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-   -   Sensor Replacement Policy 2017 (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161146)

Calzone 05-15-2017 08:09

Sensor Replacement Policy 2017
 
Until 15 August 2017 the current policy of free sensor replacement for effected models (M9, M9-P, MM, and M-E) if affected by the corrosion problem continues.

Post 16 August 2017 the above still applies, but with the stipulation that the camera has been purchased new within the past 5 years.

Also post 16 August 2017 there is a new program for cameras purchased more than 5 years ago, where the customer pays a portion of the replacement costs for the sensor replacement (982 euros/ 825 euros plus 19% VAT) with the bonus of a "Free General Overhaul" with a one year warranty.

The upgrade offers now have more attractive terms but are limited to Typ 240 generation cameras.

I had my MM undergo sensor replacement. I sent it in early December last year, was told 8-10 weeks, but it took 12 weeks..

Cal

Calzone 05-15-2017 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnwolf (Post 2724333)
Very interesting, Cal. Where did you learn this?

I guess those immediately affected will be second-hand owners (completely out of luck) and M9 owners who bought more than five years ago. I believe the M-E and MM were introduced five years ago, so those owners will have to pay close attention to their expiration date.

Glad I had mine done last year. I always considered it pretty generous of Leica to fix cameras of second-hand owners, which I am.

John

John,

I got this info from Leica. If you PM your E-mail I'll forward you the E-mail I received.

Kinda hurry up for people who bought used CCD cameras. The envelope is closing, and the phase out begins.

If you want your sensor replacement for free the time is now. Hurry-up.

Cal

Godfrey 05-15-2017 08:45

Sounds like a reasonable update to the program.

G

Ko.Fe. 05-15-2017 08:55

Well, knowing what Leica isn't something cheap, paying 852 + VAT Euro for sensor replacement and this :

*The general overhaul of the Leica M-camera includes the following items:

• Cleaning and overhaul of the shutter cocking mechanisms
• Cleaning and maintenance/repair of the multifunction wheel
• Cleaning of the main switch and shutter speed dial
• Adjustment of the baseplate locking system
• Refurbishment of engravings
• Renewal of the protective film on the baseplate
• Maintenance/repair of viewfinder displays

seems to be OK.

This should be visible for everyone, I guess:

http://en.leica-camera.com/World-of-...-camera-models

Calzone 05-15-2017 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnwolf (Post 2724339)
That's alright, I'll wait for the announcement.

I think Leica can expect a flood of cameras for inspection starting now.

John

John,

Could be a bottleneck in the last minute rush.

Cal

Calzone 05-15-2017 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. (Post 2724340)
Well, knowing what Leica isn't something cheap, paying 852 + VAT Euro for sensor replacement and this :

*The general overhaul of the Leica M-camera includes the following items:

Cleaning and overhaul of the shutter cocking mechanisms
Cleaning and maintenance/repair of the multifunction wheel
Cleaning of the main switch and shutter speed dial
Adjustment of the baseplate locking system
Refurbishment of engravings
Renewal of the protective film on the baseplate
Maintenance/repair of viewfinder displays

seems to be OK.

This should be visible for everyone, I guess:

http://en.leica-camera.com/World-of-...-camera-models

Ko-Fe,

Thanks for the link.

Cal

BillBingham2 05-15-2017 09:05

I think they are missing out on a possible review source. For folks who purchased a camera used they could increase the cost by 50% and support the folks who did not feel used supported at a level befitting the Leica image.

I just don't see a lot of opportunity for independent repair people to make a business out of working on digital M's. My guess is that it would take a lot of capital investment to buy specialized equipment.

B2 (;->

JMQ 05-15-2017 09:49

Thanks Cal. I also received the email from Leica about the new policy earlier today. My 4-year old M9M did not develop the symptoms of the dreaded pox as yet....does anyone know how to induce it?

Calzone 05-15-2017 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMQ (Post 2724359)
Thanks Cal. I also received the email from Leica about the new policy earlier today. My 4-year old M9M did not develop the symptoms of the dreaded pox as yet....does anyone know how to induce it?

Jean-Marc,

A humid enviornment will encourage the corrosion.

My sensor on my MM only had a trace. The corrosion was only visible in some files.

Also my MM I got delivery about 5 months from the initial fall release. Might my camera be over 5 years old? I got it late January or early February; shot the camera for two years just downloading onto a computer, and now I think I have been printing for now three years.

Cal

mjc 05-15-2017 12:05

M9 Sensor Replacement 2017
 
Some news on changes to the conditions governing M9 sensor replacement:

http://en.leica-camera.com/World-of-...-camera-models

"From 16 August 2017, and until further notice, we will offer our customers the following new programme for all camera models mentioned above that were purchased longer than five years ago. Here, the customer pays a share of the replacement costs for the affected CCD sensor amounting to 982 euros (825 euros plus 19% VAT). Included in this programme is a free general overhaul* of your Leica M camera and a one year warranty on the same terms as for new products."

sevres_babylone 05-15-2017 12:18

Thank you for posting this. I had been procrastinating because I was using my M9 so much in situations -- wide open or nearly, dim bars -- where the corrosion wasn't noticeable.

Calzone 05-15-2017 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by sevres_babylone (Post 2724419)
Thank you for posting this. I had been procrastinating because I was using my M9 so much in situations -- wide open or nearly, dim bars -- where the corrosion wasn't noticeable.

S-B,

Hurry up. Don't loose out on your opportunity.

Best of luck.

Cal

Emile de Leon 05-15-2017 12:29

The parties...over..

raid 05-15-2017 12:34

This does not sound good. Basically, Leica is moving users to the M10.

