SteveM(PA)
Poser
usccharles, I really love full-frame Noctilux pics, I can't imagine not seeing those beautiful dark edges.
peter_n
Mentor
My M7 back up is an M6TTL. When I needed it a few months ago it failed and I wasn't impressed. Keep the Hexar and sell the M6TTL.usccharles said:
Sailor Ted
Well-known
Not being mean... really
Not being mean... really
Trojan Charlie,
Not being mean, really. Just pointing out that the M8 has better high ISO performance then film, especially where color is concerned- IMO.
Mfunnell, Nice shots at 1600, which is basically the same as the M8 at 1250. Nice as they are however the M8 would have less grain but this does not take away from what you posted which look fine to me.
SteveM(PA), Regarding dark edges and the Noctilux- process your digital images with Lightroom and you can have all the dark edges you want (or not.) It's your call. See below (not shot with a Noctilux or even the M8 but an example of software induced light fall off possible with Lightroom).
Not being mean... really
usccharles said:
Trojan Charlie,
Not being mean, really. Just pointing out that the M8 has better high ISO performance then film, especially where color is concerned- IMO.
Mfunnell, Nice shots at 1600, which is basically the same as the M8 at 1250. Nice as they are however the M8 would have less grain but this does not take away from what you posted which look fine to me.
SteveM(PA), Regarding dark edges and the Noctilux- process your digital images with Lightroom and you can have all the dark edges you want (or not.) It's your call. See below (not shot with a Noctilux or even the M8 but an example of software induced light fall off possible with Lightroom).
Attachments
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S
StuartR
Guest
If I were you, I would keep the M6TTL, but that's just me. I have the M8 and really love it, but film is a totally different tool in the toolbox, and the Leica lenses are the best in all of 35mm, so I would say why not keep the M6 body to use those lenses if you ever feel like shooting film.
I am currently taking a fine art printing class with Brian Young at ICP. He is a master printer, and he prints for Bruce Davidson, James Nachtwey, Eugene Richards, Magnum, the estate of Ernst Haas etc etc. He is BIG TIME. Anyway, the point is that in the class I am learning what film is really capable of...it is pretty amazing. I printed some 20x24's taken by an MP and 35/1.4 ASPH on Tri-X in Rodinal 1:100. It is pretty shocking. The grain is there if you look close, but it is sharp and salt and pepper. The whole photo still looks sharp and highly detailed, even with your nose to it. And this is at 20x24 with an ISO 400 film in a grainy developer! But if you use fiber paper, a perfectly aligned enlarger, glass carrier, good enlarging lens and a bunch of techniques you can make shockingly good enlargements. We have been doing things like flashing (exposing the whole paper for a 1/2 second or more to put some tone in the paper to help with burning highlights), two bath developing (dektol and selectol soft), toning, bleaching and so on. Anyway, the whole point is that film is a totally different ballgame, and one that can be as beautiful if not more so on many occasions. As great as the M8 is (and it is really great), it cannot shoot film. That means that its black and white will never be what you can get in the darkroom (note, not better or worse, just different), nor can you use images from it to present a slide show that could even come close to a good film slide show.
It seems to me that if you have good lenses for the M8, it makes sense to keep the M6 around as well so that you can shoot film if you like. The M6 just seems like a better choice than the R6.2 (depending on what lenses you have for it) or the Rollei 35.
FWIW, this is the photo that I printed 20x24 in the darkroom. I wish I could show all of you the print. It really looks great. I am not arrogant, just proud and surprised!
