A Minor Suggestion For All No-Bright-Lines Camera Users

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ruben

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I could have posted it at the RF General Discussion sub-forum, but it seems to me it is here where most of the cameras without bright lines in the viewfinder are concentrated.

So we don't have bright lines in our Kievs, Zorkis, Feds, etc. Can we possibly get any advantage out of it ?

Well, it will be nice to reckognize first we all are in big disadvantage here, in this feature other cameras do have.

But today, an idea come to me about how to take a side advantage of the situation. A SIDE advantage, no more than that, so don't prepare yourself for big news.

All film camera users, look through the viewfinder, compose, focus and release the shutter. But when composing, different cameras interfere with our attention towards the subject with their focusing devices.

In this regard, slr users not having a very very bright screen will find their obstacle at the microprism collar right in the center of the image. Nothing to do about.

Rf users with advanced viewfinder systems will find the obstacle of the bright lines and the yellow patch during their composing stage.

Lastly, we the proletariat using Soviet cameras and other dyno-tech cheapos, will be annoyed by the yellow patch only.

But we can do something others can not: by the symple movement of a finger, we can block the yellow patch right window, and have a clean full frame image, free of anything, for the best possible and technically clean viewing, when composing.

Those folks having bright lines in their viewfinder, can do it as well, but they will loose sight of the real frame.

And those using the evils, well, they will have to enjoy the other nice features of their cameras.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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In cameras with and without bright line finders, I have never found the R/F patch to be a distraction while composing. It's my guess that many will agree.
 
ruben said:
But we can do something others can not: by the simple movement of a finger, we can block the yellow patch right window, and have a clean full frame image, free of anything, for the best possible and technically clean viewing, when composing.

Those folks having bright lines in their viewfinder, can do it as well, but they will loose sight of the real frame.
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Ruben-

You have raised a quirky and interesting idea.

Your understanding is correct that when the frameline illuminator window is obscured the framelines vanish completely.
This is certainly true of both the Leica M6 and the Voigtlander R2, and anyone possessing a camera with independently illuminated brightlines can check this for themselves, as I have just done.

The challenge that you identified -losing sight of the real frame- is resolved by knowing the approximate angle of view of the viewfinder window as a whole, then using the lens closest to that. In the .72 M6 that lens is a 28mm, hence using a 28mm lens will resolve this problem completely.

The relevance of this to actual shooting may not be clear to people who lack real experience of social or 'street photography'. When shooting in a crowded place there is so much going on that has to be considered and responded to in an intelligent way, informed by a sense of aesthetics, that any distraction or 'clutter' in the viewfinder simply gets in the way. An SLR of course, is worse still in this respect as the interruption of viewing at the time of exposure is an acute distraction from your enviroment. To many this does not matter- to me it does.

Any flashing lights or needless additional brightlines other than the one currently used for framing impede ones ability to compose swiftly and responsively to the scene in front of you; they can diminish the experience of photography rather than adding to it. An additional benefit for M6 users is that a 28mm can be successfully scale focused at f8, making the (obscured) rangefinder redundant when shooting in good light.

I shall try this out with my 28mm skopar in the upcoming street photography project, simply placing two pieces of black electricians tape over the rangefinder and frameline illuminator window- easy to apply and easy to remove.

An intriguing and counter-intuitive idea, Ruben.


Regards,

Alex.
 
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Quirky indeed. And VERY ODD.

Why would anyone remove the framelines which show the FOV which will be in the picture for the sake of getting an 'uncluttered' view when there is a possibility that some of those observed through this state may actually end up outside the frame because of inaccurate framing?

I do a lot of street photography, and I can certainly appreciate the VF framelines. A floating frameline gives a preview of how the picture, cropped fromthe real world, will look. Action can also be anticipated since it can be first observed outside of the framelines. The framelines, IMO, also promotes an objective way of seeing.

Having framelines in the viewfinder is part of shooting with rangefinders. To get clutter free and views absolutely devoid of any frameline, there is an even easier trick than putting fingers over RF or frameline illuminator ports- get an SLR instead. SLRs, at least, would eliminate the FOV guesswork.
 
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Thanks Alexander for your kind words.
Of course each of us is different, and rangefinders with or without bright lines are different among themselves, so if we multiply the former by the latter we may arrive at several million variations.

On another thread, Rey, a RFF member had the acute obsevation that the weak point of the Kiev rangefinder is in it dimness when composing in very low light. Therefore without a minimun of light level, the bright yellow patch will be of no help for composing.

And yet in the Kiev case once the minimum does exist, the bright yellow patch is rather of an annoyance for composing

But yesterday, incidentally I remembered the idea of patch blocking by night, when framing two different lightened signs, and it worked. At least for me. And it is my hope it will work for many other folks as well

Cheers.
Ruben
 
ruben said:
the weak point of the Kiev rangefinder is in it dimness when composing in very low light. Therefore without a minimun of light level, the bright yellow patch will be of no help for composing.

And yet in the Kiev case once the minimum does exist, the bright yellow patch is rather of an annoyance for composing


Cheers.
Ruben
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You are getting confused.

The last time I checked, that bright little yellow patch was used for focusing, not composing. At least with rangefinders in general, as used sensibly by people in their right mind.

In dim light, that 'bright yellow patch' becomes a dim yellow patch, hardly perceptible, enclosed within a dark green tinted frame- the manner I think, which people in their right senses perceive this.
 
why not inventing a lever similar to the one on Leica Ms, that would change the framelines and have an additional position for "no framelines at all"?
 
No Zorkikat & f2eyelevel, kindly enable me to respectfully disagree with you.

Any Kiev night user knows that when in dim light, the Kiev yellow patch remains much brighter than the viewfinder window. You can even achieve a situation in which the viewfinder will be absolutely dark, but the yellow patch will give you a lot or relatively visibility within its small area
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It was in this context that I meant that the yellow patch, for all its overall contrast and brightness, will be left useless when composing. Now if you need me to add for you that the composing is done within the overall viewfinder, and the yellow patch is for focusing, I have no pride limitation in repeating this.

Very obviously, although you may be still able to focus, the overall surrouding dimness of the viewfinder will make composing hard or unpossible, according to the level of meager light, or no light.

Fortunately Rey, and I hope you too will read this post, there is a great 50mm aid, within the Soviet Turret Finder. And this is great since 50 old finders are rare, and the new ones relatively expensive.

With all due respect Zorkikat, I hope this time I have been more clear for you. But by imaging me to claim that the yellow patch is the device for composing, didn't you and your new associate go too far ?

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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these kind of argues necome very strange. what happened to you people recently - some new kind of drug maybe? i dont see reason to do this - if you dont like thread just dont read it anymore - dont start the fight...
 
ruben said:
No

With all due respect Zorkikat, I hope this time I have been more clear for you. But by imaging me to claim that the yellow patch is the device for composing, didn't you and your new associate go too far ?

Cheers,
Ruben
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Rabin,

Your words were : "the bright yellow patch will be of no help for composing". How could I and my "new associate", again in your very words, "go too far"?

Of course you have made yourself clear. That 'finger-over-the-window' trick is the perhaps the only true, Kiev how-to, I've ever read from you. Everything else I've read is, largely, flatulence.

:angel:
 
nzeeman said:
these kind of argues necome very strange. what happened to you people recently - some new kind of drug maybe? i dont see reason to do this - if you dont like thread just dont read it anymore - dont start the fight...
Click to expand...


I think you are right, and therefore I will ask for the thread closure. After all , all positive input has been clear for all.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Hi Fred,

In fact the idea is not to permanently tape the yellow patch window, but just for a few moments, on behalf of better composing, and if necessary at all.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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