Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Rangefinder Forum > Image Processing: Darkroom / Lightroom / Film > Film / Developing / Chemistry

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

Candlelight Church Service--what film and developer?
Old 12-23-2012   #1
BardParker
Registered User
 
BardParker is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tyler, Texas
Posts: 163
Candlelight Church Service--what film and developer?

I want to photograph the end of our Christmas eve service from the balcony at church during the singing of Silent Night. The lights will be out and everyone will be holding candles. I am going to use my Mamiya 7 with 65mm lens as the leaf shutter is nearly silent and manual winding very quiet. Not enough room for a tripod, so I will be using a monopod. I have the following films available: Tri-X, TMax 400, Arista EDU Ultra 400, Ilford XP-2, Ilford HP-5+, and Ilford Delta 3200.

My developers on hand from a recent Freestyle order include Arista Premium (F76+); rodinal; tmax developer; and HC-110. I'm fairly new to developing but have had good results with Arista Premium developer and rodinal. Have not used the others yet.

I am leaning toward Tri-X or HP5+ pushed to 800-1600 in the Arista Premium developer; or Ilford Delta 3200 @ 1600 in TMax developer.

I would like to print at 11x14 or 16x20.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Kent
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-23-2012   #2
oftheherd
Registered User
 
oftheherd's Avatar
 
oftheherd is offline
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,817
Before you decide, get someone to hold a candle like will be used and meter. I would guess you want faces, so meter the face of your subject. Remember you will be using mostly light from behind anyone whose face is turned towards you. Guessing the light for backgrounds, that is, anything else in the church is going to be guess work. All that is from memory of when I used to do a fair amount of available light. I haven't really done any in quite a while. Take several shots and try bracketing with both shutter and aperture if you have the time. If not, only aperture. Some of the shots should be what you want.

As to film, I used to use Tri-X, but then there was no ASA 3200 b/w film. Now that there is ISO 3200 film, if you are used to it, I would probably go for that for 3200. If you're only going 1600, which will work also, then I would go for Tri-X, since I used to get better results pushing Tri-X than Ilford HP5. YMMV.

Unless you are looking for b/w results, you might be surprised what color film will get you.
__________________
<a href='http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=50'>My Gallery</a>
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-23-2012   #3
Richard G
Registered User
 
Richard G's Avatar
 
Richard G is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: 37,47 S
Posts: 3,601
Kodak's existing light table suggests 400 ASA 1/15 f2 for close ups of faces lit by candlelight. Can the monopod be leant against the choir balcony?
__________________
Richard
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-23-2012   #4
BardParker
Registered User
 
BardParker is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tyler, Texas
Posts: 163
Yes, the monopod can be braced against the balcony rail. I will be in the back of the church and people will be facing the alter, so will not see much of their faces; only the backs and tops of heads as they hold their candles. There will probably be about 400 people in the sanctuary.

Kent
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-23-2012   #5
Livesteamer
Registered User
 
Livesteamer is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Winston Salem North Carolina
Posts: 1,036
I would suggest your fastest film. I did this several years ago and got some lovely shots on Fuji color 400 film but I was using a Noctilux wide open. Good Luck and Enjoy. Joe
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-23-2012   #6
VinceC
Registered User
 
VinceC's Avatar
 
VinceC is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,968
Why not a full tripod? Combine that with any of the 400 speed films for maximum tones. Didn't specify max f/stop. Also, candlelight tends to be very forgiving because different parts of the scene are properly exposed depending on exposure time. Be very cautious with even a spot meter. You don't want to meter the candle flame but rather the people.
__________________
Vince
My Gallery

