Leica LTM Rangefinder Advice

First of all i'm sorry if this is on the wrong forum.I am interested in buying a budget rangefinder camera form a local store and was pondering on whether to buy a Leica iif or some other camera. I have a budget in around the $300 to $400 and I want to buy both a body, lens, and etc. I basically want to use this camera for everyday use and a bit of street photography. This is the Leica iif that I want to buy and I was wondering if this is an actual Leica iif because the D.O.M seems off. I was also wondering on how I could haggle the price and some convincing points. This is the website for the store. Thanks for all the advice.

Are you sure you want an old Leica? I'm not going to try to turn you away, but just don't buy anything unless you were exactly sure it was what you wanted.

Their website says their prices on the IIF range from $300 to $800, and I'm assuming that's just for the body. To keep it within your price range, you'd have to buy their worst camera and a really crappy lens, probably some Russian one. You wouldn't have any kind of built in metering (duh) so you'll have to use some sort of external meter.

If I were buying a budget rangefinder camera for everyday use, I would actually buy an autofocus camera instead. Something like the Konica Hexar AF, Contax G1 and 45mm or 28mm, Ricoh GR-1, Contax T2, Nikon 35Ti or 28Ti, etc. these are all modern cameras with auto/semi-auto metering and good focusing, some are smaller than the Leica and will fit in your pocket. They offer great results because the lenses are modern - Leica lenses are known to be the best, and the older ones certainly have their own aesthetic to them, but I think modern lenses (especially that Zeiss Contax 45mm f/2) are going to be better.

If those don't float your boat, I would also recommend more recent (than the IIF) fixed-lens rangefinders. You won't be able to afford more than one lens for that Leica anyway (at least not with that budget you posted). The Olympus XA is a tiny rangefinder that fits in your pocket. The Contax T is the next step up from that. The Rollei 35 is not a rangefinder camera, only a scale focusing camera, but it's excellent and super compact. There's a slew of 70's fixed lens rangefinders (Yashica Electro, Canonet QL17, Olympus RC/RD/SP, Konica S2 and S3, etc etc) that are all pretty good and certainly under $300.

I don't know, do what you want, but I know personally I can't see the screw mount Leicas as anything but a shelf toy. They are beautiful. But I'd pick up pretty much anything else in a heartbeat. Of course if there's one place for me to get my butt kicked for this opinion, it's here that's just my 2c though.

keytarjunkie is in many ways right. Leica screwmounts are beautiful jewels when nice, but if the shop is asking $300-800 for just the body, you'll end up with a crappy combo given your budget. Assuming you're set on a real rangefinder, the fixed lens one keytarjunkie suggested may be for you. Cameraquest has a good article on these link. Good luck!

I'd be more inclined to check this website for a Leica body/lens combo:

http://www.keh.com/

That said, I think you'll have a tricky time finding a decent body/lens combo in your price range (not saying it can't be found, but through a camera store I'd say so). You could likely find a decent body for that price, but then factor another few hundred for a decent 50mm lens. Or you might find a combo in that range, but then you'd likely have to get a CLA (clean, lube, adjust) to get everything working right.

Maybe look in the classifieds here on RFF to see what someone here might have?

Here's another site to check out -- not Leicas, but they might be fine for what you want to do, are definitely within your budget (heck, you'd probably have money left over!), and this seller is very reputable:

http://www.fedka.com

In your price range the Leica CL that usually comes with the 40mm summicron might be the affordable option. Fun little Leica really.

Just checked the prices of CL's on KEH's site, and a body and lens would be way out of his price range (at least on KEH's site, that is).

I agree with the others, it will be a challenge to find such a camera in your price range. I love using my Leica IIIc but it is not for everyone. If you really want one, would you consider spending $300 on the best Leica body you can find and a little bit more on a Russian Industar 22 from Fedka dot com? The Russian lens is quite nice and could get you started to see if a Leica screw mount is really for you. Good Luck and let us know how it works out. Joe

Sherry Krauter has a Leica II on her website for $300. If she sells it then it must be working well. Joe

Of course it's possible in his budget, guys. I count five IIIa or IIIc bodies between $115 and $189 on KEH right now. Nothing seriously wrong with them (speeds off, rangefinder dim, flash sync added, that sort of thing). A quick CLA and new beamsplitter (if needed) to take care of this is $150 from Youxin*. This still leaves enough money for a J-12 plus finder, which would be better suited to the street photography he has in mind than the Industar.

