40mm for Leica m9 - Leica/Minolta or CV?
Old 08-15-2019   #1
nightfly
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40mm for Leica m9 - Leica/Minolta or CV?

Which lens would pair better with an M9 a Leica or Minolta 40mm Summicron or a Cosina Nokton Classic 40mm/1.4? They are going for around the same price give or take $100. Not really concerned about the extra speed as I doubt I'll shoot it much at less than f2 anyway. Mostly want it as a small street/travel lens.

More concerned with rendition, color etc.

The CV is decades newer but I've seen mixed reviews. I do like the scalloped focusing tab better than the one on the Summicron, which I once owned but foolishly sold but obviously not a deal breaker.
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Old 08-15-2019   #2
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I had the CV 40 1.4 at the same time as the Cron 40. Kept the cron sold the CV. Images just look ‘better’ to my eye from the Cron.
I also have the new CV 40 1.2 and just love it. Bigger though...
Speed does matter to me which is why I bought the 1.2 as I am a film shooter. Can’t just bump my ISO up willy-nilly!
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Old 08-15-2019   #3
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I also had the CV 40/1.4 and the Minolta 40/2, and kept the Minolta. Love the small size, ergonomics, smooth bokeh, etc.
If speed doesn't matter, there's also the Rollei 40/2.8 Sonnar, which is another wonderful lens....
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Old 08-15-2019   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kermaier View Post
I also had the CV 40/1.4 and the Minolta 40/2, and kept the Minolta. Love the small size, ergonomics, smooth bokeh, etc.
If speed doesn't matter, there's also the Rollei 40/2.8 Sonnar, which is another wonderful lens....
I happen to also have the Rollei 40 2.8 but much prefer the
Cron so I’ve been trying to sell the Rollei for a while now! I’m convinced the Rolllei is made by Cosina because the construction is near to identical to my CV 50 2.5
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Old 08-15-2019   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
I happen to also have the Rollei 40 2.8 but much prefer the
Cron so I’ve been trying to sell the Rollei for a while now! I’m convinced the Rolllei is made by Cosina because the construction is near to identical to my CV 50 2.5
Yes, my understanding is that the glass is from Rollei Germany, and the mount is from CV Japan.

Edit: By the way, both the Rollei 40/2.8 and the CV 50/2.5 physically look almost identical to the vintage Summaron 35/2.8 and Summicron 35/2 v1.
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Old 08-15-2019   #6
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Sounds like I want the Cron.

Thanks.
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Old 08-15-2019   #7
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The 40 M-Rokkor uses standard filters in 40.5mm, the Summicron uses a series 5.5, if that matters...
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Old 08-15-2019   #8
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If you want small size, light weight, and a vintage look
get the original CL's 40 summicron, or its Rokkor brother

if you want the best performing modern image lens get the faster Voigtlander 40/1.2
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Old 08-15-2019   #9
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Filter size doesn't matter, I never use them.

Vintage look is fine, the 1.2 is unneccessary for my needs and bigger than I'd like.

The crown goes to the Leica or the Rokkor, whichever I find cheaper in decent condition.
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Old 08-15-2019   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
The 40 M-Rokkor uses standard filters in 40.5mm, the Summicron uses a series 5.5, if that matters...
I use a thread adapter to use 40.5mm
What is more important is to know there are several versions of the Cron 40. The one I have has the aperture ring flush with the top of the lens so if u attach anything to the filter thread and snug it down it can bind w the aperture ring.
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Old 08-15-2019   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kermaier View Post
Yes, my understanding is that the glass is from Rollei Germany, and the mount is from CV Japan.

