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-   -   Sad new Certo 6...advice wanted. (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147337)

Monochrom 02-13-2015 11:41

Sad new Certo 6...advice wanted.
 
2 Attachment(s)
Hi Folks, today i received a certo six.

It was stated as mint and claīd by an expert in the subject.
Rangefinder speeds etc done.

But i found many things that disappointed me.

1-Viewfinder hazy, dust inside
2-RF vertical missalignment
3-Advance lever stiff like hell
4-focusing system also stiff, the mirro base plate with dust and dry grease.

5-But the worse thing was a stain inside the rear optical element.

What disappoints me the most is not the price which was high, but all these flaws are there right under my nose i could "appreciate" them immediatelly in a simple check.

Should i go for partial refund or just send it back?

Itīs a fine machine the certo six, iīm sad about this. I had high feelings about it.

:(

Solinar 02-13-2015 16:20

Mint and CLAīd it is not. Send it back for a full refund - even if the seller was unknowingly fraudulent.

GaryLH 02-13-2015 16:22

Send it back..

Gary

Pioneer 02-13-2015 17:00

Send it back. It does not match the description in any way. Not to put to fine a point on it, keeping it rewards the seller. At the very least they need to be more attentive to what they are selling.

Brian Legge 02-13-2015 17:04

Get it from Poland by any chance? That reminds me of ads I've seen from those parts. Perhaps it's just one or two dealers out that way but they have a large number of ebay listings.

Monochrom 02-14-2015 07:52

Hi!

Thanks for your advise.

This is a reputed seller and has a site about this camera, so to me he was the man to buy a certo6...iīm amazed on how he handles these issues and how untidy and incomplete his CLA work is!

He says he doesnīt remmeber the spot on the lens....i wonder if he remmebers having the RF fixed, pehaps he never did it.

I have no confidence in him.

You are right i must return this camera right away!

Thanks!

PD: the RF contrast is not good enough, focusing on the eyes of a person resulted too long for real shooting.

Pherdinand 02-14-2015 08:40

I assume you will still be out of 2x shippin costs...

I hate when this happens:/
and it often happens.

B-9 02-14-2015 09:56

Yeeks, sorry to hear.

Im glad i didnt opt to buy from this seller also... as im pretty sure who your talking about.

Hope it gets settled, please do let us know how you make out.

Monochrom 02-14-2015 10:18

Hi, for sure i have to pay 2x shiping cost...also i paid for taxes...but i guess i have to forget about it.

Perhaps too much flattery made his ego go over the top.

Thanks for your support.

Solinar 02-14-2015 11:04

To make the buyer pay for shipping both ways on defective merchandise is a sad way to do business.

I could go on - but I'm sure this deal will hurt J.K. in the long run.

Highway 61 02-14-2015 11:17

This is not the first time I hear such things re. folders which were sold by the same seller (if the seller is the one I am thinking of, but there are clues enough).

Robert Lai 02-14-2015 12:14

I once bought a "CLA'd" Zeiss Super Ikonta C from certo 6.
It was rough handling, and worst of all, the shutter button wouldn't fire the shutter! When I mentioned it to him, he sent it back with a piece of metal brazed on in ugly fashion. He said that the original rod which transmits the button push to the shutter release rod was "too short".

It never was a very good picture taker, and I eventually sold it at a loss, disclosing all its faults.

I have never bought anything from certo 6 again.

ray*j*gun 02-14-2015 13:49

I was reading another thread last week or so re JK and I resisted chiming in but I do believe that it is part of the benefit of this forum to provide warnings based on our experience when warranted. My experience with this vendor is miserable and I am just thankful that I didn't get burned to badly by him and his ham-fisted workmanship. Most of us do not have the kind of resources that can absorb too many hits from people like JK.

Monochrom 02-14-2015 19:50

Iīm sad to see you had also bad experiences, lost money and time.

I agree of this forum as a place to provide warnings and as you i canīt absorb these kind of loses.

tunalegs 02-14-2015 21:24

The "stain" looks like a drop of oil on the glass. I've gotten the same thing before after cleaning and relubing a Ricohflex. It won't really do any harm to the photos, but it shows less than professional attention to detail.

If you bought it on ebay I would go ahead and initiate a return, or leave appropriate feedback in the hope that the seller will react and rectify the situation.

Sarcophilus Harrisii 02-14-2015 21:36

How was it purchased? eBay & Paypal both have well defined terms under their buyer protection policies. The buyer usually has to pay return shipping (there are times I have issues with this) but original shipping is usually refundable. If the seller's care factor is not there perhaps you should consider starting a case.
Cheers
Brett

Monochrom 02-15-2015 05:15

No, the stain is not oil, itīs a dent in the glass. Iīve already checked it.

