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SLRs - the unRF For those of you who must talk about SLRs, if only to confirm they are not RF.

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Old 07-12-2019   #121
J enea
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every camera has is usage and value to someone. its what it is. I like that I picked up a like new N80 for the cost of 2 disposable cameras. Whats not to like. for me they serve a few purposes....


1) to give to friends that are used to digital cameras. The N80, N75 F100 and the like can be pretty much used by digital shooters with little confusion. Its a good tool to convert them to the "dark side" (as they see film shooters).


2) as a point and shoot. you can give the camera to someone who has no clue how to work a camera and even with a roll of slide film, on P mode they can get great results with little fuss on the users part. Valuable to keep the girlfriend happy.


3) you can use most of the modern lenses on these bodies. D and G lenses, which makes using digital and film cameras pretty convenient.



yeh they have some downsides to some users. I much prefer manual focus lenses, like the AI and AI-s lenses. years ago these high quality lenses where dirt cheap as digital people all wanted auto focus do every length zoom lenses. so the cheaper more modern film cameras cant meter with MF lenses. so that limits their usage for me. 95% of the time the FE-2, FM3a or the F3 comes out. I do use the N80 when I have the itch to go real wide. I use it with my 14-24 zoom. it does look a little confusing, the tiny body with the huge lens.



I agree with what was mentioned in a post above. the body is really a light box. I have no chance of telling, if I didn't know, whether a shot was taken on my F5 or my n80 or my original 60's F.



the more modern cameras, in my mind, where really designed to be modular point ans shoots. allowing lenses changes put still used in point and shoot style. its crazy to see that some of the contax point and shoots are going for $1500 plus in price. guess when the rich and shameless use something, it really does become cool to copy them. Give me a contax g1 over a a T2 or T3 and save $1000 for film. or give me an N80 and a 50mm 1.8d over a miju any time. I have both and while they serve their purposes....... anyway


enough of my yapping
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Old 07-12-2019   #122
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give me an N80 and a 50mm 1.8d over a miju any time.
Exactly! Or one of those Yashica T's, or one of any of the other overpriced point-n-shooters.
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Old 07-12-2019   #123
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Yeah so I crumbled when I found a like new one for $8. For $8 this camera is totally worth it.
Here with my Sigma Art 50 1.4:



Yeah you can't set ISO. And Exp comp is in .5 stops. But it cost 8 freakin dollars! A Fuji disposable camera costs $9!
Exactly!

Ready? I'll go one further. These cameras are 85% of an F6. Sorry. They are. Ready again? They have better ergos because they are lighter and smaller.

They are also newer than a lot of classic cameras? And if the electronics die you're out 10 bucks. One of these with a 50/1.8 will blow any point-n-shoot out of the water. They're just as light and only slightly larger.

Rockwell pert much nailed it:

The N75 is Nikon's newest mostly-plastic 35mm SLR. The lens mount is metal. If you can get over the plastic, and especially if you love light weight, it is among the best 35mm cameras ever made. It's a plastic F5 or F6. The N75 has a metal lens mount. No one knows about the N75 because it came out just as digital had replaced film for most people. That's too bad, because the N75 has every trick Nikon has ever learned to put in cameras, at a very low price.

In terms of "getting over plastic". Plastiphobia is a mental illness. Really. It is. Do you want a metal keyboard? How 'bout a metal laptop? Plastic has proven to be durable and light. It doesn't corrode. It's also less expensive. I have owned cameras for with plastic bodies for decades. Do I want plastic gears on it? No. Body -- yeah sure.
https://kenrockwell.com/nikon/n75.htm
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Old 07-12-2019   #124
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How 'bout a metal laptop?
Yes please
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Old 07-12-2019   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Hey I caved!

I have a bad memory, or I would have remembered you are the owner of an F6, which seemed odd to me after your rant about cheap late model SLR's and P&S's.


All these cameras that I experimented with had two things in common. It's the lens that makes the camera. And ergonomics are paramount to a good user experience. After that, it comes down to how the darn thing operates. If it's not intuitive to use, then I tend to put it aside.


My one N75 had a film transport issue after half the roll, so it just went into the Nikon collection. I prefer the N80 anyway since it has a battery grip installed with extra controls for portrait orientation.


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Old 07-12-2019   #126
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I have a bad memory, or I would have remembered you are the owner of an F6, which seemed odd to me after your rant about cheap late model SLR's and P&S's.