Nikon S2, S3, S3-2000, SP, SP-2005 / Kiev 2a

Biogon 21/4.5; CV 21/4; CV 25/4; CV 85/3.5; the following Nikkors: 2.8cm/3.5; 3.5cm/1.8 (1956 and 2005 versions); 5cm/1.4; 8.5cm/2; 10.5cm/2.5; 13.5cm/3.5
Soviet lenses: Orion 28/6; Jupiter-12 35/2.8; Helios-103 50/1.8; Jupiter-8 50/2
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-23-2012   #7
kokoshawnuff
Registered User
 
kokoshawnuff's Avatar
 
kokoshawnuff is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 577
TriX pushed to 1600 works wonderfully with f76+, but depending on your light Delta pushed to 6400 in Tmax might be more appropriate
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-23-2012   #8
Richard G
Registered User
 
Richard G's Avatar
 
Richard G is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: 37,47 S
Posts: 3,601
I don't think metering will help much. I don't know about development, but too much contrast and losing detail in the shadows will be a problem. Something of the church itself in the background would be very important for a nice shot. Can you use a point and shoot to get an idea of the effect of different settings? Bracketing will be worthwhile. With the camera stable I would certainly try 1/4s, 1/2s and even 1s. Do keep notes and post the results. We'll all learn something.
__________________
Richard
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-23-2012   #9
ColSebastianMoran
Registered User
 
ColSebastianMoran's Avatar
 
ColSebastianMoran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,123
Please show us the results!
__________________
Col. Sebastian Moran, ret. (not really)
Today I'm using Nikon & Sony NEX digital, Nikon & Contax/Yashica SLRs, and Black Yashica RFs.
Where did all these cameras come from?
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-23-2012   #10
Livesteamer
Registered User
 
Livesteamer is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Winston Salem North Carolina
Posts: 1,036
If it is fully dark in the church and there is only candle light it is going to be very low light. You would have trouble getting the church in the photo. With 400 speed at f1.0 I think my shutter speed was only about 1/30. Aim down a row of people holding candles, focus on the face of the first candle holder and I bet you'll get some nice photos. You will mostly get candles and faces altho a wide angle shot of the whole congregation holding their candles up is lovely too. I just used the meter in the M6 and it worked out well. Joe
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-23-2012   #11
swoop
Registered User
 
swoop's Avatar
 
swoop is offline
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New York City
Age: 32
Posts: 1,722
3200 f2 1/30
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-23-2012   #12
Fawley
Registered User
 
Fawley is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 316
Pushing Trix gets you only marginally more shadow detail and the candles will appear as bright specs whether you push or not. I would try Delta 3200 at full rating and developed in Microphene. I would give more development than normal to try and bring out a bit of midtone.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-23-2012   #13
oceanpriest
Registered User
 
oceanpriest is offline
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 29
use flash? bruce gilden's style
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-24-2012   #14
Peter_S
Registered User
 
Peter_S is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Styria & Vienna (Austria); Tromsø (Norway)
Posts: 477
Quote:
Originally Posted by swoop View Post
3200 f2 1/30
+1.
Thats pretty much what I do when it gets dark. Delta 3200 at ASA3200 (in DD-X though) or slightly pushed, max aperture, 1/30.
__________________
Bessa III | Contax T & T3
Fuji X-E2
Nikon Coolscan 8000ED

FS: Zeiss ZM Sonnar C & Fuji XF 27mm (Class.).

www.ps-photo.net

Voigtländer Photographer
Contaxg.com

  Reply With Quote

Old 12-24-2012   #15
BardParker
Registered User
 
BardParker is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tyler, Texas
Posts: 163
The candles will only be lit during the singing of the last hymn. Silent Night is a short hymn with only 3 stanzas and 4 verses, so I will only have time for one roll max (10 frames). No time for point and shoot but i will try. The church pews are not deep enough for a tripod but I might be able to improvise. The church will be full and I will be sitting with my family, so I really won't be able to get up and walk around. Mamiya 7 lens open up to f/4 maximum aperture. I certainly welcome and appreciate all the great advice on this forum. Will take notes and report back!

Merry Christmas,
Kent
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-24-2012   #16
Gregoyle
Registered User
 
Gregoyle is offline
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 193
Since the 65mm lens only goes to f/4, you are going to need all the speed you can get. I'd say something at 3200 at least. Thinking about it though, even that might not be enough. I'd say either Tri-X with 1:100 Rodinal stand/semi-stand or Delta 3200 in TMax developer. Maybe even try a roll of either at 6400.