Ranchu 05-15-2017 12:36

You would think they'd replace every sensor that became corroded, or might. You can get a rebel xs for $100 these days.

jsrockit 05-15-2017 12:40

So, this will affect used prices on M9 cameras that are over 5 years old?

JMQ 05-15-2017 12:49

John, this will absolutely affect all CCD cameras that are over 5 years old and still have the old sensor. I suppose the price for these cameras will drop by the sensor replacement cost or about USD$1000.

tajart 05-15-2017 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by raid (Post 2724427)
This does not sound good. Basically, Leica is moving users to the M10.

or to another brand?

JMQ 05-15-2017 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnwolf (Post 2724443)
I guess the question is, at what price would you purchase one, knowing you could face a $1K bill?

Then again, if five years has passed without an issue, can the camera be assumed to be immune?

It's also the hassle of having to wait 4-5 months in addition to the cost...I don't know about sensors being immune, I thought it's a matter of "when" and not "if"

jsrockit 05-15-2017 13:26

Yeah, but then again LCDs for the M8 are no longer available and people still buy them for around the same price as a few years ago.

Fraser 05-15-2017 13:43

Are there any cases of the replacement sensors going bad?

Leica M9s in the UK are now around 2000 so if they drop any further it may be cheaper to buy one with a replaced sensor rather than getting a repair.
I must have got my M9 mid 2010 had the sensor replaced June 2016, so maybe if I get another 5 years out of this sensor I should be doing ok!

Fraser 05-15-2017 13:49

Another thought,
Its a weird thing for Leica to announce as surely most of the sensors have been replaced so any that still need to be will be very low numbers I would of thought that the bad press would out weigh the remaining cost of replacements.

Keith 05-15-2017 14:04

This will have to create a few M9 bricks unfortunately ... but not too many hopefully.

As someone pointed out the party couldn't last forever.

bayernfan 05-15-2017 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMQ (Post 2724433)
John, this will absolutely affect all CCD cameras that are over 5 years old and still have the old sensor. I suppose the price for these cameras will drop by the sensor replacement cost or about USD$1000.

rofl :)

industry expert much?

ferider 05-15-2017 15:07

The easiest way for Leica to clean out the remaining 240 stock.

pyeh 05-15-2017 15:46

Jean Marc, certainly humidity is the thing that will set off the corrosion. You could accelerate it by wet cleaning it with something hygroscopic I guess but don't make it look too rough. Or you could leave it lensless in your bathroom while you shower.
I think you should send yours in for assessment and let them tell you. My MM sensor took about 4 weeks to get replaced by Leica's repairer in Melbourne, and my two M9s about the same amount of time to be done by Leica Japan. All were done earlier this year.
From the stories here, Leica US is also taking about 4 weeks.

icebear 05-15-2017 15:54

I have new sensors in my M9 and MM and consequently don't worry.
The replacement of the MM sensor after it was inspected and confirmed it had the corrosion, took 4 business days.;)

damonsong 05-15-2017 16:01

I think the good news is they will still replace for $1000.
I suspect that might hurt the used value of the M9/MM that have not been replaced. Might be a good gamble for people who wants one, it's not like the sensor will definitely go bad, right?

icebear 05-15-2017 16:33

My rough estimate ... there is a 98.56% chance that the sensor will go bad.
The remaining 1.44% are accounting for shelf queens in a climate controled cabinet with less than 20% humidity.
As I said though, ... a rough estimate:cool:

Huss 05-15-2017 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsong (Post 2724494)
it's not like the sensor will definitely go bad, right?

No, it will go bad. The majority of people here have had theirs replaced. Some people just don't notice because it doesn't show so much when shooting wide open snaps of cats.

Keith 05-15-2017 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huss (Post 2724503)
No, it will go bad. The majority of people here have had theirs replaced. Some people just don't notice because it doesn't show so much when shooting wide open snaps of cats.


That's a little dismissive Huss... in many ways the cat shooters have kept that company afloat. :confused:

Huss 05-15-2017 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith (Post 2724505)
That's a little dismissive Huss... in many ways the cat shooters have kept that company afloat. :confused:

Let's be honest Keith. They've kept the entire digital industry afloat.

:D

(Leicas are actually not so good for cat pics. My D750 is awesome for that!)

damonsong 05-15-2017 17:06

All the cat talks reminds me of a funny awkward story.

I once had 3 M3s, bought them in a package deal for lenses and had to sell some.
A Leica collector contacted me to view the M3s. During our meeting we started to talk about different lenses, and he mentioned the noctilux. I said I haven't bought one because of the size, I shoot leica because they are compact and I do carry around my gears, it's not like I'm just at home shooting cats. Then he was quiet, after a few seconds he said "well... I do shoot lots of cats at home...". The situation became very awkward from that point on.

Keith 05-15-2017 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huss (Post 2724507)
Let's be honest Keith. They've kept the entire digital industry afloat.

:D

(Leicas are actually not so good for cat pics. My D750 is awesome for that!)

True Huss yes ... lol :p

JMQ 05-15-2017 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyeh (Post 2724490)
Jean Marc, certainly humidity is the thing that will set off the corrosion. You could accelerate it by wet cleaning it with something hygroscopic I guess but don't make it look too rough. Or you could leave it lensless in your bathroom while you shower.
I think you should send yours in for assessment and let them tell you. My MM sensor took about 4 weeks to get replaced by Leica's repairer in Melbourne, and my two M9s about the same amount of time to be done by Leica Japan. All were done earlier this year.
From the stories here, Leica US is also taking about 4 weeks.

Thanks Pete...funny, I was thinking of doing exactly that....

Rayt 05-15-2017 20:28

I have a low mileage CCD MM with no issues so far but understand it is inevitable. So I can choose to "upgrade" to a CMOS MM now or later when the problem is confirmed?


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