All these cameras that I experimented with had two things in common. It's the lens that makes the camera. And ergonomics are paramount to a good user experience. After that, it comes down to how the darn thing operates. If it's not intuitive to use, then I tend to put it aside.


My one N75 had a film transport issue after half the roll, so it just went into the Nikon collection. I prefer the N80 anyway since it has a battery grip installed with extra controls for portrait orientation.


PF
I rant unecessarily about so many things it's hard to keep track. But I don't think I've ranted about cheap P&S cameras as I love them. Pretty sure at the beginning of this thread I bagged on cheap late model AF SLRs, but I think it was to say they are so cheap because they have zero charm and thus low demand = cheap prices.
I do have an F6, but not sure how that comes to play. Fer sure 99% of the time the pics I take with that (using the same lens) are indistinguishable to those from my $8 (which is why I bought it!) N75.

The great thing about cheap plastic late model AF film SLRs is that they allow a novice to take nice pics w/o intimidating them. Just put it on P (or one of those symbols), point and shoot, letting it do the focus and exposure. The advantage over a P&S is the user feels that they have more control due to the SLR viewing. And frankly they are quicker to operate/focus/shoot.
So they can be seen as a great learning tool to dip the toe into the film waters. Especially because even tho the kamera may be doing 'everything', the user still sees interesting stuff like shutter and aperture info in the VF. And may later decide that they would like to know what that means and how it effects their results.
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Old 07-12-2019   #127
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
The great thing about cheap plastic late model AF film SLRs is that they allow a novice to take nice pics w/o intimidating them. Just put it on P (or one of those symbols), point and shoot, letting it do the focus and exposure.
While I doubt it's your intended meaning, why is "P" mode unique to "cheap late model AF film SLRs"? They have the same modes as modern cameras including digital -- P,M,A,S.

They are "cheap" because they were mass produced in a (modern) factory on an (modern) assembly line in Asia. The economic model centering around volume and lower margins with messaging and price-point centered around moving product. They are not hand assembled by skilled technicians on a bench in Europe with an economic model centering around scarcity and high margins with messaging centering around prestige and cost justiication. They are "Seiko" vs. "Breguet:. Ain't nothin' wrong with a Seiko. Both tell the same time. I'm on team Seiko.

Again. $8. $10. Mine was $10 (ten) dollars shipped. It takes most Nikkor lenses including G lenses. It has modern electronics and is much newer than "the classics". Something craps out? Buy three. Keep two in the closet, or one in the car. Whatever.

I reiterate.

Undervalued

Get'em before the Lomographers and perhaps collectors catch on. (We were always ahead of that curve anyhows... No?)

"...it is among the best 35mm cameras ever made. It's a plastic F5 or F6 [...]the N75 has every trick Nikon has ever learned to put in cameras, at a very low price."

https://kenrockwell.com/nikon/n75.htm
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Old 07-13-2019   #128
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"...it is among the best 35mm cameras ever made. It's a plastic F5 or F6 [...]the N75 has every trick Nikon has ever learned to put in cameras, at a very low price."

https://kenrockwell.com/nikon/n75.htm
I'm really not sure repeating KR quotes is going to win people over on this one...
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Old 07-13-2019   #129
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Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac View Post
I'm really not sure repeating KR quotes is going to win people over on this one...
Not trying to "win anybody over". Just a supporting quote from a respected albeit controversial photography blogger who has a lot of experience and who has used a lot of cameras. You know, a back-up quote from an expert like in high school term papers to drivre home a point.

People hate KR and DxO Mark. They're my two favorite online resources for gear information and opinion.
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Old 07-13-2019   #130
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What do people reckon is the best bang for the buck Nikon kit lens for these ?
28-200 G ?
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Old 07-13-2019   #131
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Just as a word of warning to people considering the Nikon F5x/6x/7x cameras - there appears to be a problem with autofocus on some of them, which my F65 has developed.

On half press the meter will turn on but the camera won't autofocus. Jabbing at the shutter button will eventually kick the motor into action, and the camera will be good for 5-6 shots before it again becomes reticent to focus. Wasted a fair few shots on a roll trying to kick the af into action. Same problem with fresh batteries and af-d and af-s lenses.

I can send mine back for a refund, but it's a shame as I quite like it - mine is also the seemingly rarer black version rather than the more common champagne colour also
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Old 07-13-2019   #132
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Just as a word of warning to people considering the Nikon F5x/6x/7x cameras - there appears to be a problem with autofocus on some of them, which my F65 has developed.