I am currently taking a fine art printing class with Brian Young at ICP. He is a master printer, and he prints for Bruce Davidson, James Nachtwey, Eugene Richards, Magnum, the estate of Ernst Haas etc etc. He is BIG TIME. Anyway, the point is that in the class I am learning what film is really capable of...it is pretty amazing. I printed some 20x24's taken by an MP and 35/1.4 ASPH on Tri-X in Rodinal 1:100. It is pretty shocking. The grain is there if you look close, but it is sharp and salt and pepper. The whole photo still looks sharp and highly detailed, even with your nose to it. And this is at 20x24 with an ISO 400 film in a grainy developer! But if you use fiber paper, a perfectly aligned enlarger, glass carrier, good enlarging lens and a bunch of techniques you can make shockingly good enlargements. We have been doing things like flashing (exposing the whole paper for a 1/2 second or more to put some tone in the paper to help with burning highlights), two bath developing (dektol and selectol soft), toning, bleaching and so on. Anyway, the whole point is that film is a totally different ballgame, and one that can be as beautiful if not more so on many occasions. As great as the M8 is (and it is really great), it cannot shoot film. That means that its black and white will never be what you can get in the darkroom (note, not better or worse, just different), nor can you use images from it to present a slide show that could even come close to a good film slide show.
It seems to me that if you have good lenses for the M8, it makes sense to keep the M6 around as well so that you can shoot film if you like. The M6 just seems like a better choice than the R6.2 (depending on what lenses you have for it) or the Rollei 35.
FWIW, this is the photo that I printed 20x24 in the darkroom. I wish I could show all of you the print. It really looks great. I am not arrogant, just proud and surprised!
Grober
Well-known
I hate to be maudlin but no M-compatible film body will have much future value if it is anything other than a mint collectible with all its boxes and literature intact. Alas, the average film Leica or Bessa or Hexar camera won't bring much cash.
We've already seen this in the Nikon and Canon worlds as the real value of their older SLRs plummeted as soon as their DSLRs obtained traction in the pro market. The Leica M world is smaller surely but it's value history won't be much different than the already-established trend.
If you waited until now to sell your M6 or M7 in an effort to raise cash for your M8, you may have already waited too long IMHO.
(I continue to keep a Bessa, Nikon film scanner and a few rolls of film in the fridge if only for sentiments sake.)
-g
We've already seen this in the Nikon and Canon worlds as the real value of their older SLRs plummeted as soon as their DSLRs obtained traction in the pro market. The Leica M world is smaller surely but it's value history won't be much different than the already-established trend.
If you waited until now to sell your M6 or M7 in an effort to raise cash for your M8, you may have already waited too long IMHO.
(I continue to keep a Bessa, Nikon film scanner and a few rolls of film in the fridge if only for sentiments sake.)
-g
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bobkonos
Well-known
Sell 'em...my checkbook is out. Seriously, this is why as a dedicated film and rangefinder-SLR user I love digital-it brings more quality cameras to the marketplace.
x-ray
Mentor
I don't know what you shoot and the level of your work or how you feel about photography. Photograph is my living and also what i do for enjoyment. Strange to have your occupation as your source of enjoyment isn't it? Anyway, my studio has been all digital for 7 year and almost 8 now. When I first got into digital I was star struck with what digital could do. I adopted it for my work 100% and was phasing it into my personal work. I started selling much of my film equipment including my much loved Linhof Master Technica that I had used for 29 years, my Focomat enlarger, my Nikon film equipment, my Pentax 6x7 equipment my 3 Rollei SL66 systems, my 6x17 Fuji and many more pieces of premium equipement thinking I would never shoot film again. I commented to my wife that this is the end of film for me. After a while of using digital for everything I suddenly had a call to reality. Digital wasn't perfect, it had limits on printing quality vs darkroom printing and print size, it was time consuming technical work behind the computer and archiving was a problem compared to film. I since have regretted selling my film gear and have repurchased the main part of the system and added more film gear then before. Certainly digital has it's place in the commercial world but it's not perfect and good for everything. I'm back in the film business now and have no regrets. I'm even trying to get my clients back into using some film. There's a place for both film and digital. Neither replaces the other but complements each other.
The moral to the story, don't rush out and make a decision that you'll be sorry for later.
The moral to the story, don't rush out and make a decision that you'll be sorry for later.
