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-   -   Compatibility of Nikon-S / old Contax lenses mounted on M-mount bodies using an Amede (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79631)

jonmanjiro 09-16-2009 18:56

Compatibility of Nikon-S / old Contax lenses mounted on M-mount bodies using an Amede
 
Disclaimer: I thought about starting this thread in the Nikon forum, but decided to start it in this forum so it can be a combined resource for both Nikon and Contax mount lenses.

Background: Lately, there's a lot of interest in Amedeo type adapters for mounting Nikon S-mount lenses and old Contax mount lenses on M-mount bodies, so its about time we had a registry of what lenses can/cannot be mounted and used on M-mount bodies via these types of adapters. Feel free to add more information and fill in any gaps, especially concerning Contax lenses as I have no experience there.

Compatibility: Generally speaking, all internal mount 5cm/50mm lenses, and I think most external mount 5cm/50mm and longer lenses, work fine (although confirmation is needed on some lenses). It's the wide angle lenses with large rear elements that create problems. Below is a list of Nikon S-mount lenses (I may have missed some so please add them if I have) with a comment on compatibility for each lens.


For reference, here's a list of the Nikkor lens designations. In the case of the Nikkor wides, "W" just means "wide".

T= three elements
Q= four elements
P= five elements
H= six elements
S= seven elements
O= eight elements
N= nine elements
U= ten elements
UD= eleven elements

**************************************************

NIKON S-MOUNT COMPATIBILITY LIST


S-MOUNT NIKKORS

Nikkor-O 2.1cm f4 (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)
W-Nikkor 2.5cm f4 (NO - will mount but cannot be focused)
W-Nikkor 2.8cm f3.5 (YES - will mount and focus from infinity to 6ft, but may come into contact with focus cam between 6ft and 3ft)
W-Nikkor 3.5cm f3.5 (YES - will mount and focus properly)
W-Nikkor 3.5cm f2.5 (YES - will mount and focus properly)
W-Nikkor 3.5cm f1.8 (vintage/reissue) (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)

Nikkor-P 5cm f3.5 Micro (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Nikkor-H 5cm f2 (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Nikkor-S 5cm f1.5 (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Nikkor-S 5cm f1.4 (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Nikkor-S 50mm f1.4 (Olympic/Millennium) (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Nikkor-N 5cm f1.1 internal mount (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)
Nikkor-N 5cm f1.1 external mount (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)

Nikkor-P 8.5cm f2 (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Nikkor-S 8.5cm f1.5 (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Nikkor-T 10.5cm f4 (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Nikkor-P 10.5cm f2.5 (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Nikkor-Q 13.5cm f4.0 (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Nikkor-Q 13.5cm f3.5 (YES - will mount and focus properly)

SC/S-MOUNT VOIGTLANDER/ZEISS

Voigtlander SC Skopar 21mm f4 (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)
Voigtlander SC Skopar 25mm f4 (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)
Voigtlander SC Skopar 28mm f3.5 (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)
Voigtlander SC Skopar 35mm f2.5 (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)

Zeiss S-Sonnar 50mm f1.5 (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Voigtlander S-Nokton 50mm f1.5 Aspherical (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Voigtlander S-Skopar 50mm f2.5 (should work - confirmation needed)
Voigtlander S-Heliar 50mm f3.5 (YES - will mount and focus properly)

Voigtlander S-Apo-Lanther 85mm f3.5 (YES - will mount and focus properly)

S-MOUNT LENSES BY OTHER MAKERS

Fujinon 5cm f/1.2 (should work - confirmation needed)

W-Komura 35/2.8 (should work - confirmation needed)
Komura80/1.8 (should work - confirmation needed)
Komura 135/3.5 (should work - confirmation needed)

Soligor 135/3.5 (should work - confirmation needed)

W Tanar 35mm f/2.8 (should work - confirmation needed)
Tele-Tanar 13.5cm f/3.5 (should work - confirmation needed)

Zunow 50/1.1 (should work - confirmation needed)

**************************************************

jonmanjiro 09-16-2009 19:09

Here's the list for Contax mount lenses (help me out here guys!).

