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Unopened M6 classic...too good to be true?
Old 01-11-2013   #1
SYD_TRIBE
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Unopened M6 classic...too good to be true?

Hi

Theres a unopened M6 classic (serial 1677xxx), still in its original shrink wrap so never opened for sale locally.

I think serial nbr is 1985 manufacture so nearly 30 years old unopened apparently...too good to be true? What should I look out for if I took a punt and bought it?
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Old 01-12-2013   #2
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There are people who have kept Leicas unwrapped as 'collectibles' so it is probably genuine, but a camera that has sat unused for 30 years will almost certainly need serviced because the factory lubricants will have hardened from age and non-use. Unless you absolutely MUST have a 'new' leica M6, it will likely be cheaper to buy a nice used one...since these 'new in box' ones always sell for way too much money.
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Old 01-12-2013   #3
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well possible, if the price is right, jump on this..
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Old 01-12-2013   #4
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Machines are made to be used. Premium cost is misdirection of funds to which initial service cost added and risk of other consequence of disuse spoiling experience later. I would have zero interest in this.
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Old 01-12-2013   #5
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Factor in a full service. If it's never been open I'd like to see it unwrapped before buying in case of water damage etc.
The M6 is IMO the best M however 'like new' ones that have been lightly used and serviced do turn up for around 700 euro if you are patient so I wouldn't spend a lot more than that!
Prices have dropped quite a bit lately.
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Old 01-12-2013   #6
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Are you planning to use it or will it be a shelf queen? If you plan on using it, I would say the same as everyone else. Its probably not worth it since you will have to have it serviced before you can use it. A ready to shoot, really good-excellant working condition M6 classic can be had for under $1000US if you look hard enough. So if the price is more then say $800US, I'd pass.

If you are worried that it might not be new, and can inspect it. I think aside from cosmetics, the easiest way to check for use is to shine a flashlight on the shutter curtains, see if there is any wear marks on them, also shine your flashlight into the take up spool, prolonged use of film leaves a white powdery residue on the inside of the plastic prongs. People dont tend to clean the inside of the take up spool, as you really cant see the residue unless you shine a flashlight in there. Im sure there are plenty of other ways to check as well, but those are the two I can think of off hand.
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Old 01-12-2013   #7
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Thanks all, indeed planned to use it so will leave it for someone else and look for a pre loved m6 original or TTL instead, thanks again
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Old 01-12-2013   #8
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They used to shrink-wrap Leicas? The couple of new ones I have bought were just in a box.
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Old 01-12-2013   #9
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If I had the spare cash, I wouldn't mind buying it and have it serviced with a CLA and an MP finder. Only because the camera is made in the same year I was born and then I'd be the first and only owner. That's kinda cool...
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Old 01-12-2013   #10
David Hughes
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Hi,

A lightly used second-hand one would probably be better and cheaper that a pre-loved one.

If they can't be honest and say used or second-hand then I'd wonder what else they are omitting in the description.

Regards, David
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Old 01-12-2013   #11
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Shrink wrap??..... I don't think so. I agree with Chris though that you should be suspect of the lubricants.
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Old 01-12-2013   #12
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I totaly agree with you, I've seen many mint M4-P bodies with fogged VFs but accurate shutter speeds.
Olden! One of my all time favorite camera stores.
I remember the display cases during the 90s full of mint IIIf/IIIg, black M2, Plaubel 69W proshift, Nikon F/F2 bodies, a M6 Ein Stuck set... but never saw a new M4 body on display. Darn, I should have asked.

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The M6 was not shrink wrapped from my limited experience, I have bought 4 new ones, 2 in the first year of production, and 2 in the last couple of years of production.

I do not however see why the synthetic lubricants in an M6 would gum up to the level that the camera needs service. I bought two M4's from OLDEN which were new, right before they closed, the only problem which needed service was gassing from the seals into the finder.

Leica, unlike Nikon, does have a reputation for bad lubrication so everyone may be right. Unless you know the conditions of storage it is a crapshoot.

