Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > 35mm Film Range Finders > Leica M Film Cameras

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

Old 03-17-2009   #51
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
 
tbarker13's Avatar
 
tbarker13 is offline
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nando View Post
This thread is torture.
This thread convinced me to get a 21/3.4 SA. I was planning to get another 28 (i have a canon 28/2.8) but decided to go just a bit wider and get the Super Angulon. Should be here in the next day or so.
Black model, but a bit older than the version Tom's mentioned as having better coating.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-17-2009   #52
meven
Registered User
 
meven's Avatar
 
meven is offline
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Singapore-/-France
Age: 34
Posts: 943
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbarker13 View Post
This thread convinced me to get a 21/3.4 SA. I was planning to get another 28 (i have a canon 28/2.8) but decided to go just a bit wider and get the Super Angulon. Should be here in the next day or so.
Black model, but a bit older than the version Tom's mentioned as having better coating.
This thread reminds me how stupid I am, why did I sell this lens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
"On peut rire de tout, mais pas avec tout le monde" - Pierre Desproges
"We can laugh at everything, but not with everybody"


Flickr l Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-17-2009   #53
fbf
Registered User
 
fbf is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by meven View Post
This thread reminds me how stupid I am, why did I sell this lens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
no worries. It's common. same here....
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-17-2009   #54
David Murphy
Registered User
 
David Murphy's Avatar
 
David Murphy is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: California
Age: 58
Posts: 2,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeL View Post
Gang, take it down a notch. Too many eyes see this board. Now Nando, Kevin, me, and others who are saving up will need to save more if this keeps up.

Instead, let's discuss how the crappy fall off and unsharp corners just aren't up to modern standards. It's a poor performer. Build quality is crap. You can't use AE or the infernal(sic) meters on the M6, M7 and M8. Using an external finder is just a terrible experience. Most of them get haze and flare like someone's hair in a Pepsi commercial.

Also, I read on the internet it doesn't work on many Leica or Zeiss or Bessa bodies, and it's a crapshoot if it will work on yours. I had one but I traded it for a cellphone camera.
Yeah I remember a few years ago when RFF caused the prices of Canon P's to skyrocket. I try a P now and think -- "Well an OK camera with an overeachingly ambitious finder, decent stuff, but no miracle."
__________________
Contax IIIa, Canon L1, Leotax S, Bessa R2C, Konica Autoreflex T, Canon Ftb QL, Pentax Spotmatic, Minolta SRT-101, Nikon F, Exakta VX, Miranda Automex II, Leotax K, Yashica Mat LM

http://legacycamera.wordpress.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-18-2009   #55
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
 
Trius's Avatar
 
Trius is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Rochester, NY & Toronto area
Posts: 7,746
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Murphy View Post
Yeah I remember a few years ago when RFF caused the prices of Canon P's to skyrocket.
That was all joe's fault.
__________________
My Gallery Flickr
Fine grain is a bourgeois concept

Happiness is APX100 and Rodinal 1:100

A bunch o cameras. Does it really matter?
http://weedram.blogspot.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-18-2009   #56
Glenn2
Registered User
 
Glenn2's Avatar
 
Glenn2 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 267
Had to send my Super Angulon to the repair shop last year. It started to rattle when shaken fore and aft, and thought this might mean something loose inside. The repair man said that a couple retaining rings had come undone, and also mentioned it being the first time he'd seen this on a SA.

I imagine this problem was a result of the 38 years of heavy use the lens has gotten. Too many trips in the back of LandRovers or motorcyles tends to shake things up a bit.

If you're buying one, it shouldn't rattle!

Links to a few more M4 + 21mm Super Angulon shots for anyone interested.

http://www.indiamike.com/photopost/d...115Nishat1.jpg
http://www.indiamike.com/photopost/d...ishatWall1.jpg
http://www.indiamike.com/photopost/d.../Bodanath2.jpg
http://www.indiamike.com/photopost/d...8/Bodanath.jpg
http://www.indiamike.com/photopost/d...Bodanath3a.jpg
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/6615645-lg.jpg
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/6155429-lg.jpg
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/5115223-lg.jpg
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/5378245-lg.jpg

As Tom says, when you get a GOOD ONE, don't be stupid and sell it!

Glenn
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-18-2009   #57
maddoc
... likes film.
 
maddoc's Avatar
 
maddoc is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 調布市
Age: 48
Posts: 6,791
Hm ... my copy of the lens doesn't really look like a collector's item but I think it is usable.

