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-   -   DP0 Quattro review (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154433)

GaryLH 02-09-2016 10:50

DP0 Quattro review
 
Just saw this interesting review of the dp0 Quattro. While I don't agree 100% w/ everything, he does come from a history w/ the original dp1 (way back when, pre-Merrill).

http://www.exposedmoment.com/2016/02...ro-review.html

The way I see it...bottom line
- way creamy smooth look (don't care about hi-res), get a pre-Merrill
- want best tonal, color, detail get a Merrill
- want improved af, one stop better high ISO, punchier colors get Quattro
- want wider than 28, you
-- use the gw3 adapter from Ricoh GR on dp1 Merrill or
-- get a dp0 Quattro or
-- get an sigma dlsr - sd1 Merrill.
- awb is one of sigma's biggest weakness IMHO, doesn't matter which model
- need fast af or a more general shooter, use a different camera
- foveon sensor cameras are the best monochrome shooters outside of the Leica monochrome or a converted Bayer sensor camera.

I use my sigma camera these days for detail, still life and landscape work, though in a pinch I have used for street (because I didn't have my Ricoh GR). I still have my Merrill cameras...but I do have dp0 and dp2 Quattro..

The sd next gen is over due.. Got me wondering what is happening there.. Are they rethinking the Quattro or need more time to improve the hw design..they are a small company w/ limited resources..

Personally, I wish they would make a m43 or apsc csc foveon sensor. They already have a set of great lenses for m43 and apsc. I would prefer m43 just because of the wide range of lenses that already exist..

Gary

Samouraļ 02-11-2016 07:52

Nice to read a new review of the DP0. I like this author's style. He is correct in his opinion of the handling:
Quote:

If I had to evaluate usability of overall execution in a single word, I would have to call it "surprising." In is not that camera is hard to use - in fact it is very simple and generally natural to use. But the shortcomings are so unexpected that I am not sure how these decisions could've been made.
I tried the RX1RmII and couldn't stand the ergonomics (all of the Sony cameras require wrestling, really). Likewise, the Merrills in comparison to the Quattros. The Quattros feel 'just right' to me.

I really hope that Sigma is skipping the SD1Q this time around. It's too little, too late to release another professional body with this sensor. As for wishes and dreams, I'd kill for a Square or 4x3 Merrill-mkII sensor with a global shutter in an ILMC (full frame or 22x16mm)

GaryLH 02-11-2016 11:49

After picking up the dp0, I have less reason to get a sd1q, admittedly. The sd1m weighs more than my Nikon dslr but is very versatile when u can use some of the great Sigma zooms and primes on it. But af speed is actually a hair slower the the DP Quattro camera IMHO. I'm sure the new sd1q if it comes out will have faster af speed then the sd1m, but now that I have the dp0q, I would probably pick the next gen sd1 if it had a different sensor or improved pseudo Bayer algo so that it behaves more like a Merrill.. Where the Quattro shines is the limunance channel. But the m43 csc is something I wouldn't think twice about buying :p.

Gary

GaryLH 02-11-2016 12:00

I forgot to mention that according to an interview awhile back, sigma mentioned that they do all their final lens testing on a rig that uses a sigma sensor, whether we are talking about Nikon or canon or m43 or e mount or their own sigma mount lenses. So they at least have the basis to work on a mirrorless csc design of their own. It would be a far cry from a test mount setup to a usable csc design, but at least they have some sort of idea of what needs to be done.

One of my suspicions on lack of work here, is the CPU and digital path horsepower and throughput. While it is one thing to do something for a test rig, it is another to meet the demands of real world users. They really probably don't have the budget or experience hw engineers to do all the new designs required. Given the limited number of users world wide, they can't spend the money on too many different product lines.

At least the DP series keeps them in the game. Anyway doesn't mean I can't wish :D

Gary

Samouraļ 02-16-2016 19:38

The Merrill files can't be more hardware intensive than the Quattro's, right? I'd be pleased as punch with a Merrill Redux lineup with the performance improvements of the Quattros.

I had an SD1M and sold it again because the AF was so poor. Felt slower than my DP Merrills, amazingly enough. I don't know how that's possible, DSLR AF being as mature as it is.