-Greg
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-24-2012   #17
grapejohnson
scott kessler
 
grapejohnson's Avatar
 
grapejohnson is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: altoona, pennsylvania
Posts: 481
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanpriest View Post
use flash? bruce gilden's style
Laughed out loud at this

Why don't you just bracket and use and entire roll? You have the entire length of the song, might as well try a few different things to make sure you get it right.
__________________
unintentional thread killer
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-24-2012   #18
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
 
sevo is offline
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 4,650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregoyle View Post
Since the 65mm lens only goes to f/4, you are going to need all the speed you can get.
Well, the fastest film is Delta 3200, whose low key speed is around 1600, no matter what you do - pushing will gain speed in the mid tones and highlights, at the cost of a contrast increase, but it can't do much to the shadow sensitivity. And boosting the highlights is not what you need with that lighting. With tripod, expose Delta for 1600 or even less - and use compensating development to bring down the contrast even more.

If it is impossible to bring/place a tripod, I'd take a different camera/lens. It is hard to beat any modern APS-C or up digital in candle-light conditions. And even 35mm Delta exposed at 1000-1600 with a f/1.4 lens, hand-held, will do much better in that low key/high contrast setting - the bigger format will inevitably be lost to either camera shake or the two stop underexposure in the most critical shadow area.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-24-2012   #19
Brad Bireley
Registered User
 
Brad Bireley is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The Mountains of Northcentral Pennsylvania
Age: 59
Posts: 670
Why don't you bracket your exposures?
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-26-2012   #20
Gregoyle
Registered User
 
Gregoyle is offline
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 193
I would be interested to see your results!
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-27-2012   #21
BardParker
Registered User
 
BardParker is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tyler, Texas
Posts: 163
The candle light part of the service is very short- only about 2 minutes. In addition, the candles are lit by ushers on the end of a pew, then each person turns and lights the next person's candle, etc. So the light level is constantly changing throughout the hymn, and it is not until the last verse that everyone raises their candles that the light level is fairly steady. I didn't think this would be so challenging! I shot 2 frames on AEL mode and other 8 in manual at 1/2, 1/4, 1,8 1/15, and 1/30 sec on apertures of f/4 and f/5.6. I was able to sqeeze a small tripod in on the front row of the balcony. All in all, it was a fun exercise and I developed the film in tMax developer for 8:30 at 20dC/68dF following the massive development chart app recommendations. It looks like I got some sharp negs with good contrast when viewing through a 4x loupe. I ordered a V700 scanner from Adorama but it has not arrived yet, so I will scan the negs in a few days and get back to everyone. I guess I need to ask what scanning software and workflow is best as I'm new to scanning...

Thanks,

Kent
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-27-2012   #22
Richard G
Registered User
 
Richard G's Avatar
 
Richard G is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: 37,47 S
Posts: 3,601
Congratulations. Sounds like you'll have some nice shots. V700 is a great scanner. The Epson software was OK when I got mine a couple of years ago. Most recently I have been using VueScan on which there is a fair bit of information here on RFF and on the VueScan website. There was a recent thread on this here.
__________________
Richard
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-27-2012   #23
znapper
Registered User
 
znapper's Avatar
 
znapper is offline
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 167
I really love film and all, but this is one if the typical situations I would use and recommend a digital slr, newer type with max iso at 6400, best usable ISO would be 3200, so I would meter and shoot at 3200 with a fast lens, no question.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-27-2012   #24
BardParker
Registered User
 
BardParker is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tyler, Texas
Posts: 163
V700 is on backorder from Adorama.
:-/

Kent
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-27-2012   #25
Richard G
Registered User
 
Richard G's Avatar
 
Richard G is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: 37,47 S
Posts: 3,601
And mine is sitting in its box at the office unused. If only I could email it to you. The suspense is killing us.
__________________
Richard
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 14:35.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.