Why not buy a recent [used] M7 which needs no service? My two early M6's were sold, the meters in those cameras were problematic for me, turned me off Leica for years (until I bought two milleniums).
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Old 01-12-2013   #13
Peter Wijninga
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What is the median price for a 'new' 'never used' M6 Millennium?
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Old 01-12-2013   #14
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Collectors shtink wrap cameras in some countries. These cameras are not meant to be used.
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Old 01-12-2013   #15
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I would smell a rat with the shrink wrapping, especially if it is being implied that the camera has never been opened, which it must have been to shrink wrap it. It means you won't be able to inspect it, so unless it comes with a warranty I'd pass and get one you know works.
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Old 01-12-2013   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V-12 View Post
I would smell a rat with the shrink wrapping, especially if it is being implied that the camera has never been opened, which it must have been to shrink wrap it. It means you won't be able to inspect it, so unless it comes with a warranty I'd pass and get one you know works.
I imagine the box is shrink wrapped, not the camera.
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Old 01-12-2013   #17
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When did Leica shrink wrap boxes? I have never bough a new Leica in a shrink wrapped box.
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Old 01-12-2013   #18
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[quote=Chriscrawfordphoto;2050567]There are people who have kept Leicas unwrapped as 'collectibles' so it is probably genuine, but a camera that has sat unused for 30 years will almost certainly need serviced because the factory lubricants will have hardened from age and non-use. Unless you absolutely MUST have a 'new' leica M6, it will likely be cheaper to buy a nice used one...since these 'new in box' ones always sell for way too much money.[/QUOT

CLA will be required.

second is very important. The camera may have the zinc corrosion bubbles which you will not see until opening.

what happens to rubber shutters rolled up for decades? I have no idea, but probably nothing good.
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Old 01-12-2013   #19
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Apparently the Posters on this Forum have never purchased a Leica M of any vintage that has just sat. Finding problems before one even puts a battery in the camera or checks the shutter speeds is ridiculous.
Simply take the camera out of the box, open and inspect the battery port for corrosion and then install anew battery.
If all the speeds check out and the meter is working, it's good to go.
I would be on it in a flash for a reasonable price, maybe 1 or 2 hundred above market. My M6 Classic 0.85 sat in a guy's safe for over 15 years basically unused before I purchased it about 10 years ago, it worked then and still does with no problems or service. It came with everything including the original purchase receipt!-Dick
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Old 01-12-2013   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardB View Post
Apparently the Posters on this Forum have never purchased a Leica M of any vintage that has just sat. Finding problems before one even puts a battery in the camera or checks the shutter speeds is ridiculous.
Simply take the camera out of the box, open and inspect the battery port for corrosion and then install anew battery.
If all the speeds check out and the meter is working, it's good to go.
I would be on it in a flash for a reasonable price, maybe 1 or 2 hundred above market. My M6 Classic 0.85 sat in a guy's safe for over 15 years basically unused before I purchased it about 10 years ago, it worked then and still does with no problems or service. It came with everything including the original purchase receipt!-Dick
I've purchased 4 new Leicas, and all of them had their battery in a package, not in the camera, so checking for corrosion probably wouldn't be necessary, or helpful to the original poster. I'm sure other RFF members have purchased a new Leica or two as well.
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Old 01-12-2013   #21
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sounds like shrink-wrapping may be standard practice for collectibles.

However, I would wonder if the shrink-wrapping would not only seal moisture out, but seal moisture inside --> bad for the camera.
How will you know if you don't open it?

sort of a damned-if-you-do (open it: lose value?) and damned-if-you-don't (open it: could be corroded or fake) situation.
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Old 01-12-2013   #22
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Quote:
I have never seen a Leica M6 shrink wrapped, they are always opened and inspected in the country of sale and aplicable warranty cards placed in the box.



I have visited many major collectors in the decades I have collected, and have never seen a shrink wrapped collectible except at Adorama during the '90s, that is why collectors found it so funny. Collectors do odd things, like visit their valuable collections at bank vaults, but shrink wrap, no. It would totally defeat the point of owning beautiful things, kind of like putting plastic on furniture you can't afford.

Collecting is partly about bragging rights, not pointing out you can't afford to collect.

Salesmen would offer to unwrap the camera only if you were "serious." Of course all that has changed, Adorama is now more modern, but I miss those old grumpy guys.
So you think the actual camera is shrink wrapped? Interesting. I assumed it was the box.
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Old 01-12-2013   #23
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Like with anything else, research what you're buying and decide if the premium is worth it to you.

If you go for it, check it out thoroughly when you get your hands on it and test it with a couple of rolls of film. If everything's good, just use and enjoy it. If not, have it serviced.

I'd love to buy a brand new M4 or M6. If it needs to be serviced, eh?, I get it serviced. Even if it is new, it is still old. Always plan for some extra expenses when dealing with older cameras, regardless of how well kept they might be. If thy don't need anything, then you're ahead of the game.

