jamiewakeham
Long time lurker
Hi all
Whilst clearing out the school cupboards, I've come across a Watson bulk loader. Been meaning to look at the idea of bulk rolling for a while.
But - it doesn't seem to actually save any money, at least not in the UK. The very cheapest I can find film in bulk for is at 7dayshop.com, who have a special on 17m of HP5+ for £13. I've found that you'll get about 18 rolls (36exp) from a 30m bulk roll, so I might squeeze 10 rolls from 17m. That's going to be £1.30 a roll, then, plus time and faff, plus reusable canisters.
But 7dayshop sells HP5+ for the equivalent of £1.80 if you buy in bulk anyway! Sure, 50p a roll cheaper would be nice but it doesn't seem enough of a saving to make it worth it. And this saving is only possible because of a clearance offer - their regular prices mean that buying 30m and buying individual rolls is pretty much the same price.
I appreciate that being able to roll your preferred length would be great - I'd go for much shorter rolls so I could vary dev more precisely - but I thought I'd also be able to save lots.
Or do I need to be buying from different places? Can one get it more cheaply from the evilBay (I can't see ebay from work so don't know...) and are the results trustworthy? You don't know if the film has been fridged... though I seem to recall that fridging is less critical for B&W than colour?
Thanks for any help or advice!
Jamie
Whilst clearing out the school cupboards, I've come across a Watson bulk loader. Been meaning to look at the idea of bulk rolling for a while.
But - it doesn't seem to actually save any money, at least not in the UK. The very cheapest I can find film in bulk for is at 7dayshop.com, who have a special on 17m of HP5+ for £13. I've found that you'll get about 18 rolls (36exp) from a 30m bulk roll, so I might squeeze 10 rolls from 17m. That's going to be £1.30 a roll, then, plus time and faff, plus reusable canisters.
But 7dayshop sells HP5+ for the equivalent of £1.80 if you buy in bulk anyway! Sure, 50p a roll cheaper would be nice but it doesn't seem enough of a saving to make it worth it. And this saving is only possible because of a clearance offer - their regular prices mean that buying 30m and buying individual rolls is pretty much the same price.
I appreciate that being able to roll your preferred length would be great - I'd go for much shorter rolls so I could vary dev more precisely - but I thought I'd also be able to save lots.
Or do I need to be buying from different places? Can one get it more cheaply from the evilBay (I can't see ebay from work so don't know...) and are the results trustworthy? You don't know if the film has been fridged... though I seem to recall that fridging is less critical for B&W than colour?
Thanks for any help or advice!
Jamie
like2fiddle
Curious
Jamie,
Maybe this won't apply because you're in the UK, but the general concept should apply wherever you are. I would hope you might find film for a little better price. I buy HP5 in 100' (about 30m rolls) for around $35-$40 US. What you say is about right - 18 36 exp rolls per bulk 30m roll. Here, HP5 is around $4 per roll plus shipping. Total for 18 rolls is around $80. I've been reusing my canisters for quite a while. It's been some time since I purchased any, but I think they sell for somewhat less than $1. You already have a bulk loader. You should be able to essentially cut your cost by one third to one half by loading yourself. As you also mentioned, you could load smaller rolls which would give you more options.
Maybe this won't apply because you're in the UK, but the general concept should apply wherever you are. I would hope you might find film for a little better price. I buy HP5 in 100' (about 30m rolls) for around $35-$40 US. What you say is about right - 18 36 exp rolls per bulk 30m roll. Here, HP5 is around $4 per roll plus shipping. Total for 18 rolls is around $80. I've been reusing my canisters for quite a while. It's been some time since I purchased any, but I think they sell for somewhat less than $1. You already have a bulk loader. You should be able to essentially cut your cost by one third to one half by loading yourself. As you also mentioned, you could load smaller rolls which would give you more options.
T
tedwhite
Guest
At Freestyle in California, I buy 100 foot rolls of Arista EDU ISO 400 for $19.99. A 100 foot roll of HP5 is $39.99.
Kodak's TriX is $45.99 Arista II Professional is $24.99, so you can see that there's quite a range in price. I bulk load a 24 exposure roll but only shoot 20-21 exposures to avoid any film advance jamming.
I find it far cheaper than buying individual rolls. You either pay shipping or the cost of gasoline to drive to wherever they sell it, and those stores (camera shops mostly for b/w film) are becoming increasingly rare. There is but one camera store in Cochise County (about the size of Rhode Island and Connecticut combined), and it's a 50 mile round trip. I keep film in the freezer.
Ted
Kodak's TriX is $45.99 Arista II Professional is $24.99, so you can see that there's quite a range in price. I bulk load a 24 exposure roll but only shoot 20-21 exposures to avoid any film advance jamming.
