Which new FF body for M lenses?
Old 10-01-2018   #1
vytasn
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Which new FF body for M lenses?

Which of the new full frame offerings does everyone think will work best with M mount lenses? I am interested because I have a modest collection of Leica, Canon, Voigtlander and Soviet era rangefinder lenses that I like to use with film cameras, but I have had only so-so luck with my Sony A7ii. As has been documented many times, the thick Sony sensor glass cover seems to be the main culprit in the less than stellar performance of rangefinder glass, especially of wide angle lenses. I would like exclude Leica bodies for the simple reason that they are outside my price range. While not all the specs are out, does anyone want to speculate on which of the new Nikon, Canon, Panasonic, or Sigma bodies will be best with M lenses?
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Old 10-01-2018   #2
nightfly
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I know you said new but used M9 or M240 not terribly far off what what some of these new bodies will cost you. New Canon is $3k. Sony's are about 2K and Nikon around the same. Has Panasonic announced pricing? I would think the lower end is 2K and the upper end is 3K.

A7 with the Kolari modification?

Not an adapted lens person but I'd think those are two good options.

If you really want new, you'd probably be best to let the adapters come to market and see what sort of quirks pop up.
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Old 10-04-2018   #3
vytasn
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Digilloyd has just commented that the Panasonic SR1 will be a M10 killer because of its potential for handling m lenses.

https://diglloyd.com
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Old 10-04-2018   #4
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Sony, Nikon; and Canon have no interest in optimizing anything for M-mount lenses, there's no profit in that for them, so I wouldn't count on them at all. Panasonic of the non-Leica manufacturers is the only that might include M-mount sensor optimizations ... but I somehow doubt that Leica's lens profiles for R and M lenses will be available on the Panasonic bodies even if the L mount is fully interchangeable with Leica SL and T/TL lenses.

Sigma is said to be developing a compact body specifically for M lenses. If that comes to pass, it might be a good way to go. But it means waiting to see exactly what they produce, and isn't a sure thing.

I'm not sad to say it: what I did in this exact situation was save up my money and buy Leica bodies. An M digital body works brilliantly with Leica M and R lenses old and new, as do the SL, T/TL, and CL bodies. If you value your lens collection and want to get the most out of them, it's the only way to go IMO.

G
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Old 10-04-2018   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
Sony, Nikon; and Canon have no interest in optimizing anything for M-mount lenses, there's no profit in that for them, so I wouldn't count on them at all.
...
G
+ 10

Use a M body with M/LTM lenses. I think alternative options are too fiddly to be satisfactory.
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Old 10-04-2018   #6
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The biggest problems with using M lenses on M digitals are (a) exorbitant price and (b) woeful after-sale support. Won't ever buy another digital Leica.

Jury is still out on the new offerings, if it were me, I'd wait to see results with these.
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Old 10-04-2018   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
The biggest problems with using M lenses on M digitals are (a) exorbitant price and (b) woeful after-sale support. Won't ever buy another digital Leica.
...
Sorry to hear you've had some problems.

Price ... irrelevant. Yes, Leica stuff costs money. If I were worried about that, I wouldn't buy Leica lenses, never mind bodies, in the first place. I've owned Leica gear since 1969 and it's always been expensive. Such is life.

Repair and service, my experience ... never mind the film Leicas. I've had seven digital Leicas since 2005. Only two have needed any service at all: my X2 had a problem with the four way controller about a year in, Leica fixed it free of charge in three weeks turnaround time; my M9 had the sensor corrosion problem three years after I bought it, Leica evaluated it and offered the M-P trade-in and upgrade which I took - turnaround four weeks. Other brands I've owned I've had similar experience with on repairs required and service experience.

So I'll stick with Leica.

G
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Old 10-04-2018   #8
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Price: always relevant, of course. We're talking bodies, not lenses, are we not? Besides, Leica RF lenses have been around for decades, many people aren't buying the high priced modern glass. The higher the price, the greater the depreciation. The poor service record of Leica digital bodies (well documented here and elsewhere) contributes greatly to this.
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Old 10-04-2018   #9
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Used Leica body is same as any of these new and will probably result in better photos if you can live without all the extras.

I have a used M9 and have had sensor problems twice, which was annoying, but fixed for free both times. If I bought it for 7 grand, I'd be pissed. But paying half that used several years ago, I can live with.