I would keep them for now... the M8 hasn't been out long enough. You might find that in 6 months you enjoy shooting some film for whatever reason.
i would put the film cameras in a drawer and sit on them for at least 6 months. If you decide to sell then at least you've had a cooling off period.
-Rob skeoch
i would put the film cameras in a drawer and sit on them for at least 6 months. If you decide to sell then at least you've had a cooling off period.
-Rob skeoch
DaveSee
shallow depth of field
So, you managed to get the cash to buy an M8, and keep these terrific tools?usccharles said:Am I stupid? SOmeone help.
So I've been pondering this ever since i started using my M8. I do love my film bodies, but i seriously see no reason to use them any more with my M8 around. i have a Konica Hexar RF and M6TTL.
Should i keep them for a rainy day or should i sell them and buy a nice lens? they're just sitting at home catching dust all day.
Keep them until you feel, when holding them in your hands, that "nice lens" would feel worth selling them.
I have 25 year-old paint brushes that I know well and would never "sell" because I bought another. Who would buy a used paint brush? Go shoot a couple rolls now that the M8 has shown you another view and you'll understand: choice, a great freedom you still have.
rgds,
Dave
usccharles
Well-known
thank you for all your generous comments
but with so many good advice i am now more confused with what i should do
:bang:
i guess the reason i'm thinking of selling my film RFs is because the reason i got into film in the first place was not because i liked shooting film, but because i loved the compactness of film cameras. I started out shooting digital, point-and-shoots first, a 20D, and now a 5D with more lenses than i really need. but the more and more i got into photography, the more i realized the sheer size of the 5D with all its big lenses was one of the main reasons i didn't take me camera out as much. i wanted something smaller that i could lug around with me everywhere. so i got a Hexar and was in love.
i got the M6 alittle later and did enjoy it (and still do) very much, but now with the M8, I have a camera that is as small and discreet as my Hexar and M6, and i get to use all my dope Leica glass. so i carry it everywhere i go and really haven't looked back. the M6/Hexars were great cameras but i really hate waiting to get my film developed when compared to the quickness of just inserting the card in my computer and getting all my images right then and there.
i want to keep the R6.2 because like the how it was with my RFs, when i feel like shooting with a SLR, i always seem to opt for the R6.2 instead of the 5D, mainly for its small size. size really is a big thing for me because i love taking pictures while being discreet about it. Hence my love for the Rollei 35 too.
I've considered selling the 5D too but i may just sell some of the lenses and keep it. I definately cant do Macro with my M8 and i think that is where my 5D shines, macro shots.
over time i've realized my favorite focal lengths are 35mm and 50mm, i got that covered with my 28/2.8 and 35/1.4. and i have my noctilux. that basically is all i need 99% of the time and my M8 covers this AOK.
sorry for the long rambling but thank you again for your comments. I'm going to sleep on this for a few days and hopefully i'll come up with an answer.
FYI - I've Never sold any camera gear that i have ever bought except my 20D. So i'm alittle nervous, alittle guilty even with even thinking of parting with all my cherished gear. but alas, sometimes you have clean house.
but with so many good advice i am now more confused with what i should do
:bang:
i guess the reason i'm thinking of selling my film RFs is because the reason i got into film in the first place was not because i liked shooting film, but because i loved the compactness of film cameras. I started out shooting digital, point-and-shoots first, a 20D, and now a 5D with more lenses than i really need. but the more and more i got into photography, the more i realized the sheer size of the 5D with all its big lenses was one of the main reasons i didn't take me camera out as much. i wanted something smaller that i could lug around with me everywhere. so i got a Hexar and was in love.
i got the M6 alittle later and did enjoy it (and still do) very much, but now with the M8, I have a camera that is as small and discreet as my Hexar and M6, and i get to use all my dope Leica glass. so i carry it everywhere i go and really haven't looked back. the M6/Hexars were great cameras but i really hate waiting to get my film developed when compared to the quickness of just inserting the card in my computer and getting all my images right then and there.
i want to keep the R6.2 because like the how it was with my RFs, when i feel like shooting with a SLR, i always seem to opt for the R6.2 instead of the 5D, mainly for its small size. size really is a big thing for me because i love taking pictures while being discreet about it. Hence my love for the Rollei 35 too.