On half press the meter will turn on but the camera won't autofocus. Jabbing at the shutter button will eventually kick the motor into action, and the camera will be good for 5-6 shots before it again becomes reticent to focus. Wasted a fair few shots on a roll trying to kick the af into action. Same problem with fresh batteries and af-d and af-s lenses.

I can send mine back for a refund, but it's a shame as I quite like it - mine is also the seemingly rarer black version rather than the more common champagne colour also
Just send it back and get another. I just sent back a Minolta Freedom Tele cuz the af was sporadic. Really nice sample too.
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Old 07-13-2019   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
I rant unecessarily about so many things it's hard to keep track. But I don't think I've ranted about cheap P&S cameras as I love them. Pretty sure at the beginning of this thread I bagged on cheap late model AF SLRs, but I think it was to say they are so cheap because they have zero charm and thus low demand = cheap prices.
I do have an F6, but not sure how that comes to play. Fer sure 99% of the time the pics I take with that (using the same lens) are indistinguishable to those from my $8 (which is why I bought it!) N75.

The great thing about cheap plastic late model AF film SLRs is that they allow a novice to take nice pics w/o intimidating them. Just put it on P (or one of those symbols), point and shoot, letting it do the focus and exposure. The advantage over a P&S is the user feels that they have more control due to the SLR viewing. And frankly they are quicker to operate/focus/shoot.
So they can be seen as a great learning tool to dip the toe into the film waters. Especially because even tho the kamera may be doing 'everything', the user still sees interesting stuff like shutter and aperture info in the VF. And may later decide that they would like to know what that means and how it effects their results.

Hard for me to keep up with you too.


Some day I'll have to get my P&S collection inventoried, and see if there is anything you'd like. Gratis, that is.


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Old 07-13-2019   #134
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I had one of the old 28 200 G ED lenses Ste S, and it was a really good lens.

The non AI H 50 2.0 lenses are even better
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Old 07-14-2019   #135
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Just send it back and get another. I just sent back a Minolta Freedom Tele cuz the af was sporadic. Really nice sample too.
The F65 will be back in the post tomorrow... in the meantime couldn't spot any black F65 or F75 around, so ended up buying an F80 for not much more than the F65

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I had one of the old 28 200 G ED lenses Ste S, and it was a really good lens.

The non AI H 50 2.0 lenses are even better
Cheers, think I'll be picking up the 28-200.
I already have a 50 1.8 af-d and the ais, another 50 is last on my list at the moment
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Old 07-15-2019   #136
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With film point-n-shooters (many of them) asking silly prices and which are quite old and more or less disposable consumer items. And with the ever-aging base 60's and 70's era rangefinders reaching the very tail end of their lives (nothing lasts forever)...

Are film SLRs from the 2000's the new "find" in film photography? To wit -- just picked up a Nikon N75 for $9.00 (on Amazon, yet). Just the body. In a box (we shall see what we shall see when it arrives...)

Plastic, granted. But the camera has a slew of modern features and, well, while it ain't new, it also ain't as old as a Yashica GSN or some such. It autofocuses, has autofocus points, PSAM etc... Production run from 2003-2006 so while "old" it ain't "that" old (for a film camera body...)

Got it because I have a slew of Nikon lenses and film in the fridge. It costes lest than a roll of film and processing. So what the heck? The batteries costes almost as much as the camera.

Are these 2000's plastic fantastic mid-level SLRs the new film bargains? On Amazon, sellers are asking $25-30 for film tested ones with replaced seals. Plus Amazon return policy (which is why I took my chances and went cheap...)
A working Nikon N75 is an awesome camera, especially pared with a plastic fantastic zoom like the 28-80 AF-D. Very lightweight, consummate metering and fun to use. As long as you don't mind not having full manual control. I picked one up also for not much more than what you paid last year and the seller threw in a perfectly working N65 as well...There are so many great cameras out there, each with their own angle...
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Old 07-15-2019   #137
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Some of the early AF stuff sucks when you need it to AF, but a N8008/N90 is a GREAT alternative to a FM2/FE2 if you can deal with the weight and size.