**************************************************

CONTAX C-MOUNT COMPATIBILITY LIST


CARL
ZEISS CONTAX (C) MOUNT LENSES

Zeiss Opton 21/4.5 (confirmation needed)
Carl Zeiss 21/4.5 Biogon (confirmation needed)
28/8 Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar (YES - will mount, not focus-coupled)
35/4.5 Carl Zeiss Jena Orthometar (YES - will mount and focus properly)
35/2.8 Carl Zeiss Jena Biometar (YES - will mount and focus properly)
pre-WWII Carl Zeiss Jena 35/2.8 Biogon (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)
post-WWII Jena ("E. German") coated version (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)
35/2.8 Zeiss-Opton (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)
35/2.8 Carl Zeiss ("W. German") Biogon (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)
35/3.5 Zeiss-Opton (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)
35/3.5 Carl Zeiss Planar (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)


Carl Zeiss-Opton 5cm f2 Sonnar (rigid) (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Carl Zeiss-Opton 5cm f2 Sonnar (collapsible) (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Carl Zeiss-Option 5cm f1.5 Sonnar (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Post-war Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm f2 (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Pre-war and Wartime Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm f1.5 (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Post-war Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm f1.5 (MAYBE - large ring around rear element, may interfer with the rangefinder mechanism on some cameras)

pre-WWII 85/4 Triotar (YES - will mount and focus properly)
super-rare direct mount 180/2.8 Olympia Sonnar (YES - will mount and focus properly)

OTHER CONTAX MOUNT LENSES

Nikkor-P 8.5cm f2 "C" (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Nikkor-S 8.5cm f1.5 "C" (should work - confirmation needed)
Nikkor-T 10.5cm f4 "C" (should work - confirmation needed)
Nikkor-P 10.5cm f2.5 "C" (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Nikkor-Q 13.5cm f4.0 "C" (should work - confirmation needed)
Nikkor-Q 13.5cm f3.5 "C" (YES - will mount and focus properly)

Voigtlander SC Skopar 21mm f4 (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)
Voigtlander SC Skopar 25mm f4 (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)
Voigtlander SC Skopar 28mm f3.5 (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)
Voigtlander SC Skopar 35mm f2.5 (NO - rear element too large, interferes with rangefinder mechanism)

Contax-mount J-3 (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Helios-103 53/1.8 works fine (YES - will mount and focus properly)
Kiev 85/2 Sonnar (YES - will mount and focus properly)

**************************************************

fbf 09-16-2009 19:17

wow, great job Jon. Thank you for sharing.
I have used the older amedeo adapter with 50/1.4 millennium on leica m bodies. It works very well and focus is perfect.

BillBingham2 09-16-2009 19:23

Jon,

As always great work.

Sad to see the 35/1.8 will not work, one of the true jewels of the Nikkor line. I wonder if he took a somewhat different approach and abandoned the internal mount for only an external if an adapter could be made? Just a thought as I am FAT DUMB AND HAPPY with my S3-2000.

What about the ZI 50 that came out last summer or so? Wouldn't that be on the list too?

Hope all is well over on that side of the world. Say hi at home from us.

B2 (;->

LeicaFoReVer 09-16-2009 19:28

thanks for the great reference!
what about industar lenses? or russian make lenses?

jonmanjiro 09-16-2009 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeicaFoReVer (Post 1142535)
thanks for the great reference!
what about industar lenses? or russian make lenses?

yup, if anyone has info on these lenses, please add it!

jmkelly 09-16-2009 19:48

I (and others) can confirm that the CZJ 50/1.5, CZO 50/1.5 and 50/2, and J-3 Contax-mount lenses work perfectly on the Contax-to-M adapter.

BillBingham2 09-16-2009 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro (Post 1142536)
.....Oh, and the Zeiss 50/1.5 works fine. I snuck it into the Cosina/Voigtlander list ;)

That you did, oooopppss. Never Mind......

B2 (;->

jonmanjiro 09-16-2009 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmkelly (Post 1142546)
I (and others) can confirm that the CZJ 50/1.5, CZO 50/1.5 and 50/2, and J-3 Contax-mount lenses work perfectly on the Contax-to-M adapter.

Thanks I just added them to the list.

jonmanjiro 09-16-2009 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalintrigue (Post 1142572)
I'm going to try this with an M4-2...

Thanks for the confirmation on the Nikkor 35/3.5. Looking forward to hear how the M4-2 project works out!

Brian Sweeney 09-17-2009 01:49

> CONTAX (C) MOUNT LENSES

> CZJ 50/1.5
> CZO 50/1.5
> CZO 50/2


I can confirm that the Post War Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm f2 works with an adapter. It is Rigid mount, the optics are larger in diameter than the pre-war version.

The Pre-war and Wartime Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 lenses are a different construction and dimensions than the PostWar Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5. The latter lens does not have ears on the aperture ring.

I have a Post-War Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5. The ring around the rear group is larger than the Opton and pre-war F1.5 Sonnars, and it can interfere with the RF pickup wheel of some cameras when used with an adapter.

Benjamin Marks 09-17-2009 03:01

Jon: I have been using some of these lenses on my M8. I have two amadeo adapters (1 Contax, 1 Nikon). I can confirm:

Zeiss-Opton 50/2 Sonnar (rigid) s/n 707611 works fine
CZJ 5 cm/2 Sonnar (collapsible) s/n 2207904 works fine
Zeiss-Option 50/1.5 Sonnar s/n 713519 works fine
Nikkon-S.C. 5cm./1.4 works fine
Millenium Nikkor 50/1.4 works fine
Helios-103 53/1.8 works fine
Kiev 85/2 Sonnar (eternal mount) works fine
Voigtlander S-Heliar 50/3.5 works fine

Voigtlander 28/3.5 does not work
Voigtlander 35/2.5 does not work
(both due to rear element blockage)

I have a WA adapter coming from Amadeo. My 50/2 Sonnar collapsible is out in the car -- if the s/n will tell you something special, let me know.