All of it easily sold again at very little loss if the OP does find out it's not for him.

*That's Youxin Ye, his website is yyecamera.com and his ebay ID is wye7

If a IIf will do the job, so will a Fed I (as already suggested), for a lot less money. The Fed is a great entry-level equivalent, and if you get swept in, you can always buy a Leica later.

As battery suggests, above, the IIIa is a cheap Leica, and completely functional--moreso than a IIf, if you're not using flash,--I find slow speeds much more valuable to me than flash sync. When I dumped my M outfit to go Nikon digital, and put my Fed out on permanent loan, it was the IIIa that I kept.

I know this store very well. They are knowlegable but their prices on used Leica gear are not bargains. You will get a better deal from KEH. That said, you will have a tough time finding a Leica screwmount camera and lens w/in your price range. As an everyday carry and for street photography, you may be better off with an Oly XA, as suggested above, or one of the other fixed lens Olympus or Canon rangefinders from the 1970s or 80s. They are pocketable, discreet, and have very good optics.

If you still want to go the Barnack Leica route, you should also look at Canon rfs from the 1950s. These copied the Barnack Leicas in overall design, but introduced some improvements and are just as well made. A Canon IVSB2 is a nice compact shooter w/ a vf that allows you to adjust magnification. The Canon rfs from this era are often a little cheaper than their Leica counterparts. I'd recommend looking at KEH or Classifieds here.

Buy direct from a repair person. I recently purchased a IIIf at a good price from Youxin Ye and I am very happy with it. If Sherry Krauter has one available I would not hesitate to buy from her as well.

If you buy one from KEH, figure on adding the price of an overhaul. They have good deals, but they mainly check cosmetic condition and basic function. You will likely still need to have it looked at.

I think Steve is right that you should also consider a Canon screwmount as an alternative.

Randy

Is this your first rangefinder? If so, I would not recommend an old screw mount camera w/ tiny peep holes for focusing and framing, knob film advance, and no meter. That's just me.

There are many, many types of fixed lens rangefinder cameras w/ in-camera meters and lever film advance, all of which will make your life much easier. I love the old screw mount cameras, but in the end I much prefer the convenience, higher shutter speeds, better viewfinder, etc of something like a Bessa R. One of those w/ an inexpensive J-8 lens or one of the Soviet collapsible lenses is just a tad out of your price point.

If it were me, I'd get something like a Konica Auto S2, Konica C35, etc for $50-$80, and buy a whole bunch of film. There are a LOT of other inexpensive fixed lens rangefinders at that price, but I have used the two I mentioned and can assure you the cameras are fun to use, the lenses are sharp, the meters are accurate (assuming you get one that operates properly), and having exposure lock is something I really want in a camera. Both of these cameras have AE lock. The Auto S2 is much bigger and heavier than a C35, but the build quality is better and I prefer this model myself.

Hi,

Simple question; is it a range-finder you want or a Leica RF?

The answer may save you a fortune. And the FED 1's are nice and cheap. Get one, send it to Oleg and it will run as sweet as Leica, well, mine do. Then, once convinced and still with cash for film think about a Leica.

And don't forget Olympus do a nice line of RF's or all sorts. Take the Olympus 35SP for a target / yardstick and you'll have a job to beat it.

Regards, David

Thanks to everyone who replied I have decided to get a Canon QL17 and use the rest of the money for a small Domke bag and accessories. I would also appreciate links to a fairly cheap and functional QL17 preferably sub-$100.

Nice choice. KEH has a handful of QL17's here, however, the only one that's sub-$100 is one rated UG and another with an inoperative meter. You could also try ebay. But, the QL17's so small I'd recommend taking the bag money and reallocating it to a nicer copy of the QL17.