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-   -   M7 or a Zeiss Ikon ZM? (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71292)

kshapero 03-15-2009 12:47

M7 or a Zeiss Ikon ZM?
 
Used mint m7 or new ZM?

Krosya 03-15-2009 13:03

Wasnt this done/asked here, like 2000000000000000 times?

b.espahbod 03-15-2009 13:28

this is 2000000000000001st

but whatever you like

rxmd 03-15-2009 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krosya (Post 1013495)
Wasnt this done/asked here, like 2000000000000000 times?

Yes, but not yet by everybody. (Courtesy of Karl Valentin.)

Also I like the "why?" in the poll question, as if I could do anything else except clicking on one of the two options.

astroman 03-15-2009 14:12

Ziess Ikon,why because I own one

And lets be nice people

35mmdelux 03-15-2009 14:37

I comes down to two items: 1) the industrial construction of the M7, and 2) affordability.

My choice M7.

Keith 03-15-2009 15:00

M7 ... because I'm a born again Leica snob! :p

helenhill 03-15-2009 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith (Post 1013576)
M7 ... because I'm a born again Leica snob! :p

hehehe....:eek:....:cool:

Best to YOU- H

lewis44 03-15-2009 15:14

M7.... Owned two and neither one had a problem. Took a Lickin' and kept on Tickin'

aizan 03-15-2009 15:50

whichever one looks the best with the lenses you have or want to get. =)

hiromu 03-15-2009 16:20

If you shoot with AE, go with ZI as M7's compensation is not easiest to use. If you expose manually, then go with M6.

bennyng 03-15-2009 16:21

I have both ZI and M7. I will always pick the ZI over the M7 as it handles much better, has cleaner framelines and a fantastic viewfinder. AE is a breeze too.

Cheers,

calexg 03-15-2009 18:36

For the record, I have never touched either. Having said that, I would go the Zeiss Ikon.

Why?

Because it has a brighter viewfinder. Because the way you adjust exposure compensation is genius. Because it's smaller and lighter. Because the rangefinder baselength is longer.

I bought my M4-2 because I wanted something tough and manual--no electronics whatsoever. I use the camera to take pictures of things that give me time to think about exposure. If I wanted to shoot candids or street shots, I would probably go for a camera with AE--something small, lightweight, and inconspicuous. It would be the Zeiss Ikon, for sure. It costs less, and I don't care that it's not as heavy-duty as the M7 because I don't see myself ever treating it poorly (that's what the M4-2 is for!).

Just my 2.

Avotius 03-15-2009 20:05

for sure my choice would be the m7 because I have had the experience of 3 ZI's that had serious enough "must return" defects out of the box. I also prefer the shutter speed readout on the m7.

maddoc 03-15-2009 20:20

I have neither owned an M7 nor an ZI but played with both of them, the M7 had the better exposure info and much clearer rangefinder patch, the ZI has easier to see 28mm frame lines (wearing glasses). Since a clear and contrasty RF patch is more important for me than frame lines, I would buy the M7 if I had to choose between them.

On th eother hand, best value for the money is still the Hexar RF, IMHO.

calexg 03-15-2009 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddoc (Post 1013757)
On th eother hand, best value for the money is still the Hexar RF, IMHO.

Good point. OP: I'd consider the Hexar as well.

35mmdelux 03-15-2009 23:00

The .58 mag black M7 I shoot with is seriously unbelievable for the 35mm framelines. The AE makes shooting a piece of cake and the exp comp couldn't be easier (slight twist of the wheel) AFAIK.

matt335 03-15-2009 23:29

get both
 
If you go the M7 then you can probably afford the Ikon as well. Last week I held both cameras in my hands helping a friend make similar decision, and looked very closely at them both. The Ikon is a top little camera. I would actually prefer a M6TTL. It's also about "how it feels in your hands" and how "easily you bring it to your eye and grab an image". I think you will find that a M7 will last longer. Good luck with your decision. Getting a Leica is a lifetime decision. A friend for life.

drewbarb 03-15-2009 23:45

Never owned either one, but I've handled and looked through both.

Issues can crop up with any camera- and there are documented potential issues with each of these; but having read some about the subject, and talked with and listened to owners of both, I'd spend my money on a ZI first.