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Old 01-12-2013   #24
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Old 01-12-2013   #25
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In the old days if a New, old stock, Leica body carried USA warranty, Leica would performe a CLA for free, things changed when people start sending used cameras with blanc cards demanding service and bashing leicas against car doors - remember the 80s/90s passport ads?
Funny, I remember the shrink wrapped cameras + the old guy that ran the used camera dept. at Adorama.
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Old 01-12-2013   #26
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Good morning all, surprised to see the amount of feedback on this topic. As mentioned before, I'll look for a pre-loved (by which I mean used) M6 original or TTL because it does seem too good to be true and indeed most opinion above seems to recommend against buying it.

I visited the shop last weekend and looked at the box, it seemed the real deal but I'm a total novice and don't want any surprises when I open the box. URL here

http://www.cameras.net.au/secondhand.php
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Old 01-12-2013   #27
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Beware that the early Wetzlars had serious problems with their electronics and had to go back to Leica for repair. The repair can be costly. IMHO I do not see the advantage of an unused M6 to an LN- especially if the unused is more money and the shutter has not been fired in 30 years.
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Old 01-12-2013   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlouzan View Post
In the old days if a New, old stock, Leica body carried USA warranty, Leica would performe a CLA for free, things changed when people start sending used cameras with blanc cards demanding service and bashing leicas against car doors - remember the 80s/90s passport ads?
Funny, I remember the shrink wrapped cameras + the old guy that ran the used camera dept. at Adorama.
Old days? I purchased an early NOS M7 with pre MP .58 finder from an authorized dealer for just over $2000 in 2011. I sent the Passport card to Leica and it's covered for three years.
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Old 01-12-2013   #29
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I'm talking about sending a M2 or M4 body, under warranty, to Northvale in 1998.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingqueenknave View Post
Old days? I purchased an early NOS M7 with pre MP .58 finder from an authorized dealer for just over $2000 in 2011. I sent the Passport card to Leica and it's covered for three years.
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Old 01-12-2013   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlouzan View Post
I'm talking about sending a M2 or M4 body, under warranty, to Northvale in 1998.
That said, still.
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Old 01-12-2013   #31
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Quote:
Adorama used to shrink wrap what they thought were valuable cameras, it was kind of a running joke in the collecting world.

I have never seen a collector shrink wrap cameras -- but I have only known US and EU collectors.
Someone here posted about visiting a camera store in Japan where he tried to take a look at a camera that was shrink wrapped. He then was told that cameras stay like that.
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Old 01-12-2013   #32
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Couple of years ago I bought NIB old stock Ricoh KR10x to make a gift. It worked right out of box without any issues. Now you realize why rangefinders demised in front of SLRs?
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Old 01-12-2013   #33
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As for it needing immediate service, I got my mint early M6 Classic a year ago and have never had a moments problem with it.

It came with the inner and outer boxes, strap, original promotional sticker, and manual. FWIW, I wasn't looking for mint it just turned out that way.

It had not been used in nearly 30 years but has worked like a charm: no mechanical or electrical issues whatsoever. To read many of the comments here, I should have expected to spend hundreds extra on a broken, yet mint, machine.
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Old 01-12-2013   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bellayr View Post
Beware that the early Wetzlars had serious problems with their electronics and had to go back to Leica for repair. The repair can be costly. IMHO I do not see the advantage of an unused M6 to an LN- especially if the unused is more money and the shutter has not been fired in 30 years.
Again, I'm one data point but I have never a had a problem with the M6 Wetzlar.
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Old 01-12-2013   #35
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A Leica rep. once told me that early M6 cameras had their elecronics updated as part of a CLA under warranty, silent recall, but don't know the actual time frame.
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Old 01-12-2013   #36
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None of my wetzlar m6's had meter problems however one hadn't been used in 10 years and the slow speeds were not working. Depends on where it has been kept I suppose.
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Old 01-12-2013   #37
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It's certainly not worth twice the going rate of a nice recently serviced one.
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Old 01-12-2013   #38
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The only way it MIGHT be worth that price is if you leave it packaged/sealed up and resell it in 20 years.
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Old 01-12-2013   #39
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I agree. No use i allowed.
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Old 01-12-2013   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V-12 View Post
When did Leica shrink wrap boxes? I have never bough a new Leica in a shrink wrapped box.
Here's an M6 sold at WestLicht auctions, apparently original shrink wrapped. It went for €1800.

http://www.westlicht-auction.com/ind...ssl=off#206958
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