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-   -   The effect of the Leica badge on price (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167967)

Huss 03-24-2019 23:15

The effect of the Leica badge on price
 
First off, I really like Leicas. I have a few.

But frankly, it's crazy how the red badge can add a serious price 'adjustment'.
To whit.. the Leica AF-C1. In essence it was a rebadged Minolta with slightly different styling. That goes for about $20.

Holy guacamole, the Leica version - $333 with 5 days left in the auction!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Vintag...YAAOSwHVdcjkNk

Are there other cameras rebadged as Leicas that show this behaviour on the used market? I don't think those Leica/Panasonic digicams do.

jvo 03-26-2019 06:59

most things, leica, rollei and contax among others - and it comes with a case!!!:bang:

B-9 03-26-2019 07:17

Minolta Riva Mini is the same as the Leica Mini

Recently prices have shot up to around 100$ still much less than the Leica branded variant.

nzeeman 03-26-2019 07:57

and not only on rebadged... just find any leica lens and find some from other brand that is sharper and with less distortion.. still leica will be 5x the price. . if you ask buyer why-leica glow or some other imaginary thing is answer... just say i love brand and its ok-no need to lie to yourself.

Huss 03-26-2019 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvo (Post 2877516)
most things, leica, rollei and contax among others - and it comes with a case!!!:bang:

I’m not talking about ‘real’ items like Leica M lenses, but the rebadged stuff.
I know there was a Rollei badged Bessa (R2?) that came with a ‘made in Germany’ 40mm 2.8 lens. This lens, that I own, looks exactly the same design and construction as CV lenses of the same era like the 50 2.5

wjlapier 03-26-2019 09:02

Leica C-Lux 3 and Lumix FX37 are basically the same. Internet discussions suggest a Leica tweak to the image output for the Leica version. I've never seen a comparison between the two. I bring up the C-Lux 3 because I have one. I think it's pretty much the same for all Leica Lumix cameras.

Emile de Leon 03-26-2019 09:12

Leica has better elves..

css9450 03-26-2019 10:05

They might be the same camera or lens deep down inside, but the one with the Leica logo will take eighteen times longer if it ever has to be sent back for warranty work or servicing.

Pioneer 03-26-2019 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emile de Leon (Post 2877537)
Leica has better elves..

Certainly those elves are better at marketing. :D

Archlich 03-26-2019 13:24

Fits well what these now overpriced compact cameras are intended for: fashion accessories. It all make sense once it's fashion right?

Emile de Leon 03-26-2019 13:35

Quote:

Certainly those elves are better at marketing.
Wealthy elves...so wealthy...they buy Rolexes..and Bentleys..
You can catch them driving around..from time to time...lol..
They like the 75mm Noct..for happy snaps..

Godfrey 03-26-2019 13:52

Ah, another delightful thread full of rangefinder camera enthusiasts enjoying*and lauding the only camera manufacturer still producing rangefinder cameras, both digital AND film..

What a load of bollocks this is.

G

nzeeman 03-26-2019 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfrey (Post 2877579)
Ah, another delightful thread full of rangefinder camera enthusiasts enjoying*and lauding the only camera manufacturer still producing rangefinder cameras, both digital AND film..

What a load of bollocks this is.

G

well if they put fair price they would be good... but they just make overpriced lenses and bodies now - half of them inferior to other manufacturers... so who cares about them still producing it when they just try to milk the money from fans...we can always buy old used stuff...

JoeLopez 03-26-2019 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huss (Post 2877300)
First off, I really like Leicas. I have a few.

But frankly, it's crazy how the red badge can add a serious price 'adjustment'.
To whit.. the Leica AF-C1. In essence it was a rebadged Minolta with slightly different styling. That goes for about $20.

Holy guacamole, the Leica version - $333 with 5 days left in the auction!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Vintag...YAAOSwHVdcjkNk

Are there other cameras rebadged as Leicas that show this behaviour on the used market? I don't think those Leica/Panasonic digicams do.

Vanity is expensive :)

Michael Markey 03-26-2019 14:04

I joined this forum in `08 and threads like these have been a constant feature.
I wonder what purpose they serve .
It`s rather like groundhog day reading some of the replies regardless of which model camera is being discussed.

Archlich 03-26-2019 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfrey (Post 2877579)
Ah, another delightful thread full of rangefinder camera enthusiasts enjoying*and lauding the only camera manufacturer still producing rangefinder cameras, both digital AND film..

What a load of bollocks this is.

G

No one's arguing here that Leica isn't making fantastic products on their own.

This thread is about used, 1990's Minolta cheapo point & shoot cameras with a Leica logo stuck on fetching prices several times higher than the vanilla ones, in the year of 2019. It's more of a trend than what Leica is doing now.