Reasons I'll cite are the faster flash sync and better (bigger, brighter, more flare resistant) finder- as well as the fact that I already have M3's, which will remain my primary 35mm shooters for now.

Keith 03-15-2009 23:53

Interesting that the two choices are running virtually neck and neck ... I started a similar poll about a year ago and the Ikon was a decisive winner.

I subsequently went on to sell my M7 and buy an Ikon and have no regrets ... in very low light shooting the Zeiss has no peer IMO. I do miss the feel of the M7 but would never buy another one as there were a couple of things about it that bothered me ... now and then though I do get overpowering urges to own a black paint MP! :p

Sam N 03-16-2009 00:07

I'm surprised that this is the M forum (as opposed to general RF or the ZI forum) and there is a tie. That speaks to how impressive the ZI is.

Anyway a new ZI would still cost way less than a used M7.

I tried to think of something I don't like about the ZI and I can't really think of anything.... maybe the fact that the tripod socket isn't centered, but the same applies to the M7. I've only tried using a tripod w/ it once anyway.

elshaneo 03-16-2009 00:23

My Personal Choice would definitely be the Leica M7, and in case that You want to sell it later, You won't likely lose anything on the resale value.

mfogiel 03-16-2009 01:37

The question is a bit confusing. The ZI comes only in the .74 magnification, and in my opinion outclasses the 0.72x M7 as a photographic tool, except for:
- a slightly higher noise level
- a MARGINALLY more delicate body - this includes the usual periodic RF misalignment
,on the other hand, not being built like a tank it also weighs less than a tank...

However, in other magnifications, the ZI simply does not exist, and so having to choose between a Bessa R3A or R4A and a M7 0.85 or 0.58, I definitely prefer the Leica, in fact I am looking to buy a 0.58x one currently...

notturtle 03-16-2009 01:58

mfogiel, The 0.58 body is fantastic for 24-35....

I like the feel of the leicas and they fit my hands. Others think differently; however, it mattered enough to me to get several MPs so the handling is the same on every body. It hurt, but was worth it to me.

I think it is also fair to say that RF misalignment is more frequently reported with the Z1, but that is not a major issue for everyone. I don't want my RF drifting as it will be three months before I can get it fixed. However, the real clincher for me was simply how the thing felt in my hands.

philipp.leser 03-16-2009 02:35

A new ZM comes with a warranty while a used M7 would probably not.

It's a tough decision. While buying a Bessa is usually motivated by their low cost, the ZM is a serious contender to the M7 and looks just as beautiful.

gavinlg 03-16-2009 03:37

I'd go the ZM, because it's a little different, lighter, better VF, higher shutter speeds etc.

I'd have an MP over a ZM but a ZM over nearly everything else.

ClaremontPhoto 03-16-2009 04:22

That's two people who would choose a camera because of how it looks.

Now, should I use Kodak film (yellow box) or Fuji film (green box), which one looks better?

RichardB 03-16-2009 05:26

I have two M7's with older style ASA detection. No problems. They are both 0.85 finders and I use 21mm 2.8 ASPH, 35mm Lux ASPH, 75 ASPH , 90 ASPH and 135mm 2.8. I have the 50mm 2.8M but have never had the need for it. I usually have motor M's on both M7's but do have a Leicavit. Exposure compensation is fast and easy once you learn to depress the shutter button and move the aperature rather than the comp dial. Never had a singe problem and the ergonomics with the Motor M's is superb.
I'm sure the Zeiss is a very well made camera. I have a Zeiss 21mm finder and its very bright well made Japanese component.
But the M7 has more drives available(at least what I ws able to find on the Zeiss site) and coming from M3 and M6 land, just feels good and does what i want when I want with minimal effort. !/2000 versas 1/1000 is really meaningless comparison.
I would advise that you use both in the configuration you will want i.e lenses/motors/Leicavit and then make a decision. Good luck!-Dick

marke 03-16-2009 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClaremontPhoto (Post 1013865)
That's two people who would choose a camera because of how it looks.

Now, should I use Kodak film (yellow box) or Fuji film (green box), which one looks better?

Well now, that all depends on what kind of mood you're in. If you're in a sunny mood, the green box might give all your pictures a magenta cast. Choose wisely.