Edit: By the way, both the Rollei 40/2.8 and the CV 50/2.5 physically look almost identical to the vintage Summaron 35/2.8 and Summicron 35/2 v1.
The Rollei RF 35 camera that the 40 2.8 was packaged with was just a rebadged Cosina Bessa R2 so I doubt if there is anything German in the lens either. Final assembly (whatever the last piece was that had to be attached) was in Germany which qualified it for the esteemed ‘Made in Germany’ label.
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Old 08-15-2019   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
The Rollei RF 35 camera that the 40 2.8 was packaged with was just a rebadged Cosina Bessa R2 so I doubt if there is anything German in the lens either. Final assembly (whatever the last piece was that had to be attached) was in Germany which qualified it for the esteemed ‘Made in Germany’ label.
if i recall correctly, Rollei advertised it as German glass identical to the Rollei 35 40/2.8 lens

while the lens barrel looks like it was made by Cosina
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Old 08-15-2019   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CameraQuest View Post
if i recall correctly, Rollei advertised it as German glass identical to the Rollei 35 40/2.8 lens

while the lens barrel looks like it was made by Cosina
Identical in lens groups/design/coatings? Because it is much bigger than the lens in the Rollei 35 compact kamera.
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Old 08-15-2019   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
I use a thread adapter to use 40.5mm
What is more important is to know there are several versions of the Cron 40. The one I have has the aperture ring flush with the top of the lens so if u attach anything to the filter thread and snug it down it can bind w the aperture ring.
I'm only aware of one production version, made from 1973-77, #11542
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Old 08-15-2019   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
I'm only aware of one production version, made from 1973-77, #11542

At the 40 second mark you can see how the edge of the aperture ring is the bit that sticks out the most.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhOy3KtYdrc

This is like mine, and this binds if I use a regular aftermarket lens hood or filter.

On the contrary, this version of the Summicron's aperture ring is slightly under the filter thread area, so no binding:

https://www.sharegrid.com/newyork/l/...lens?type=rent
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Old 08-15-2019   #16
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I settled for my converted Minilux lens. It's a little cracker!
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Old 08-15-2019   #17
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I had 40 CLE latest version.
At f2 bokeh was buzzing.
With 40 1.4 you'll get even more of it. To me it is not good.

Even if 40 is real match for crappy M9 35 frames, I still prefer 35 lens on my M-E. Despite of odd rendering at 1.4 I'm finding 40, 35 of it to be much more practical on M9 sensor.
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Old 08-15-2019   #18
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FWIW, if you have a choice, my personal impression is that the CL version of te M-Rokkor is somewhat more solidly built than the later CLE version.
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Old 08-15-2019   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veggies View Post
I settled for my converted Minilux lens. It's a little cracker!
Is it rf coupled?
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Old 08-15-2019   #20
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I like the Cle‘s Rokkor - it takes 40.5 mm filters and the rf coupling is „normal“ - not cl specific.
The IQ is IMO outstanding and it is so small...
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Old 08-16-2019   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
I had 40 CLE latest version.
At f2 bokeh was buzzing.
With 40 1.4 you'll get even more of it. To me it is not good.

Same!
I owned a M-Rokkor 40 for my Minolta CLE (plus some digital use) and exchanged it by the Nokon 40 1.4.
The M-Rokkor was to "soft" for my taste.
The Nokton 40mm is very sharp (starting at f1.7 or f2) with a good contrast.
At f2 it's definitely better than the others at the same aperture.
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Old 08-16-2019   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
I had 40 CLE latest version.
At f2 bokeh was buzzing.
With 40 1.4 you'll get even more of it. To me it is not good.

Even if 40 is real match for crappy M9 35 frames, I still prefer 35 lens on my M-E. Despite of odd rendering at 1.4 I'm finding 40, 35 of it to be much more practical on M9 sensor.
I wouldn't bother with 40mm for the M9 if the object is to match the framelines. The 40mm Rokkor or CV 40/1.4 actually cover slightly less (at a distance of 10 feet or so) than the finder shows. It's not the same as with the same lenses on my M6/M7/MP, where the opposite is true.
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Old 08-16-2019   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kermaier View Post
FWIW, if you have a choice, my personal impression is that the CL version of te M-Rokkor is somewhat more solidly built than the later CLE version.
I have changed entire focus part on latest CLE version.
To the new one. It is all metal, three helicoids part.
Optical block is also metal.