I will return the camera. Iīve never liked leaving negative feedback...but sometimes it may be necessary, hope itīs not one of such times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tunalegs (Post 2449736)
The "stain" looks like a drop of oil on the glass. I've gotten the same thing before after cleaning and relubing a Ricohflex. It won't really do any harm to the photos, but it shows less than professional attention to detail.

If you bought it on ebay I would go ahead and initiate a return, or leave appropriate feedback in the hope that the seller will react and rectify the situation.


graywolf 02-15-2015 08:47

Ask! If they give you a full refund, including shipping both ways give them a positive with a comment that it was not as described but seller gave you a full refund.

If you do not get a 100% refund, give them a negative.

If it is who I think it is, he is dead! His wife is running the business now. I do not think, even when he was alive, he did the work himself, he had several people who worked on cameras for him, some were better than others. Most of this was reported here a few years back.

Oh yah, I do not think the wife is interested in cameras, just money.

BTW, hinting about who the seller is, is not a good service to them, nor to the folks here on the forum.

skibeerr 02-15-2015 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by graywolf (Post 2449969)
If it is who I think it is, he is dead! His wife is running the business now.

BTW, hinting about who the seller is, is not a good service to them, nor to the folks here on the forum.

If he is dead there is no mention of it on his site.

http://www.certo6.com

Solinar 02-15-2015 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by skibeerr (Post 2450060)
If he is dead there is no mention of it on his site.

http://www.certo6.com

Interesting. His eBay ads still seem to be written in first person as well.

tunalegs 02-15-2015 12:43

I don't think his site has been updated in a few years?

Monochrom 02-15-2015 17:41

WOW!!! He speaks in first person and always sign with his name...:eek:


Quote:

Originally Posted by graywolf (Post 2449969)
...

If it is who I think it is, he is dead! His wife is running the business now. I do not think, even when he was alive, he did the work himself, he had several people who worked on cameras for him, some were better than others. Most of this was reported here a few years back.

Oh yah, I do not think the wife is interested in cameras, just money.

BTW, hinting about who the seller is, is not a good service to them, nor to the folks here on the forum.


Brian Legge 02-15-2015 18:41

Any chance people are confusing Jurgen Kuschnik (a well reputed German repairman) and Jurgen Kreckel (ie Certo6)? Kuschnik passed away in 2013.

Pablito 02-15-2015 19:13

I was going to buy a camera from him but the e-mail exchanges and answers to my questions were not satisfactory. He was snide and snotty so I dropped it - thankfully!

sevo 02-15-2015 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Legge (Post 2450196)
Any chance people are confusing Jurgen Kuschnik (a well reputed German repairman) and Jurgen Kreckel (ie Certo6)? Kuschnik passed away in 2013.

That might be. The former was the medium format SLR expert here in town, main expertise in modern pro use Rollei and Mamiya SLRs with the odd Fuji or Hasselblad thrown in. He did not really touch vintage collectibles except the Rolleiflex TLRs. Very nice guy, and sadly missed.

The self-proclaimed Certo 6 expert Jurgen Kreckel seems to be alive and kicking - and would be hard to imitate. I doubt that superficially patching up cheap folders to advertise them with very flowery prose throws off enough profit to enable a potential heir to hire both a highly professional ghostwriter and a inept car mechanic to continue his somewhat peculiar combination of skills...

wallace 02-15-2015 23:15

Juergen Kreckel aka Certo6 is a retired gun smith.
Maybe he is using his old tools for the cameras....

pseudobreccia 02-16-2015 18:27

I purchased a Zeiss Ikon Ercona I from Certo6. It came to me in immaculate condition. Instead of whining about the seller...perhaps you should contact him about a return instead of airing your dirty laundry in this group.

fad gadget 02-16-2015 19:03

I've had the same experience as Steve.
Bought close to a dozen folders from Certo6 over the years, never a problem.

If there's a problem with the return shipping costs, just open a return though eBay and all the fees are covered.

Hope it gets resolved to your satisfaction.

BobBill 02-18-2015 12:44

I have been working with Jurgen Kreckel (Certo6) for sometime and just sent a splendid Certo6 to have the rangefinder mirror silvered. He and I correspond enough that I know he is still up and at 'em above the ground.

Now, if Jurgen sold you a blemished camera I really would be surprised and am thinking he will reimburse you including shipping. Jurgen knows his stuff, so I am wondering...

If things go really bad...you call eBay trouble line, and wait, it takes a while. Explain your problem and, if you are correct, the firm will make it right or Jurgen will am sure.

