might not be so to others'.

But if the judges only spoke of processing, not of composing, that was a very uninteresting contest anyway, so, don't have any regrets.

[dct]

Originally Posted by Jamie123

[...]
Of course they probably thought you were using digital but I wonder, did you submit prints or digital files? And if you submitted prints, were they Ilfochrom prints of your slides?
[...]

This is an important detail because it may explain why they didn't realize they are looking at film shots.

[Highway 61]

Originally Posted by GWT

I don't think Ellen was looking for anymore critique.

Okay, so this is a remarkable photograph, and the judges were wrong, and Ellen is right to want to kill'em, and all photo contests are crap nobody with good photographic taste and shooting with rangefinders should even bother to think of.

[Roger Hicks]

About 15 years ago, we belonged to a photographic club in Kent. Frances entered a club competition, were the prints were judged anonymously (i.e. we knew who the judges were, but they didn't know who the photographers were). She came first, second and fourth. She reckoned she'd made her point, and therefore didn't enter again.

She did however enter a county-wide competition, where she was marked down because (to quote the judge) "I don't know how this was done, so I'm going to give it 15/20 instead of 18/20 or even 20/20." (It was brush-coated liquid emulsion on heavy rag paper, hand coloured). She still got an Honourable Mention but she never bothered to enter that competition again, either.

I've judged quite a few competitions, mostly for PIC magazine. There are three categories; no-hopers, possibles and good. If you have three judges, they are usually unanimous about 99% of the no-hopers, but after that, especially at the borders between the three categories, there's a LOT less agreement. Competitions are often more about the judges than the judged. Once the judged know more than the judges, all bets are off.

"No-hopers", incidentally, are normally judged as the ones we'd throw out if we'd taken them. Yes, you CAN use any 'fault' (focus, funny colour, tilted horizons, trees growing out of heads...) creatively, but you can generally tell when someone has tried to use them creatively and when they've just got it wrong.

Cheers,

R.

[doolittle]

I've renamed the camera club in my area the photoshop club:

I once entered an infrared photo and the judge said this was a poor attempt at an infrared look in photoshop and that infrared photos don't look like that

[DamenS]

If you want to "kill" the judges for their comments, you probably shouldn't enter any more photo competitions - your emotional investment is possible too high and your expectations slightly askew. I would not anticipate receiving comments from the judges with which you concur in, well in ANY artistic competition really (whether local or international). You need to have a thick-skin and staunch self-belief to have other people (some/many of whom may be barely qualified and competent) to pass judgement on your work, so it might not be worth putting yourself through if it is going to upset you to this degree.

PS. James123 has made some valid and astute points as regards white balance/processing and I like the way he would frame the "rejection" in his mind.

[Highway 61]

Originally Posted by GWT

I feel that Ellen just was wanting to sound off, she felt frustrated and was possibly looking for some empathy from other RFF members.

Probably, but since she uploaded one of the photos in question here, we can't help with commenting the photo too I'm afraid.

[daveleo]

Ellen, I know what you are saying.
I can never figure why people think what they do about some of my pictures, and they say the silliest (incorrect) things about them.
I also find that the sequence that people view pictures effects their feelings for them. The preceding images kind of set their minds a certain way, and they stumble over interpreting the one they are looking at.

Then again, some people (and "judges") are just incompetent

[DtheG]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

There are three categories; no-hopers, possibles and good. If you have three judges, they are usually unanimous about 99% of the no-hopers, but after that, especially at the borders between the three categories, there's a LOT less agreement. Competitions are often more about the judges than the judged. Once the judged know more than the judges, all bets are off.

I'd agree that a divide by three rule can be applied to most things. Though I would add that outstanding quality, if there is any, does stand out!

My method. Some things are obviously bad, some things stand out as having some merit, between is the indifferent. Sort into three piles; then sort each pile into three; Take a second lookpaiwise and adjust across the borderline. Occasionally you may discover something that really is in the wrong pile, Merge the nine into seven, into five, and back into three.

[jesse1dog]

In a completely different field from photography I was contemplating entering a national competeition until I heard two judges talking - 'no, I agree with you, it isn't a particularly good display but he has been entering and trying over the years, so I think it was his turn to get a 'Gold Medal'!' After that I've never entered any competition other than to increase the entries for 'Bread Making' at the local village annual competition - I've had two 1sts and a 2nd in the last three years! So relax, have a laugh!

jesse

[haempe]

Originally Posted by photomoof

You have figured out what we all do sooner or later -- the only "judges" worth bothering with are the ones with money in their pockets to buy your work.

Idiots with money in their pockets are the kind of people I would listen than last when it comes to criticism of my pictures ...
They shall buy or shut up.

[Dylan Hope]

I have to ask, why did repeat the gear used? It put a strange emphasis on the camera in my mind as though the use of the Leica and Mamiya should inherently earn more appreciation from the judges, even if that's not what your intention - it's late and I'm headed off to bed so that might be why I'm reading it that way.
I can see where the judges are coming from, the image could be interpreted as 'cold', but unlike the judges I think it looks fine as it is and if they dismissed your photo based solely on that then I'm as incredulous as you

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by DtheG

I'd agree that a divide by three rule can be applied to most things. Though I would add that outstanding quality, if there is any, does stand out!

My method. Some things are obviously bad, some things stand out as having some merit, between is the indifferent. Sort into three piles; then sort each pile into three; Take a second lookpaiwise and adjust across the borderline. Occasionally you may discover something that really is in the wrong pile, Merge the nine into seven, into five, and back into three.

Very true. I was oversimplifying, but then again, with three judges who knew one another, the PIC judging tended to be quite smooth.

And, as you say, "outstanding quality, if there is any, does stand out!"

Cheers,

R.

[jsrockit]

I generally find that when people focus on the technical, they don't get, don't like, or don't want to talk about the content of the photo.

[Highway 61]

Originally Posted by GWT

“We cannot always control our thoughts, but we can control our words" - Jane Fonda

"When you have the choice to be right or be kind, always choose being kind" - Wayne Dyer

Okay for the second quote ; but re. the first one, I don't think that I didn't control my words, nor was unpolite with Ellen. This is a photo forum so we discuss some photos and make comments based on what has been explained by the OP, that's all.

The point is : how strange it is to hear that the judges haven't accepted this photo because of some WB problems only, because this is fully secondary when you obviously think of what makes this photo not being a great one.

And - we're looking at, and commenting, a casual landscape photography, not what is in somebody's heart and soul. So, we can be sincere and write what we think here I guess.

Might I not be Anglo-Saxon enough ?

[haempe]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

I generally find that when people focus on the technical, they don't get, don't like, or don't want to talk about the content of the photo.

This is so true (at least for professional photographers) and noteworthy.