I find it far cheaper than buying individual rolls. You either pay shipping or the cost of gasoline to drive to wherever they sell it, and those stores (camera shops mostly for b/w film) are becoming increasingly rare. There is but one camera store in Cochise County (about the size of Rhode Island and Connecticut combined), and it's a 50 mile round trip. I keep film in the freezer.
Ted
kmack
do your job, then let go
In addition if you keep your eyes and ears open you can find out of date and short date bulk film 1/2 price or better. Right now Freestyle is selling 100' rolls of past date Arista 50 for about $12 US. About a year ago I got a partial roll (about 50 feet) of Portra from a local pro who had some left over from a project. He had no further use for it so he just gave it to me.
Didier
"Deed"
Bulk loading cheaper? Yes. Especially if one uses rolls that are soon outdated, or already outdated.I have used a few dozens of 17m and 33mm (100ft) rolls of Pan-F, HP-5 and Plus-X in the past years. But I have received one big concern in this time: horizontally scratched rolls.
The bulk roll is fiddled into the loader box, then leaves the box where it potentially can be scratched the first time (assuming the bulk roll was clean before). At the same time it is rolled into the can, the next scratching potential. Then, in the camera, you wind the roll out of the can and rewind it into. OK this happens with any roll one might say. But the plastic cans I used made a less good impression than factory cans. Though I used the bulk cans twice only, I had significantly more scratched negatives with bulk than with factory rolls.
Since I use the R-D1, my film use went dramatically back, but I can say I wouldn't have bought new bulk rolls anymore.
Didier
The bulk roll is fiddled into the loader box, then leaves the box where it potentially can be scratched the first time (assuming the bulk roll was clean before). At the same time it is rolled into the can, the next scratching potential. Then, in the camera, you wind the roll out of the can and rewind it into. OK this happens with any roll one might say. But the plastic cans I used made a less good impression than factory cans. Though I used the bulk cans twice only, I had significantly more scratched negatives with bulk than with factory rolls.
Since I use the R-D1, my film use went dramatically back, but I can say I wouldn't have bought new bulk rolls anymore.
Didier
T
tedwhite
Guest
Didier, I, too, toss reloadable canisters after 2-3 uses. The last 20 or so rolls I've bulk loaded have not been scratched. Also, before I insert a new 100 roll into the Watson, I wash the loader thoroughly. Seems to help.
Ted
Ted
mr_phillip
Well-known
I like bulk loading for the flexibility as much as the cost saving. If I need to run a test roll through a camera, or to test a lens, I just just roll off as much or as little film as I feel I need.
Also, as others say, there are real bargains to be had with out-of-date or end-of-line films. There was a glut of outdated APX400S (the thin-base stuff) that hit the UK at the end of last year, and was selling for £5 a can – and that's for 48.8 metre rolls mind!
Also, as others say, there are real bargains to be had with out-of-date or end-of-line films. There was a glut of outdated APX400S (the thin-base stuff) that hit the UK at the end of last year, and was selling for £5 a can – and that's for 48.8 metre rolls mind!
john neal
fallor ergo sum
I think you need to shop around - I recently bought 2 x 100ft of short-dated Agfa APX400 for £6 each including delivery. What didn't get loaded into cassettes straight away is now safely in the bottom of my freezer.
It is always worth checking Silverprint and Mr Cad for these sort of bargains.
It is always worth checking Silverprint and Mr Cad for these sort of bargains.
jamiewakeham
Long time lurker
Argh. Why are Ilford films the same price in $ as they are in £ when we make the damn stuff here?
OK, so I need to hunt for out-of-date or nearly out rolls if I'm to make any real savings. How worried should I be about date? I'm certainly paranoid about colour slide film going out of date. Will nearly out of date B&W film that goes straight into the freezer last - ie does freezing completely arrest decay?
Cheers
Jamie
OK, so I need to hunt for out-of-date or nearly out rolls if I'm to make any real savings. How worried should I be about date? I'm certainly paranoid about colour slide film going out of date. Will nearly out of date B&W film that goes straight into the freezer last - ie does freezing completely arrest decay?
Cheers
Jamie
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Film is a lot tougher and more resilient than we believe. For slide film to go "bad" you really need to store it in bad conditions, or it needs to be very old to show a color shift. In B&W film there's a subtle deterioration in contrast, but then, again, it needs to be extremely old (over 10 years), or store in pretty bad conditions to show some problems to the naked eye.
Hence, freezing slows down the deteriorating process and frozen film can last for a while... but I wouldn't keep it for longer than, say, 7 years (both, B&W and color).
Seems like it's time for me to use some of the stuff I have in my freezer...
Hence, freezing slows down the deteriorating process and frozen film can last for a while... but I wouldn't keep it for longer than, say, 7 years (both, B&W and color).
Seems like it's time for me to use some of the stuff I have in my freezer...
40oz
...