Keith 03-16-2009 07:10

Impressive that the Zeiss has pulled ahead of the Leica in votes ... because the M7 in reality is a hell of a camera.

It's also interesting the way these two brilliant rangefinders seem to go head to head quite often here on the forum.

notturtle 03-16-2009 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith (Post 1013932)
Impressive that the Zeiss has pulled ahead of the Leica in votes ... because the M7 in reality is a hell of a camera.

It's also interesting the way these two brilliant rangefinders seem to go head to head quite often here on the forum.

its great we have a choice - between the Bessas, Z1s and Leicas most budgets are catered for. Who would have predicted that 5 years ago? ... and we have the R4A/M, loads of new lenses etc.

lawrence 03-16-2009 09:38

I went for a couple of M6TTLs and both have had wind-on issues, which were fixed by CCR of Luton. I do like having one camera with the 0.58 finder and the other with the 0.72 and I don't necessarily see the additional weight as a drawback as the greater mass leads to greater stability and I love the quietness of the shutter. What cannot stand is the film loading. I know some people can be very fast with this but the technique has eluded me -- I prefer to load my fifty year old Canon L1. I do like the exposure LEDs at the bottom of the finder as they're easy to see, even when wearing glasses.

PS. Sorry, I realise this thread is about the M7 but there are points of similarity between this and the M6TTL.

MRohlfing 03-16-2009 10:07

Get the ZM!

The camera industry needs your money!

What's the use of buying old stuff? :D

We want to see more great cameras for film from Cosina in the future!

Rob-F 03-16-2009 10:24

I have handled the Zeiss in the store (Central Camera, while in Chicago) but I don't own one. I do own and use an M7. One thing I wanted to point out is that the Zeiss has no 75mm framelines, just in case that's important. And since the 75 brings up the 50mm frame along with the 75, on an M body, I'm sure it will do the same on the Zeiss--and that is not really helpful, since you would have a 50mm frameline for a 75mm lens.

If you wear glasses, check that you can see the 28mm frames well enough before buying.

Sam N 03-16-2009 11:11

The framelines are an interesting point. I (like many people) don't use any RF lenses longer than 50mm, but I think a 35/75 combo might be nice. It seems like the only available m-mount 85mm is the extremely expensive German-made Zeiss. On the other hand, the ZI's VF is less cluttered (only 4 framelines total vs 6).

Another bonus with the ZI is that it never had a problem with patch flare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by notturtle (Post 1013970)
its great we have a choice - between the Bessas, Z1s and Leicas most budgets are catered for. Who would have predicted that 5 years ago? ... and we have the R4A/M, loads of new lenses etc.

Agreed, but it's a ZI (Zeiss Ikon) not Z1. I see this a lot with roman numerals (people writing "Canon 1D Mark 111") but the I in ZI isn't even a number.

kxl 03-16-2009 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-F (Post 1014059)
I have handled the Zeiss in the store (Central Camera, while in Chicago) but I don't own one. I do own and use an M7. One thing I wanted to point out is that the Zeiss has no 75mm framelines, just in case that's important. And since the 75 brings up the 50mm frame along with the 75, on an M body, I'm sure it will do the same on the Zeiss--and that is not really helpful, since you would have a 50mm frameline for a 75mm lens.

If you wear glasses, check that you can see the 28mm frames well enough before buying.


Just to confirm -- yes, a 75mm (at least the Summarit-M) does bring up the 50mm framelines on the ZI. However, I prefer a 35/85 lens conbo rather than a 35/75... It mirrors my SLR lens combo. :D

rxmd 03-16-2009 15:44

And using a 90 with the 85 framelines is no problem at all.

Jim Evidon 03-17-2009 19:56

"... a slightly higher noise level..."...??????
Is someone smoking funny stuff?

calexg 03-17-2009 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Evidon (Post 1015173)
"... a slightly higher noise level..."...??????
Is someone smoking funny stuff?

The sound is more "metallic" than a cloth-shuttered M camera. I'm pretty sure they are both just as quiet.

ChrisN 03-18-2009 04:01

A black M7 would be a nice partner for my M4, but I'd want it with the 0.58 viewfinder please.


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