I've considered selling the 5D too but i may just sell some of the lenses and keep it. I definately cant do Macro with my M8 and i think that is where my 5D shines, macro shots.
over time i've realized my favorite focal lengths are 35mm and 50mm, i got that covered with my 28/2.8 and 35/1.4. and i have my noctilux. that basically is all i need 99% of the time and my M8 covers this AOK.
sorry for the long rambling but thank you again for your comments. I'm going to sleep on this for a few days and hopefully i'll come up with an answer.
FYI - I've Never sold any camera gear that i have ever bought except my 20D. So i'm alittle nervous, alittle guilty even with even thinking of parting with all my cherished gear. but alas, sometimes you have clean house.
KM-25
Well-known
Sailor Ted said:
This is Fuji 800 Super-G circa 1996 pushed to ISO 2,000.
It ran in the New York Times as well as some 300 papers and magzines world-wide, won a big AP award and was made into a 20x30 limited edition poster which looked spectacular. No one complained about noise or grain, it is full frame too...
This was over ten years ago, I would imagine you could push the 1,600 easily to 3,200 and get great results.
What fun it is to be able to eek out the best of both worlds, film and digital!
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KM-25
Well-known
SteveM(PA) said:
And if you don't like them, you can crop them out. This is why I will only use full frame sensors.
Gawd I love my pair of M6's..
:angel:
KM-25
Well-known
Sailor Ted said:
But you will lose that $5,000 peripherial bokeh.
No thanks..
KM-25
Well-known
Great post!
Thanks for taking the time to share the details. I shot over 1,000 digital images today on two advertising shoots. But there is a reason I have hundreds of rolls of 35mm and 120 black and white film in a freezer, your post sums it up nicely.
Thanks for taking the time to share the details. I shot over 1,000 digital images today on two advertising shoots. But there is a reason I have hundreds of rolls of 35mm and 120 black and white film in a freezer, your post sums it up nicely.
StuartR said:
charlesfoto
Established
You've obviously got such a varied response that it's going to be up to you...and you, only, who can decide what's best for you. The M8 is definitely not for me, the M7 my everyday camera. When digital is required for work...for speed of results, not for quality, I use a D200, a DSLR much more flexible in usage than the M8. Is the look of digital what you want, or do you still prefer the look of film? That's always been my prime concern, and for me, film wins, hands down. But that's me...you need to decide for yourself.
Philinflash
Registered Addict
usccharles said:Am I stupid? SOmeone help.
So I've been pondering this ever since i started using my M8. I do love my film bodies, but i seriously see no reason to use them any more with my M8 around. i have a Konica Hexar RF and M6TTL.
Should i keep them for a rainy day or should i sell them and buy a nice lens? they're just sitting at home catching dust all day.
Of course, we're all a little bit stupid because that's why we're here!
You may not want to keep your film cameras when "they" stop producing film. There are signs of that day approaching, although I note that buggy-whips are still available, too.
You might be disappointed with what the film cameras bring in on the used market. A friend of mine just bought a "suitcase full" of Mimaya 645 gear (many lenses and accessories) for $200. I don't know what he expects to do with it.
A better alternative might be to donate the stuff to an art or photography school and take a tax writeoff. You can probably get a friendler valuation than you could get in hard cash.
But, in the end, I would bet you will value the stuff more than the market does and you will keep it if you have the storage capacity.
Philip
Ben Z
Mentor
usccharles said:Am I stupid? SOmeone help.
So I've been pondering this ever since i started using my M8. I do love my film bodies, but i seriously see no reason to use them any more with my M8 around. i have a Konica Hexar RF and M6TTL.
Should i keep them for a rainy day or should i sell them and buy a nice lens? they're just sitting at home catching dust all day.