I don't have any problem with scratching film. But then, I keep the film cartridges in film canisters before and after use. I found if I let them roll around in my pocket or bag with a canister, they get dusty, so I keep them in canisters. I don't keep track of how many times I've used my cartridges, but I'd say each has been used at least ten times by now, some more some less.
As has been mentioned, bulk rolling is easily cheaper, but that doesn't mean you can't find situations with certain retailers and certain films where there is little savings.
As has been mentioned, bulk rolling is easily cheaper, but that doesn't mean you can't find situations with certain retailers and certain films where there is little savings.
like2fiddle
Curious
40oz said:
I've heard of folks who get used cartridges from the local labs and roll bulk film onto them. I've never tried this, but I suppose it's an option. Regarding scratching film, I've had many more instances of one-hour lab machines scratching film/negatives than I've ever had reusing my own canisters.
kully
Happy Snapper
Jamie,
for film canisters - pop into Jessops, every store I've been to has been happy to give me their empty ones from people bringing in film for developing.
Plus they leave a little film hanging out - perfect for cellotaping the bulk film.
As they're free I use them once and chuck them away.
for film canisters - pop into Jessops, every store I've been to has been happy to give me their empty ones from people bringing in film for developing.
Plus they leave a little film hanging out - perfect for cellotaping the bulk film.
As they're free I use them once and chuck them away.
Revolucion Artistico
Established
I bought a couple rolls of kodak tmax (I think it was) that was dated 1978 from a guy at a camera show who claimed it had been frozen for who knows how long just to see if it would come out ok. I shot it with +1.5-2.0 compensation and the results were definately acceptable. It was kinda fun it had the really long leader and said "safety film" etc on the negs.
40oz
...
like2fiddle said:
I so agree. I scan my negatives, and the dusty and scratched negatives from 1 hour places just irritate me too much. I figure if I can avoid it even doing things in my bathroom, why can't they?
peter_n
Mentor
Well you might be able to avoid dusty and scratched negatives from 1 hour places by not getting prints and asking for the negs to be placed uncut into a 36 exp. roll. I've had good results that way from my local minilab...
Also I do think that bulk reduces the cost. I use XP2 every now and then but it is expensive, at least here in the US. I can cut costs by more than 50% by buying a bulk roll and loading the cassettes while I'm watching the telly.
Also I do think that bulk reduces the cost. I use XP2 every now and then but it is expensive, at least here in the US. I can cut costs by more than 50% by buying a bulk roll and loading the cassettes while I'm watching the telly.
T
tedwhite
Guest
Actually, I don't find bulk loading an aggravation. As Peter says, you load up the cassettes while watching television, or while listening to music. I just loaded up ten this PM and didn't find it bothersome as I was chatting with a friend at the time.
NickTrop
Mentor
I always bulk load, never think it's aggravating, and it absolutely saves money. Use cartridges once, get them free by the shopping bag full at your local photo shop. Tape the film using 35mm green splicing tape (some people use masking tape).
I love having my favorite black and white films always available to me. Currently I have XP2 Super, Tri-X, FP4+, and Agfa Optima 400 in bulk loaders in the fridge (cept on roll). When one runs out, I'll buy another. It's the only way to go. My local photo guy charges around $5.00 a roll for Tri-X. I think I paid around $38 for a 100' spool of said film, fresh. It takes a couple minutes to per cartridge, loaders are dirt cheap.
I love having my favorite black and white films always available to me. Currently I have XP2 Super, Tri-X, FP4+, and Agfa Optima 400 in bulk loaders in the fridge (cept on roll). When one runs out, I'll buy another. It's the only way to go. My local photo guy charges around $5.00 a roll for Tri-X. I think I paid around $38 for a 100' spool of said film, fresh. It takes a couple minutes to per cartridge, loaders are dirt cheap.
john neal
fallor ergo sum
jamiewakeham said:
Just to stretch the date thing a bit - I have some Kodak R60 B&W negative film in 100ft tins. The best before date is 1978, yes 1978, and (as far as I know) it has never been in a fridge - I got it when the commercial darkroom at work closed down (it was 10 years out of date then). I have used this at 50asa and got useable results. This film is soo old that Kodak don't have any record of it, but it still produces an image (a bit like a TV without a licence, really
)So, don't worry, particularly with B&W, if a film is 2 or 3, or even 7 years out of date, providing it has been kept in good conditions, you will most likely find it quite usable.
jamiewakeham
Long time lurker
Fair enough - I'll try to hunt down some cheaper bulk rolls. If anyone sees any going, do pm me!
Still aggrieves me a little that our American friends pay $38 for a fresh roll, when I've yet to find a fresh roll for less than £40 here!
Thanks for all the input.
Jamie
Still aggrieves me a little that our American friends pay $38 for a fresh roll, when I've yet to find a fresh roll for less than £40 here!
Thanks for all the input.
Jamie