Still a joy to use.
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Old 10-04-2018   #10
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Right there with you. I'd love to use my excellent M and LTM glass reliably with some kind of digital camera. I'd really love to have an M10, but my budget is laughing at me for even thinking about it. I have been using a first generation Sony A7 for a few years now, and with 50mm and longer M lenses it works fine. The 90mm Elmarit-M practically lives on this camera, and the handling and the image results are very nice. But I haven't been as impressed with the results from shorter/wider focal length lenses. The Kolari conversion is worth looking into to improve performance; but buying a newer Sony body and paying for the mod gets well into used Leica M digital body territory (which is the calculus I am wrestling with right now). The recent announcements from Panasonic and Sigma have me very interested, too - but I'm not banking on what may or may not appear down the road.

Unless one can afford or at least justify the expense of Leica digital bodies, Leica M/LTM glass still works best on film - for now. I'm hoping this will change, but we shall have to wait and see. I'm saving my pennies. Whether they go into native glass for a mirrorless camera system, a digital Leica body I might be able to afford, or some yet-to-be-released camera that might work better with Leica glass remains to be seen.
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Old 10-04-2018   #11
Darthfeeble
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While not full frame, I've had good luck with the Fuji cameras that I have. I don't like either of the focusing aids however. Split screen doesn't do it for me at all, the peaking is better but takes a while to master.
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Old 10-04-2018   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
I'm not sad to say it: what I did in this exact situation was save up my money and buy Leica bodies. An M digital body works brilliantly with Leica M and R lenses old and new, as do the SL, T/TL, and CL bodies. If you value your lens collection and want to get the most out of them, it's the only way to go IMO.

G
That`s probably the best advice .
I`m certainly interested in the CL but at the moment I use my Leica and Canon glass on an A7S and A7R2 .
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Old 10-04-2018   #13
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I'd wait to see how the new Panasonic handles Leica glass, seeing that they are a partner.
Otherwise a used M240 which can be had for under $3K and works perfectly with Leica glass (!)

I don't like using cropped sensors with Leica glass as you lose their native focal length. They all in essence become longer lenses, either by 1.5 to 2X the focal length (Leica CL to micro 4/3. I think Fuji is somewhere in between)
This means my widest lens - an 18mm Super Elmar, is a 27mm lens on the CL.
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Old 10-04-2018   #14
splitimageview
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To the OP, which lenses do you have?
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Old 10-04-2018   #15
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I bought an Xpro2 as my m-mount digital largely because I don’t shoot as much digital as I do film. I was reasonably sure I would hate it and sell it due to the crop factor. I actually fell in life with the jpg output and use it along with my m6 as my daily carry.
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Old 10-04-2018   #16
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Honestly, I see no reason to use M lenses on digital bodies with native AF lenses.
If you have film M and want M lens on digital, get digital M.
Yes, I had my M-E for few months in service. But same was for film M. Just avoid of doing it at the same time .
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Old 10-04-2018   #17
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Just to add to the "get a used M240" pile. It will be the same or less money (sell your Sony) and it won't be half measures.
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Old 10-04-2018   #18
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Saving for SD Quattro for L mount. Hope Sigma keep the price around same level than current models. Sigmas usual handicaps like slow focusing would not bother with M lens. + I read their focus peaking is pretty good on current models (maybe someone can confirm/deny that here?). It still would not be low light camera, but that’s expected
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Old 10-06-2018   #19
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The M 10. It was designed for Leica M lenses.
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Old 10-06-2018   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vytasn View Post
I would like exclude Leica bodies for the simple reason that they are outside my price range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by airfrogusmc View Post
The M 10. It was designed for Leica M lenses.
M bodies are the obvious choice, but the OP does not want to pay the big bux that an M10 requires.
That is why lots of peeps have recommended a used M (M240). Works perfectly with M glass (like the M10) but same money as a new Japanese high end digi cam. And the vast majority of digi Ms on the used market are low mileage as they tend not to be used by spray and pray shooters.

One thing I agree with with KoFe is using native AF lenses on AF cameras. When I picked up a used Oly m43 I bought a bunch of adapters, but after the initial novelty wore off, realized that the native lenses just work so much better and are much easier to use. Same thing w my Nikon DSLR, while I have mf lenses, the af ones just work so well with it that I use them almost all the time.
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Old 10-07-2018   #21
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The price of new mirrorless cameras is very high!
Pointless to place a Leica lens where there are program fit, it's fiddly and a mess hearking, back to the 1st "T" mounts. sigh.
The small difference in price with a real Leica, really not worth the other way.
I use Leitz and or Leica lenses only on my "M's".
I've used friends Digital "M's" and only really like color of M8!
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Old 10-08-2018   #22
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Sometimes you end up spending a lot more when buying all the stuff or settling and winding up with say a Leica M 10 in the end anyway. I know if I had all the money I spent by settling I could have bought what I thought was so expensive several times over.
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