---

Now, if Sigma is doing lens test benching on Sigma sensors, that must mean that they have prototype full-frame Foveon sensors that are functional. What I wouldn't give to try that, even if it's a disembodied module attached to a computer.

GaryLH 02-16-2016 19:58

We are definitely all spoiled by modern af.

I suspect they didn't design in enough CPU horsepower to handle both the digital path work and the af speed to make it comparible to more modern designs like the Nikon D700 let alone a D810. To me, the af speed is around D200, maybe slightly below.

A Merrill redux using the CPU equivelant from the Quattro would most likely improve the sd1m.

I would love to c live view added as well. I could remove the ir filter and shoot full spectrum or do 720Nm ir and use live view to focus.. I could shoot ir w/ the sd1m, but I would have play games to get accurate focus or shoot everything at infinity.

Gary

Keith 02-16-2016 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samouraļ (Post 2584739)
The Merrill files can't be more hardware intensive than the Quattro's, right? I'd be pleased as punch with a Merrill Redux lineup with the performance improvements of the Quattros.

I had an SD1M and sold it again because the AF was so poor. Felt slower than my DP Merrills, amazingly enough. I don't know how that's possible, DSLR AF being as mature as it is.

---

Now, if Sigma is doing lens test benching on Sigma sensors, that must mean that they have prototype full-frame Foveon sensors that are functional. What I wouldn't give to try that, even if it's a disembodied module attached to a computer.


Interesting you should say that about the SD1M's AF capabilities ... I haven't found that at all. I tend to use the AF button separate to the shutter when taking photos with any DSLR ... it allows me to understand what the camera's AF system needs to gain focus before worrying too much about composition and exposure.

BlackXList 02-16-2016 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryLH (Post 2582895)
I forgot to mention that according to an interview awhile back, sigma mentioned that they do all their final lens testing on a rig that uses a sigma sensor, whether we are talking about Nikon or canon or m43 or e mount or their own sigma mount lenses.
Gary

They do, and it's the one thing that bothers me about their process.

The art lenses are fantastic, they do need calibration before use, and honestly it's a small price to pay, I do wonder if factory calibrating them to a multi layered sensor for end use on a bayer sensor leads to some of the need for tweaking.

That's purely layman's speculation, and I actually think the dock is great in use, and the lenses are spectacular, it's just a query.

jarski 02-16-2016 23:34

Back button helps a bit, least its giving impression that steps happen more to photographers shedule rather than cameras.

After reading the review in OP, have to say what interest I had DP Quattro's waned off.

GaryLH 02-16-2016 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackXList (Post 2584755)
They do, and it's the one thing that bothers me about their process.

The art lenses are fantastic, they do need calibration before use, and honestly it's a small price to pay, I do wonder if factory calibrating them to a multi layered sensor for end use on a bayer sensor leads to some of the need for tweaking.

That's purely layman's speculation, and I actually think the dock is great in use, and the lenses are spectacular, it's just a query.

...oh well.. My speculation then.. :)

Could be the difference between manufacturers (Nikon, Canon, etc) in terms of the aa & ir filter thickness ahead of the sensor. Lensrental.com did a pretty write up about the effects of different thicknesses. It could also just be the difference in manufacturing tolerances between camera bodies vs the what the testing jig was setup for (the Nikon or Canon spec of sensor to flange distance).

Gary

Samouraļ 02-18-2016 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith (Post 2584747)
Interesting you should say that about the SD1M's AF capabilities ... I haven't found that at all. I tend to use the AF button separate to the shutter when taking photos with any DSLR ... it allows me to understand what the camera's AF system needs to gain focus before worrying too much about composition and exposure.

I decouple my AF and Shutter Release on my cameras as well, including the DPQ cameras, but I don't see how that's relevant.

Different experiences as to AF reliability and speed, I suppose. But I can't see how anyone who has used a DSLR could find the AF on the SD1M to be a usable or pleasant experience. Perhaps I subconsciously apologize when using the DPM cameras because they are compact, live view cameras, and not professional DSLRs.


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