Good idea to start a list.

Ben Marks

[Edit: my collapsible is actually a Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm f:2 Sonnar]

jonmanjiro 09-17-2009 04:03

Brian, Ben, thanks for the new information! I've just updated the lists.

Ben, I don't know enough about Carl Zeiss lenses yet to know if I should also be noting serial numbers. Hoping you Carl Zeiss/Contax guys can help me out on this one!

TWoK 09-18-2009 16:10

Jon, thanks for the list!

squirrel$$$bandit 09-18-2009 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Sweeney (Post 1142680)
I have a Post-War Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5. The ring around the rear group is larger than the Opton and pre-war F1.5 Sonnars, and it can interfere with the RF pickup wheel of some cameras when used with an adapter.

I sold this lens to Brian, and I can confirm his story! It did not focus correctly on my R-D1 with Amedeo's adapter--it was correct at minimum distance and increasingly front-focused towards infinity. According to Brian's tests, it DID focus correctly on an actual Contax. The CZ 50/1.5 I now have does focus perfectly with Amedeo's adapter on both the R-D1 and M7.

squirrel$$$bandit 09-18-2009 16:31

Second variation to that list, BTW--my Helios-103 did not fit comfortably into the adapter at first, and I actually had to file down the edge of the barrel to make it fit. It works perfectly now, though. I chalked this up to the probably wider tolerances in its manufacture.

furcafe 09-18-2009 17:18

As you wrote, the only inherently problematic lenses are the wides w/large rear elements, the main ones on the Contax side being the pre-WWII Carl Zeiss Jena 35/2.8 Biogon & its post-WWII Jena ("E. German") coated version (plus their Soviet progeny) & the 35/2.8 Zeiss-Opton or Carl Zeiss ("W. German") Biogon & 35/3.5 Zeiss-Opton or Carl Zeiss Planar. All of the 50mm lenses & longer should fit; if they don't, it's caused by differences in tolerances & workmanship between individual lenses (this is particularly true of wartime & immediate postwar Jena lenses & their Soviet progeny) + differences between individual adapters themselves. The tolerances can be pretty tight: an analogous example is that I have 35/2.8 CZJ Biogon that fits fine on my original Nikon SPs, but doesn't quite mount on the S3 2000 or SP 2005, I think because of a slightly thicker area around the shutter in the modern Nikons. IIRC, you had a similar problem w/mounting the CV 50/3.5 Heliar on your S3 2000.

Same goes for all the telephotos (the only 1 I don't have personal experience with is the pre-WWII 85/4 Triotar & super-rare direct mount 180/2.8 Olympia Sonnar).

Other wides that should work:

28/8 Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar (though it isn't focus-coupled anyway)
35/4.5 Carl Zeiss Jena Orthometar
35/2.8 Carl Zeiss Jena Biometar

I haven't tried it, but my understanding is that the Zeiss-Opton or Carl Zeiss 21/4.5 Biogon may work if the rear element protection ring is removed (same goes for the Orion & Orion copies).

jonmanjiro 09-18-2009 23:37

thanks for the extra info. i'll update the lists accordingly.

chris, the problem i had with my heliar 50/3.5 not mounting on my SP 2005 and S3 2000 was caused by a slightly thicker locking tab on the lens. just another one of those problems caused by slight differences between samples.

furcafe 09-19-2009 05:02

The photos are very helpful for illustrating what the problem is w/some of the wides. You could have substituted the Zeiss-Opton/Carl Zeiss 35 Biogon or Planar for the Nikon 35/1.8 & you would have the same situation, i.e., the rear element poking beyond the adapter cam.

FYI, on your list of lenses that work, you can add these specific telephotos:

85/2 Carl Zeiss Jena, Zeiss-Opton, & Carl Zeiss Sonnars
85/4 Zeiss-Opton or Carl Zeiss Triotar
135/4 Carl Zeiss Jena, Zeiss-Opton, & Carl Zeiss Sonnars
180/6.3 Carl Zeiss Jena Tele-Tessar

On a persnickety nomenclature note, all the lenses made in Jena, both pre & post-WWII were marked w/the focal length in cm, so 5cm rather than 50mm. For some reason, after WWII, the reestablished CZ in the west decided that all the Zeiss-Opton (always hyphenated) & Carl Zeiss lenses were to be marked in mm, which is what I've used in my thread posts. Nippon Kogaku obviously kept w/the pre-WWII standard.