I will not pay $500 for a point and shoot - my Rebel T2 and 40 STM works as a P&S for me, and is about the same size as those Canon QL17 and equivalent things (fixed lens RFs never did anything for me)

Reliability is also manufacturer dependent. I trust older electronic nikons to be okay for a while. Never ran into a bad one. Ran into a bunch of bad Contax cameras
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Old 07-15-2019   #138
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What do people reckon is the best bang for the buck Nikon kit lens for these ?
28-200 G ?
I use the 28-80g. Super light weight, small, fantastic image quality. Cheap.
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Old 07-15-2019   #139
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A working Nikon N75 is an awesome camera, especially pared with a plastic fantastic zoom like the 28-80 AF-D.
I have the matching plastic G version -- not bad for a kit. But I have a load of other lenses too. That zoom makes a nice very light and versatile kit. Oh -- that lens cost $30. Lots raves about it because KR gave it a glowing review. Prices spiked, then returned to normal. I think it's a good/solid lens.
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Old 07-15-2019   #140
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This was made with a Nikon N80 and the 28-80G kit lens. I have it framed.

Salida Church Bell by Carlos Yashinon, on Flickr
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Old 07-15-2019   #141
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This was made with a Nikon N80 and the 28-80G kit lens. I have it framed.
Salida Church Bell by Carlos Yashinon, on Flickr
Very nice Carlos. I'm looking forward to getting my first roll back from using this lens.
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Old 07-16-2019   #142
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Thanks Huss. Here is one more made with the same setup.

Street Musician by Carlos Yashinon, on Flickr
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Old 07-16-2019   #143
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I just bought a N75 literally new in the box for $30. I used to have the N65, and welcome back the small, light form factor. My N75 has a 28mm f/2.8 AF-D mounted and is loaded with Fuji 200. Just need to go for a walk!
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Old 07-16-2019   #144
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Thanks Huss. Here is one more made with the same setup.

Street Musician by Carlos Yashinon, on Flickr
Love that pic!
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Less disposable choice?
Old 07-16-2019   #145
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Less disposable choice?

I know it is said that better is the enemy of good, but for around $100 you can now find a Nikon F100 body...

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Old 07-16-2019   #146
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I know it is said that better is the enemy of good, but for around $100 you can now find a Nikon F100 body...

Chris
All those F100s floating out there with broken film doors suggest it is quite disposable. Itís why I unloaded mine while it was still working. $8 for a perfect N75 sounds like a much better deal to me! And the pictures look the same.
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Old 07-16-2019   #147
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Use them up!
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Old 07-16-2019   #148
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Agree with the comments on the F100 being disposable.

A big reason I chose to go Canon when doing a 1 yr challenge. The EOS 1 is sooooo robust compared... although through look and feel you might not get that impression.

Truth is.. I would love a F100 being a Nikon guy at heart. I just do not want the trouble.

The F5 is worth its weight.


I would hope my old EOS 1 becomes something of value even if that value is purely aesthetic. It is a tool and a great one. Cheap as well w/501.8 mki around 100usd. I paid extra to find the right lens hood. I literally need for nothing else in a camera. Point Click Shot.

YEET!
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Old 07-16-2019   #149
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I know it is said that better is the enemy of good, but for around $100 you can now find a Nikon F100 body...

Chris
At the least in the UK that's not accurate. Here you're looking at closer to £200 ($250) than $100.
An F80 is <£50 and F65/F75 <£30.

I got my F80 in the post yesterday and it's a really nice camera. It's not quite as small and light as the F65 was though.... so I'm still on the lookout for a black F65 or F75
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Old 07-17-2019   #150
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I skimmed the thread, so I don't know if anybody has pitched these two cents in: In the 1960s, and 1970s, SLRs were not sold or marketed as family snapshot cameras. That's what Instamatics were for, of if you had the money and were inclined, a nice fixed lens rangefinder.



In the 1980's, that changed, and the result is SLRs of lesser quality - because they knew most buyers were going to pull them out for birthdays, and the occasional vacation. These cameras were not intended to be used hard, they were made for casual use. The internals got more complicated, and more flimsy. If you ever compare a 1980's Canon to a 1960's Pentax or Exakta, (on the inside) you'll see what I mean. I'm not saying the fit and finish are worse, or that they take worse photos - just that the mechanisms weren't built for lots of use, and weren't built with servicing or repair in mind.



Does this matter if you found a "minty" one still in its box and you only shoot a handful of rolls of film a year? No. Is it your main camera, and you want to still be using it in ten years? Well, then possibly it's an issue to consider.
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Old 07-17-2019   #151
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I skimmed the thread, so I don't know if anybody has pitched these two cents in: In the 1960s, and 1970s, SLRs were not sold or marketed as family snapshot cameras. That's what Instamatics were for, of if you had the money and were inclined, a nice fixed lens rangefinder.