I recall a couple years ago like-new Hexar RF's were going for around $500. Now that Konica-Minolta is history and service/parts for the RF are probably more problematic than the Epson RD1, I can't imagine it'd fetch enough to make it worth selling...but weird things happen on fleabay
I'd probably keep it. The M8 hasn't exactly proved itself to be a bulletproof tank yet TJV
Well-known
I think you'd be crazy to sell your film gear. You'll need somthing for backup when your M8 is back in Solms for repair.
Gilles L.
Member
This is my first post to this forum but I am a long time lurker... thank you for all your threads, you often answered many of my questions.
I recently purchased the M8 and I will be selling my M7 very soon. I love my M7 and I use to keep it my side at all time, but negatives are pilling up and I am not finding the quiet and peaceful time required to process it all. As miles of film strip developed, I stopped carrying the camera.
I have been shooting a 5D both for work and personally, with Canon and Leica-R lenses. But the camera is rather bulky and I must say that when it comes to personal work, I find myself leaving the camera at home most of the time. The 5D is a brilliant camera, delivering outstanding results. But compared to a compact and well-built M, well, the camera is not as practical to haul, and the Leica is definitely more fun to work with.
Until recently I thought the M8 was not for me and that the M7 and 5D combo was a perfect match. However, I travel a lot and I never know which gear to take, and pretty much never have the right camera and lens with me :bang: .... I think the M8 is the solution in my case, allowing me to carry a compact digital M system with me. The results of the M8 are also outstanding, and I am as satisfied with the images of the M8 as I am with the 5D.
My work requires macrophotography and I therefore thought I would be keeping the 5D for this purpose. As noted above by Charles, macro is not the M8 forte. However, I just bought a visoflex and bellows and will be experimenting with it in the next few weeks. If the results are as good as with the 5D, I will definitely consider selling the canon gear as well.
At this stage, selling my M7 will allow me to fund more lenses for the M8. Selling the 5D and my lenses would definitely allow me to invest in a pretty complete M system, but at this time I am still concerned about the reliability of the camera and therefore I still need a little bit more assurance that the M8 will not die on me in the middle of a job...
I recently purchased the M8 and I will be selling my M7 very soon. I love my M7 and I use to keep it my side at all time, but negatives are pilling up and I am not finding the quiet and peaceful time required to process it all. As miles of film strip developed, I stopped carrying the camera.
I have been shooting a 5D both for work and personally, with Canon and Leica-R lenses. But the camera is rather bulky and I must say that when it comes to personal work, I find myself leaving the camera at home most of the time. The 5D is a brilliant camera, delivering outstanding results. But compared to a compact and well-built M, well, the camera is not as practical to haul, and the Leica is definitely more fun to work with.
Until recently I thought the M8 was not for me and that the M7 and 5D combo was a perfect match. However, I travel a lot and I never know which gear to take, and pretty much never have the right camera and lens with me :bang: .... I think the M8 is the solution in my case, allowing me to carry a compact digital M system with me. The results of the M8 are also outstanding, and I am as satisfied with the images of the M8 as I am with the 5D.
My work requires macrophotography and I therefore thought I would be keeping the 5D for this purpose. As noted above by Charles, macro is not the M8 forte. However, I just bought a visoflex and bellows and will be experimenting with it in the next few weeks. If the results are as good as with the 5D, I will definitely consider selling the canon gear as well.
At this stage, selling my M7 will allow me to fund more lenses for the M8. Selling the 5D and my lenses would definitely allow me to invest in a pretty complete M system, but at this time I am still concerned about the reliability of the camera and therefore I still need a little bit more assurance that the M8 will not die on me in the middle of a job...
boilerdoc2
Well-known
Keep both. Film has a certain indefineable feel to it that digital hasn't matched yet. Almost too perfect is the digital. As far as macro goes the M8 works really well on the Viso/ bellows set up. I also have the 90 Macro-m with close up attachment. The quality of the print blew me away. And that's up to 1/2 life size (with the 1.33x conversion of the M8).
Steve
Steve