No idea from where this CL vs CLE mythology comes from.
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Old 08-16-2019   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
I wouldn't bother with 40mm for the M9 if the object is to match the framelines. The 40mm Rokkor or CV 40/1.4 actually cover slightly less (at a distance of 10 feet or so) than the finder shows. It's not the same as with the same lenses on my M6/M7/MP, where the opposite is true.
On M9 with 35 mm frames, 40 lens is more accurate for framing on all distances. Close and far.
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Old 08-16-2019   #25
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Originally Posted by santino View Post
I like the Cle‘s Rokkor - it takes 40.5 mm filters and the rf coupling is „normal“ - not cl specific.
The IQ is IMO outstanding and it is so small...
I have never had an rf coupling/focus issue w my Summicron 40 on any of my M bodies. Well apart from my MDA.
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Old 08-16-2019   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
I have changed entire focus part on latest CLE version.
To the new one. It is all metal, three helicoids part.
Optical block is also metal.

No idea from where this CL vs CLE mythology comes from.
It’s not “mythology” — I’ve handled both, and the first version of the M-Rokkor felt heavier and had smoother mechanical movements.
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Old 08-16-2019   #27
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There is a very good comparison of the Summicron-C vs Nokton here:
http://gear.vogelius.se/-editorials/40-vs-40/index.html
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Old 08-16-2019   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kermaier View Post
FWIW, if you have a choice, my personal impression is that the CL version of te M-Rokkor is somewhat more solidly built than the later CLE version.

Newer M-Rokkors are purported to have a different (better for color?) lens coating. These are supposedly the ones with the serial number on the barrel, not the front.
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Old 08-16-2019   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
I have never had an rf coupling/focus issue w my Summicron 40 on any of my M bodies. Well apart from my MDA.

I know, I had the C-Elmar and no problems at all but Leica claimed an incompatibility between M and CL M lenses - maybe pure marketing.
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Old 08-18-2019   #30
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If I remember correctly the Minolta 40mm was made by Minolta and the Leica version was made in Germany. Again, IIRF, there was an article about them being made by a sub-contractor in Germany but I lost the article, otherwise I'd show it or quote from it.


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Old 08-18-2019   #31
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I never quite get why the Leica and Minolta 40mm lenses are so revered with the Voigtlander a mere footnote.
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Old 08-18-2019   #32
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I would try to get a contax g 2.0 45mm wich Leica m adapted.
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Old 08-18-2019   #33
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The Planar is probably the best of the bunch but rare in m mount and 45mm...
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Old 08-18-2019   #34
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Quote:
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I would try to get a contax g 2.0 45mm wich Leica m adapted.
I have one of those (original unconverted) and it's a great lens. But according to its specs, the 45mm focal length is nominal, and it's actually 47mm. I guess that would put it out of the 40mm class!

I also have the 40mm Rokkor, and that's a fine lens too. And also the 1.4/40mm Nokton SC in the second production run. Both of these are used primarily on Minolta CLE bodies. Here are my comments on the Nokton...

"While this lens is just fine on film cameras, uncoded it's unacceptable on the digital Leica M typ240, smearing corner resolution and with strong corner illumination fall-off and cyan color-shift... the wider the aperture the stronger it gets and the closer it moves toward center. The "plane" of focus at wider apertures is decidedly bowl-shaped, concave. The 40 Rokkor is far superior!"

Also, the Nokton has a slightly smaller/narrower field of view than the Rokkor so the focal length must be slightly longer.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #35
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get a 40mm Summicron C.

IMO the same goodness as a 35mm Summicron of that era; put into a 40mm for a bargain price. Even though prices have gone up a little bit in the past few years i still firmly believe it's the most 'bang for the buck' Leica lens money can buy. Love mine and it's my 'go to' lens for every occasion.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #36
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get a 40mm Summicron C.

IMO the same goodness as a 35mm Summicron of that era; put into a 40mm for a bargain price. Even though prices have gone up a little bit in the past few years i still firmly believe it's the most 'bang for the buck' Leica lens money can buy. Love mine and it's my 'go to' lens for every occasion.
Absolutely! A '70s era Summicron for $4-500? A no-brainer.
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