In the 1980's, that changed, and the result is SLRs of lesser quality - because they knew most buyers were going to pull them out for birthdays, and the occasional vacation. These cameras were not intended to be used hard, they were made for casual use. The internals got more complicated, and more flimsy. If you ever compare a 1980's Canon to a 1960's Pentax or Exakta, (on the inside) you'll see what I mean. I'm not saying the fit and finish are worse, or that they take worse photos - just that the mechanisms weren't built for lots of use, and weren't built with servicing or repair in mind.



Does this matter if you found a "minty" one still in its box and you only shoot a handful of rolls of film a year? No. Is it your main camera, and you want to still be using it in ten years? Well, then possibly it's an issue to consider.
When you can buy these cameras now for less than the cost of one roll of film, no it does not matter.
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Old 07-17-2019   #152
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This was made with a ... 28-80G kit lens. I have it framed.
Ain't nothing wrong with that lens. Not a world beater but a good, versatile and (most of all) LIGHT kit lens. Dirt cheap. $30 used, I think I paid. 6 elements, 1 aspherical iirc. Nice little lens, but I wouldn't go so far as to frame it, personally. Would rather use it.
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Old 07-17-2019   #153
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Ain't nothing wrong with that lens. Not a world beater but a good, versatile and (most of all) LIGHT kit lens. Dirt cheap. $30 used, I think I paid. 6 elements, 1 aspherical iirc. Nice little lens, but I wouldn't go so far as to frame it, personally. Would rather use it.
He means he framed that photograph.
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Old 07-17-2019   #154
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I purchased 5 Nikon F2 cameras in last year, silver and black prisms, two AS meter heads, one DP2 head. They are all in very nice but not collector quality, therefore pro quality without paying a fortune. The can last the average amateur a lifetime.

Lenses are abundant. Any Nikon pre AI, converted Ai, Ai, Ais will working they are cheap.

New cameras are plastic.
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Old 07-17-2019   #155
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I purchased 5 Nikon F2 cameras in last year, silver and black prisms, two AS meter heads, one DP2 head. They are all in very nice but not collector quality, therefore pro quality without paying a fortune. The can last the average amateur a lifetime.

Lenses are abundant. Any Nikon pre AI, converted Ai, Ai, Ais will working they are cheap.

New cameras are plastic.
Not sure what point you're trying to make here ? They're very different cameras. One is a former professional camera from the 70s, now collectors camera. The other is a consumer camera from the last days of film camera production that can be picked up for next to nothing.

F2 doesn't have matrix metering, auto exposure, ttl flash, pop up flash, auto focus, built in motor drive and shutter speeds higher than 1/1000.
F2 also costs 10x the price of a F65/F75, and is much heavier.
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Old 07-17-2019   #156
Austintatious
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Ain't nothing wrong with that lens. Not a world beater but a good, versatile and (most of all) LIGHT kit lens. Dirt cheap. $30 used, I think I paid. 6 elements, 1 aspherical iirc. Nice little lens, but I wouldn't go so far as to frame it, personally. Would rather use it.
And it makes a lovely chapeau !
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Old 07-17-2019   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald M View Post
I purchased 5 Nikon F2 cameras in last year, silver and black prisms, two AS meter heads, one DP2 head. They are all in very nice but not collector quality, therefore pro quality without paying a fortune. The can last the average amateur a lifetime.

Lenses are abundant. Any Nikon pre AI, converted Ai, Ai, Ais will working they are cheap.

New cameras are plastic.
My F2 kameras are very nice but none of them work w my Sigma 35 and 50mm Art lenses.
My $8 N75 does. The Art lenses are far sharper and have nicer bokeh than any of my AI/AIS/non AI lenses. Which means my $8 plastic kamera takes better pics than my F2. Or F. Or Fm2n. Or F3P. Or Nikkormat FT2.
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Old 07-17-2019   #158
tunalegs
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
When you can buy these cameras now for less than the cost of one roll of film, no it does not matter.

When you can buy a much better camera now for the cost of two rolls of film, there's not much price advantage.
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Old 07-17-2019   #159
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Originally Posted by tunalegs View Post
When you can buy a much better camera now for the cost of two rolls of film, there's not much price advantage.
What can u buy much better for $16?
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Old 07-17-2019   #160
David Hughes
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
What can u buy much better for $16?

Exactly, and they don't have to be Nikons. I've had Minolta, Olympus and Pentax SLR's for a pound or two. There's also a lot of unappreciated lenses out there.


Going for the "pro" cameras is a little like overkill for most photographers who are (or should be) happy with 5 x 7Ĺ prints from a usable camera.


Regards, David
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