Please do not resort to personal attack if there's no denial in that...fact.

Michael Markey 03-26-2019 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archlich (Post 2877587)
Leica's unique products are good.

They don't make the rebadged ones, which is this thread is about. How does pointing that out making one a bollock?

A person can`t be a bollock just things and situations :)

Huss 03-26-2019 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfrey (Post 2877579)
Ah, another delightful thread full of rangefinder camera enthusiasts enjoying*and lauding the only camera manufacturer still producing rangefinder cameras, both digital AND film..

What a load of bollocks this is.

G

Why you upset? No puppies were kicked in the making of this thread.

You could explain why my Leica AF-C1 is now worth 20 times the identical Minolta.

My explanation is that it is 20 times rarer. And I'm not kidding about that.

Archlich 03-26-2019 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huss (Post 2877591)
Why you upset? No puppies were kicked in the making of this thread.

You could explain why my Leica AF-C1 is now worth 20 times the identical Minolta.

My explanation is that it is 20 times rarer. And I'm not kidding about that.

We all know the Leica brand has value. Big value, which has been extensively exploited, like all premium brands. In which there is nothing to be ashamed of.

What is interesting here is people would automatically assume that by acknowledging the prestige of the Leica brand, you're attacking it.

Weird!

css9450 03-26-2019 14:25

I interpreted most of the posts as just light-hearted fun. Nothing to get upset about.

Godfrey 03-26-2019 14:25

The answer to your question is: Because people are willing to pay that much for these cameras.

It's certainly not Leica's fault nor does Leica have any influence on what people are willing to pay a lot of money for. And, by the way, Leica gains no benefit from used camera sales at all. So why try to grind Leica's badge into the mud about it?

Just call such sales the result of foolish people paying more than things are worth. Who freekin' cares anyway? It's their money, they get to do with it as they please. If that means heaping it in a barbecue and igniting it to watch the pretty colors being outgassed from the Treasury department's fancy inks, so be it.

I see this kind of crap thread started here every month, at least. I cannot imagine what benefit it has for RFF or for the people who participate in it. It's all negative crap.

G

Archlich 03-26-2019 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Markey (Post 2877589)
A person can`t be a bollock just things and situations :)

My bad but I've got my share of it :)

Ko.Fe. 03-26-2019 15:01

I have no idea how Leica does it, but even rebranding works for Leica.
OP doesn't deny it.
Now the only thing he needs to accept and let it go is the fact what many people are willing to pay more even if it is not Leica made, but rebranded product.
Leica does it so good. Packaging, broken English manuals. It is so charming.
Or look at thier digital P&S. Old sensors, absolutely nothing special in rendering, including T, X and CL.
But cameras are so cute.

nickthetasmaniac 03-26-2019 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfrey (Post 2877596)
It's all negative crap.

G

If you read through the thread there's really only one person being negative.

For the rest, just curiousity that the name is worth so much, when everything but the name is identical. No one is saying Leica sucks, no one is dragging their name through the mud.

Huss 03-26-2019 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. (Post 2877605)
I have no idea how Leica does it, but even rebranding works for Leica.
OP doesn't deny it.
Now the only thing he needs to accept and let it go is the fact what many people are willing to pay more even if it is not Leica made, but rebranded product.
Leica does it so good. Packaging, broken English manuals. It is so charming.
Or look at thier digital P&S. Old sensors, absolutely nothing special in rendering, including T, X and CL.
But cameras are so cute.

Indeed it's a strange thing the way we are so affected.

Take any of the Hasseblad Xpan series cameras. They are 100% Fujis where the absolutely only difference is the name Hasselblad. I had both the Hasselblad and Fuji version at the same time. The Xpan sold for $1000 more than my TX-1, same condition!
But I get it, there is just something to seeing the name there. And I was thankful that the buyer saw it too!
I've kept my TX-2..

Huss 03-26-2019 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfrey (Post 2877596)
The answer to your question is: Because people are willing to pay that much for these cameras.

It's certainly not Leica's fault nor does Leica have any influence on what people are willing to pay a lot of money for. And, by the way, Leica gains no benefit from used camera sales at all. So why try to grind Leica's badge into the mud about it?

Just call such sales the result of foolish people paying more than things are worth. Who freekin' cares anyway? It's their money, they get to do with it as they please. If that means heaping it in a barbecue and igniting it to watch the pretty colors being outgassed from the Treasury department's fancy inks, so be it.

I see this kind of crap thread started here every month, at least. I cannot imagine what benefit it has for RFF or for the people who participate in it. It's all negative crap.

G

Take a breath. Relax. Ohmmmmm.