__________________
- Gabor

flickr
pBase
blog
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-18-2009   #58
fbf
Registered User
 
fbf is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,233
just got a m2 for myself (major GAS attack). Thomas, I think i will need my SA21 back if you don't like it.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-18-2009   #59
thomasw_
Registered User
 
thomasw_'s Avatar
 
thomasw_ is offline
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fort Langley, BC
Age: 49
Posts: 1,633
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbf View Post
just got a m2 for myself (major GAS attack). Thomas, I think i will need my SA21 back if you don't like it.
Congratulations on the M2! The M2 is such a fine piece of equipment. I can hardly wait to get my M2 back from Robert's BP restoration treatment. As far as the SA goes, I am digging it. It's prone to flare, though, and I am still getting used to its limitations and possibilities. But it is a very interesting and unique lens; I can see why many love its rendering.

It makes ordinary objects slightly more interesting ----->

__________________
f l i c k r
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-20-2009   #60
helenhill_HH
a Mod /to Light & Love
 
helenhill_HH's Avatar
 
helenhill_HH is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New Yawk
Posts: 5,216
Well I DID IT.....
will finally appease This Lust
just ordered my SA 21 /3.4 serial #: 2917100 (which i think runs circa 1978 )
its comes Tomorrow

Wooohooooo...Cheers! - H
__________________
flickr









The Girls: M4-2 & M-E battling it out for Attention
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-20-2009   #61
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
 
Tom A's Avatar
 
Tom A is offline
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 71
Posts: 5,678
Interesting, mine is 2917099! this is from the last batch of S-A that Schneider made for Leica. Did you get the correct hood for it? Have fun with it and be prepared to ooh and aah over the negatives on the light table too.
This series is part of a small run of 100 lenses made in 1979. Leica had already started making a 21f2.8 - but it was recalled as it was not up to standards, and I think this was an order just to placate customers. In those days there were no M6 to confound meters with the rear elements.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-20-2009   #62
helenhill_HH
a Mod /to Light & Love
 
helenhill_HH's Avatar
 
helenhill_HH is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New Yawk
Posts: 5,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom A View Post
Interesting, mine is 2917099! this is from the last batch of S-A that Schneider made for Leica. Did you get the correct hood for it?
Tom, How Cool is that... aside from You & Eric sharing the 21st of August

The lens comes w/ hood
If I do not use the Hood is Flare & Vignetting more Dramatic ?

Best to You- H
__________________
flickr









The Girls: M4-2 & M-E battling it out for Attention
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-20-2009   #63
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
 
Tom A's Avatar
 
Tom A is offline
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 71
Posts: 5,678
Helen, I advice you to use the hood - a/ the front element is virtually impossible to replace (shudder to think of the cost) and b/ because it is a wide angle, stray light from the edges can flare the image a bit.
It is a lens that works well both with "soft" contrast films and also with very "punchy" black/whites (Jean Loup Sieff style). Try to find a red or orange filter for it as that will give a truly dramatic look.
I will shoot some more with mine, once we are back on April 1. Sooner or later the weather will improve and picture taking will be less of a dodging the shower sport than it is today.
Oh, Helen, somewhere there is a collector going nuts right now - sequentially numbered S-A's and the last batch at that! Hope he has nightmares!
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-20-2009   #64
Melvin
Flim Forever!
 
Melvin's Avatar
 
Melvin is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 440
Tom A--which films do you consider soft contrast and which punchy? Is Pan-f considered punchy, Tri-x soft?
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-20-2009   #65
Al Kaplan
Registered User
 
Al Kaplan is offline
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Miami, FL
Age: 72
Posts: 4,481
Tom, if Schneider made the Super Angulons did they just make the glass and Leitz made the mounts or did Schneider make the entire thing for Leitz?
__________________
RIP

My Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-20-2009   #66
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
 
Trius's Avatar
 
Trius is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Rochester, NY & Toronto area
Posts: 7,746
Not to speak for Tom, but generally yes, Pan-F is punchier than TX (though dev techniques can change that) ... Another softish film is FP-4, as is APX 100.
__________________
My Gallery Flickr
Fine grain is a bourgeois concept

Happiness is APX100 and Rodinal 1:100

A bunch o cameras. Does it really matter?
http://weedram.blogspot.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-20-2009   #67
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
 
Tom A's Avatar
 
Tom A is offline
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 71
Posts: 5,678
"Soft contrast " films would be XX and Tri X (though depending on the developer to some extent). Older emulsions as a rule have a bit longer tonal range - but also more grain.
Modern T grain films like Tmax and newer emulsions like NP 400 Presto and the Acros 100 has the "look" of more bite to it. It is highly subjective and very much depends on your developer, your exposure etc.
Al/ Schneider made the 21/3,4 for Leica - I dont know to what extent it was assembled by them and supplied ready or they only shipped the lens cluster though. Judging from the construction though (aperture ring, lens barrel design etc) I suspect that they were shipped ready made to Leica, checked at the factory and packaged in Leica boxes - somewhat similar to the Zeiss Hologon 15f8 in the late 60's and early 70's.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-20-2009   #68
Al Kaplan
Registered User
 