I bought a very nice cla'd Zeiss machine from him and sent him a pristine Bessa II and cannot say enough about his work and service and that is why I sent this near pristine Certo6 to Jurgen in Saylorville, PA just yesterday...

My email notices to thread responses are spotty...? But would like to know what happens, INTMT...if not too much trouble.

Pace!

BobBill 02-18-2015 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by pseudobreccia (Post 2450627)
I purchased a Zeiss Ikon Ercona I from Certo6. It came to me in immaculate condition. Instead of whining about the seller...perhaps you should contact him about a return instead of airing your dirty laundry in this group.

Add me: +1.

Monochrom 02-18-2015 12:59

Epilogue?
 
During this time iīve been talking to the seller.

I expressed my concerns and after a while he came to an answer.

useful answer it was...enough funds to perform the necessary fixes.

And the best of all a new rear element to replace the flawed one.

A set of instructions to perform the arangements to the camera were also given.

Now the rear lens is travelling and i hope it will be here soon.

That should do for now.

Letīs see how this ends...iīll let you know the final real ending of this ebay episode.

jwanerman 02-24-2015 12:40

Certo 6
 
I have made three purchases from Jurgen Krekel in the past few years, and have always had a satisfactory experience. A Zeiss 532/16 that I had purchased from him had focus problems, so I returned it and he corrected the problem in a punctual manner. No problems ever from this vendor.

oftheherd 02-26-2015 08:35

From all I recall of the different posts I have seen here on RFF, when Certo6 is good, he is very good. When he is bad, he is very bad.

I don't know if he is really that bad, or if some buyers end up with buyer's remorse. If the latter that is sad as I would not now be willing to buy from him. If the former, one has to wonder what causes him to be so inconsistent.

Monochrom 03-05-2015 06:46

Nver ending story...:(
 
Hi guys!

This never ends...the seller sent me a rear optical element to change but it never arrived...the tracking id shows "doesnīt exist"

I made tests and the lens backfocuses like hell itīs so much that i didnīt even bother to measure this "new" flaw.

So i sent the camera back to him, losing on taxes, shipping and lots of time.

I guess he will refund me as soon he receives the camera back!

i need that money i canīt afford losing it :(

Ezzie 03-05-2015 08:38

Hope it all comes to a positive conclusion.

I've only ever bought the one camera from him, and it was in very good condition. I used it a lot in very cold weather, as it was the only leaf shuttered camera I could rely on when the thermometer read -15C. Would indicate it had been given a CLA in recent history. Communication was not bad either.

If I was to buy another folder I would give him the nod, not least because CLA'd folders do not grow on trees. The options are thinning out.

Anders O 03-20-2015 06:28

I had two folders claīd by Certo six and I am very pleased with the result.

Monochrom 03-20-2015 07:05

The conclusion....:(
 
Hi fellas.

I think itīs the end of it.

Weeks lost, money lost and by far the worst experience on ebay (not ebayīs fault)

Sent back the camera and the seller just played dumb, usps stated clearly successful delivery but the seller wouldnīt recognise it.
I had to talk directly to an ebay employee and only after that i received some refund...the seller kept to him almost 25% of the cost i canīt understand how is that.

I wonder why people act this way, itīs easier to be straight. But i guess if he makes this on regular basis he must get a full pocket after a while.

So let be it...now i purchased a yashica mat and i intend to have a great time with it!!!!

Thanks for your advices and experiences shared in this post!

Bye :)

B-9 03-20-2015 07:15

Unfortunate ending to this horror story,

I feel very lucky, my super baldax came back ready to rock.

J.K even made the effort to have my camera out in time for a shoot (7days total including shipping)

Price for CLA and Shutter swap, was about what Yye charges for a Barnack CLA.

So far so good, but Im fully willing to accept that my experience may have just be rare luck.

Solinar 03-20-2015 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monochrom (Post 2466155)

I wonder why people act this way, itīs easier to be straight.

Bye :)

It's a lot saner to be straight and not have all the messy karma in your wake.

Personally, as a seller, if I send out a defective item that is not as described in the ad - I refund both the cost of the camera and the shipping. Then move on.

Best Regards,

pseudobreccia 03-20-2015 16:54

How exactly does glass become "dented"?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Monochrom (Post 2449876)
No, the stain is not oil, itīs a dent in the glass. Iīve already checked it.

I will return the camera. Iīve never liked leaving negative feedback...but sometimes it may be necessary, hope itīs not one of such times.



Perhaps you should deal directly with the seller instead of complaining here? I bought two cameras from this seller and both were received as advertised. Just curious...how does glass get a dent in it?


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