Brian Sweeney 09-19-2009 05:55

Of course, the 5cm marking is more "accurate" as none of the Zeiss, Leica, or Nikkor lenses are actually 50mm focal length. Zeiss lenses are ~52.4mm, Leica and Nikkor lenses are closer to 51.6mm. The 5cm is a nice way of stating this.

My Wollensak Raptar F1.5 is marked 51mm.

photovdz 09-22-2009 12:49

I confirm that the prewar orthometar works fine

Benjamin Marks 09-28-2009 17:49

Just FYI -- I received my Amadeo wide-angle adapter. CV 28 and 25 in S-Mount won't work -- the rear element housing is just too large.

TWoK 09-28-2009 17:58

The 5cm f/1.1 will not work with the Amedeo adapter.

jonmanjiro 09-28-2009 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWoK (Post 1153359)
The 5cm f/1.1 will not work with the Amedeo adapter.

That's too bad. Maybe the head bartender has been fooling us all along with this photo below (found here)...


TWoK 09-28-2009 19:29

I could mount it for sure, just not turn it to focus, unless mounted with the lens set to MFD. Then I could rotate between about .9m and 1m. I suspect with a bit of filing it might work.

TWoK 10-20-2009 03:50

I can mount and use my 2.8cm f/3.5, but the rf coupling wheel does not slip past the rear of my lens.

naruto 11-20-2009 02:27

By pure accident, I managed to get a chrome Nikkor P.C. 8.5cm f/2 Nippon Kogaku Japan lens. Will the Amadeo adapter work with this lens?

Also, which camera body is best suited for this lens?

Thanks.

Mongo Park 11-21-2009 02:42

Excellent thread jonmanjiro. Am thinking about getting Amedeo's adapter Nikon to Leica for use with the Zeiss S Sonnar 50 1,5. Do you have any shots using that combination that you could post? Also, are there any shortcomings using that combination that you may have discovered?

Thanks in advance.

Mark

Brian Sweeney 11-21-2009 03:48

On the Nikon P.C. 8.5cm F2: it will work with an adapter. Look for a 'C' on the side of the barrel to indicate if it is S-Mount or Contax mount. Nikon also made this lens in LTM. It might be cheaper to sell/trade this one, and then get the LTM version. I have this lens in all three mounts. I use the LTM version on th Canon P, Canon 7, Leica M3, and Leica M2.

naruto 11-21-2009 04:34

Brian: there is no C on the barrel, it is a S-mount. From the mir.com.my site, I found the lens is from 50s when there was no MIOJ engraved on the lens.

As I mentioned in the thread on the Nikon RF forum, the hassle of trading or selling the lens is too much. I'd rather get an adapter. If you have any offers for trading the lens let me know. :)

jonmanjiro 11-22-2009 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mongo Park (Post 1194026)
Excellent thread jonmanjiro. Am thinking about getting Amedeo's adapter Nikon to Leica for use with the Zeiss S Sonnar 50 1,5. Do you have any shots using that combination that you could post? Also, are there any shortcomings using that combination that you may have discovered?

Thanks in advance.

Mark

Mark, some may find the long focus throw and rotating aperture ring of the Zeiss S Sonnar a shortcoming, but it doesn't worry me. On the contrary, I prefer the longer focus throw for pinpoint focusing.

The shots below were taken with a Zeiss S Sonnar & Amedeo adapter combo on a Zeiss Ikon. I was shooting Provia 100F @ f1.5 (or maybe f2?) at maybe around 1/30 to 1/60 (barely sufficient light for hand holding).


PIE 2009 01 by jonmanjiro, on Flickr



PIE 2009 02 by jonmanjiro, on Flickr

raid 11-22-2009 16:56

I am new to using an Amedeo adapter, so this thread is very useful. Thanks. The J-9 85/2 seems to work fine.

jonmanjiro 11-22-2009 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalintrigue (Post 1195070)
Jon, is the adapter you used the one Amedeo built with the Nikon SP helical?

Yes, that's the adapter I used Robert. Shouldn't make a difference though, right?

meven 11-22-2009 20:25

I want to add that my Nokton-S 50mm f1.5 works fine with the S to M Amedeo Adapter. It mounts and focuses perfectly.

Leica M8 + Nokton-S 50mm f1.5 with S to M Amedeo Adapter

Mongo Park 11-23-2009 01:41

Many thanks Jon, for pics and answer.

Waterman100 10-28-2010 20:31

Framelines
 
I have a two Nikon S-mount RF lenses, 50mm and 10.5mm, and I plan to buy a 35/f2.5 when I could find it.

When using an Amedeo adapter with these lenses on a M body, will the correct framelines be brought up?

I was told that the adapter only brings up the 50 frameline and Amedeo needs to customize the adapter for other framelines. Is this correct?


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