Emile de Leon 03-26-2019 20:15

Quote:

I cannot imagine what benefit it has for RFF or for the people who participate in it.
It's called...fun...!
Just us wankers...pontificating...

B-9 03-26-2019 20:20

ohhhhhhmmmmmmm resistance is futile!

zuiko85 03-26-2019 21:44

Leica is in the enviable position of being able to price their goods high enough to actually make a profit.
At least making enough money that they can indulge in still making a couple of M film cameras, one even meterless, a real purist camera. None of the other major players would have the extra profit to do that.
Ask a few other camera companies how well they are doing. Often bringing out new models every 9 months and having to dump the last model for less than their cost. It's a brutal business world out there. I doubt Olympus has made a nickel on their camera division in the last few quarters. Not sure how Canon or Nikon or Fuji are faring.

nickthetasmaniac 03-26-2019 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by zuiko85 (Post 2877679)
At least making enough money that they can indulge in still making a couple of M film cameras, one even meterless, a real purist camera. None of the other major players would have the extra profit to do that.

I wonder if the M-A is an indulgance, or a key part of their brand marketing? They might not be making any direct profit from it (I have no idea), but I suspect is represents an important part of maintaining the Leica mythology.

Michael Markey 03-27-2019 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfrey (Post 2877596)
I see this kind of crap thread started here every month, at least. I cannot imagine what benefit it has for RFF or for the people who participate in it. It's all negative crap.

G

I agree …. no benefit what ever and it`s been done to death.
Whatever happened to posting shots.

CMur12 03-27-2019 00:44

Could it be that the typical buyer of such used cameras isn't aware that certain Leica models are rebadged from other brands?


- Murray

nickthetasmaniac 03-27-2019 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Markey (Post 2877697)
Whatever happened to posting shots.

They're same place they've always been... https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...php?forumid=62

Michael Markey 03-27-2019 01:48

Yep . I know Nick . :)
It`s just that sometimes I get tired of the " is Leica worth it , can`t cameras be simpler , film /digital threads ".
Its a photography forum , photographers are supposed to have a little imagination when instead it`s like bloody groundhog day around here sometimes. :)

zuiko85 03-27-2019 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Markey (Post 2877703)
Yep . I know Mick . :)
It`s just that sometimes I get tired of the " is Leica worth it , can`t cameras be simpler , film /digital threads ".
Its a photography forum , photographers are supposed to have a little imagination when instead it`s like bloody groundhog day around here sometimes. :)

For what it's worth we were having the same silly arguments back in the days before the internet.
I was selling cameras at Altman's in Chicago back in the early 70's and this "discussion" came periodically among the sales staff. I was there when Leica brought out the M5, you should have heard the noise! You would have thought it was the end of world for the Leica purest camp. At the time I was with the 'Leica is overpriced jewelry' camp, being young and stupid. Having aged (grumpy old man stage of life) I'm more in agreement with Godfrey's 'Who the hell cares' attitude. Like he said, it's their money, they can spend it however they like.

nzeeman 03-27-2019 06:55

new people come and want ti discuss some things that we maybe already discussed... nothing wrong with it... and its always interesting to talk about power of brand. especially nowadays when its so easy to compare components used and to see that all brands share so much interior and still make different price... same as with iphone-selling inferior device for much more money...

Contarama 03-27-2019 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMur12 (Post 2877700)
Could it be that the typical buyer of such used cameras isn't aware that certain Leica models are rebadged from other brands?


- Murray

That's me!! I knew about the clear but not the others

Huss 03-27-2019 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Markey (Post 2877697)
Whatever happened to posting shots.

they are posted all the time in other threads...

Apparently the market has been watching this thread because now the cheapest working Leica AF-C1 is $333 with others in the $500 range!

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...af-c1&_sacat=0

The identical Minolta is in the $10-$20 range

Steve Bellayr 03-27-2019 08:00

Leica tends to have better quality control and longer warranties. If purchasing a new item that may be an important consideration. On used item, especially one of lower level, it is especially important as you loose the warranty. Recently, correct me if I am wrong, but I have seen a sharp increase in price of M6s, especially those in very excellent condition.

Huss 03-27-2019 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Bellayr (Post 2877756)
Leica tends to have better quality control and longer warranties. If purchasing a new item that may be an important consideration. On used item, especially one of lower level, it is especially important as you loose the warranty. Recently, correct me if I am wrong, but I have seen a sharp increase in price of M6s, especially those in very excellent condition.

Yep, the M6 and M7 now have had a sharp increase in price. (So has the Zeiss Ikon ZM). But this thread is about re-badged cameras, not 'real' Leicas.


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