Al Kaplan is offline
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Miami, FL
Age: 72
Posts: 4,481
Thanks Tom. I always wondered about the Super Angulon's parentage, and I guess I still do. I came near to getting divorced because of my lust for a Hologon when they first hit the market. I'm glad that I waited the 35 years or so until the Heliar hit the market. The few test shots I did with a friend's Hologon really weren't that compelling.
__________________
RIP

My Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-20-2009   #69
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
 
Tom A's Avatar
 
Tom A is offline
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 71
Posts: 5,678
Al, I agree. I had two of the original Hologon's. One for 6-8 month when it came out in the early 70's - late 60's. Interesting lens, but very impractical. F8 as the widest (and only f-stop) and f18 if you didn't want solid black corners. Not useful for editorial/press work!
Later I picked up a used one (early 90's0 - rather pitiful state, but it only confirmed my past experiences with it).
It is a hyper focal lens and really does not focus to infinity. It has some use for doing architectural models and "drama" shots.
The Heliar is optically a better lens as it will focus and also give you a choice of apertures. The, new, coupled one also has an advantage as it will take 52mm filters and is coupled. AS most Nikon F users - I have a box full of 52 mm filters, left over from the 70's-80's. I think there is even a "star" filter among them. Remember those! OK, that on a 15 would distort the world view substantially!
The ZM 15f2.8 is impressive for its speed, size and price! Performance is very good, but at that price - it should have been coupled!
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-20-2009   #70
thomasw_
Registered User
 
thomasw_'s Avatar
 
thomasw_ is offline
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fort Langley, BC
Age: 49
Posts: 1,633
Tom A, Isn't the zm15/2,8 rf coupled? I had thought it was!
__________________
f l i c k r
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-21-2009   #71
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
 
Tom A's Avatar
 
Tom A is offline
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 71
Posts: 5,678
No, even at $4000+ the ZM 15f2.8 lacks rangefinder coupling. In general use it probably doesn't matter - but if you were to use it on a M8 or a RD1 it now becomes a 21 or 24mm - and this is were coupling becomes an issue. This is critical for close up stuff - and you be surprised how much of that you will do with a 15! Even at f4.5 and close in (say 0.6-0.7 m) you will see "fuzziness" creeping into the distance at f4.5. Shooting medium to infinity no problem - but in close - watch out.
I am looking forward to trying the coupled 15 next week in Japan - not with a M8/RD1 - but with my M2/R4M instead. Always liked it in the uncoupled version, but the 52mm filter and the coupling makes it even more attractive.
I have shot with the 15f2.8 and it is impressive, but big and for that kind of money - I can buy a lot of film (and a coupled 15f4.5 too).
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-21-2009   #72
b.espahbod
Optophile
 
b.espahbod's Avatar
 
b.espahbod is offline
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 194
Does anyone have any data sheets showing SA 21mm 3.4 Relative Distortion chart?
__________________
IIIfRDST, IIIg, sold all Ms keeping two M7s, R6.2
P2, F2, MasterTechnika, 503CW, 903SWC, SWC/M
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-21-2009   #73
ishpop
tall person
 
ishpop is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 433
Love the hippies in Nepal shot.
__________________
Minolta CLE, Minolta Auto S3, Rolleiflex 3.5f, Fuji 6x9 Texas Leica, Hasselblad 501c, Rolleiflex Automat, Yashica 635, Oly OM1, Leica Minilux, Contax T2, Polaroid SL680, Holga, Olympus E1, Canon 5DMKII

http://scotteverett.tumblr.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-21-2009   #74
b.espahbod
Optophile
 
b.espahbod's Avatar
 
b.espahbod is offline
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbf View Post
no worries. It's common. same here....
People like you sell and make people like me happy I have 2 one black and one chrome, do u have any more guys
I'm actually looking for a dirty black one (with clean lenses) for taking pictures.
__________________
IIIfRDST, IIIg, sold all Ms keeping two M7s, R6.2
P2, F2, MasterTechnika, 503CW, 903SWC, SWC/M
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-21-2009   #75
Al Kaplan
Registered User
 
Al Kaplan is offline
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Miami, FL
Age: 72
Posts: 4,481
Tom, I never learn. I've been married and divorced since then also...LOL Yes, i remember all of those cool Starburst, Rayburst, etc. filters that Spiratone used to sell! I miss Spiratone! If you go to my blog http://thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com and look at the post for March 1, 2009 there's a color shot of the Barry College chapel made with one of those filters but I'm not sure exactly which one. Someplace around I have a whole bunch of strange 58mm filters of that vintage. I should look for them and have some real fun with the 15.
__________________
RIP

My Gallery
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 23:07.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.