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Old 07-27-2019   #81
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I've not really been interested in any more 35mm lenses for my kit, until seeing this.
Thank you, Kevin, for sharing this with us!
If the price ends up close to what was mentioned earlier in this thread, I am definitely wanting one. Don't really have a preference about finish--the raw brass looks pretty and will, I think, look better as the lens ages--but I do have a bit of a preference for an LTM version, thought either would suit me and my current kit.
Going to be saving up some $ and keeping an eye on this!
Rob
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Old 07-27-2019   #82
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Originally Posted by rbiemer View Post
I've not really been interested in any more 35mm lenses for my kit, until seeing this.
Thank you, Kevin, for sharing this with us!
If the price ends up close to what was mentioned earlier in this thread, I am definitely wanting one. Don't really have a preference about finish--the raw brass looks pretty and will, I think, look better as the lens ages--but I do have a bit of a preference for an LTM version, thought either would suit me and my current kit.
Going to be saving up some $ and keeping an eye on this!
Rob
Hi Rob, Thank you for your comment here. Regarding the price, he told me it would be slightly higher than $500. I assume the final price would be still very affordable. I will update this information when he makes the final decision on pricing.

Seems like many people here are interest in the LTM version. Me too. But currently he only has the M-mount prototype. Don't know how he will make the LTM version. We will see.
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Old 07-27-2019   #83
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I will favor an ltm Version as I have a summicron in M.
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Old 07-27-2019   #84
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Originally Posted by KEVIN-XU 愛 forever View Post
Hi Rob, Thank you for your comment here. Regarding the price, he told me it would be slightly higher than $500. I assume the final price would be still very affordable. I will update this information when he makes the final decision on pricing.

Seems like many people here are interest in the LTM version. Me too. But currently he only has the M-mount prototype. Don't know how he will make the LTM version. We will see.
I'm still a very happy Bessa user and I find myself picking the R a bit more often than the R2a. That said, I basically leave the LTM to M adapter on the R2a and effectively turn it into an LTM mount camera.

If I have the choice of this lens in M mount OR LTM, I will opt for LTM. If, however the choice were to be M mount only, I could live with that.

All of which is hoping that this lens does make it to market,that the quality is as good as it appears to be, that I have enough ready $ to jump, and that it is not so limited that it sells out before I have the chance to buy one.

Keeping my fingers crossed!
Rob
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Old 07-27-2019   #85
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Same here Rob! Fingers crossed and pennies pinched.
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Old 07-27-2019   #86
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Hi Kevin ... not interested the lens so much but I can see why it is generating so much interest.

Maybe you can refresh my memory but I seem to recall that there was a thread some time ago where you were giving us some fascinating insights into all the various Chinese cameras that you knew about and had seen? I would love to think all that info is still here but I wouldn't have a clue what thread it was in or if was indeed you!

Cheers from down under!
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Old 07-27-2019   #87
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That prototype looks expertly machined and love the brass! Hope that's available. Used the 8-element for a trial long ago but the damned thing had permanent haze that killed any contrast wide open. Would definitely go for its twin at $500-700.

Question, though. I'm more of a lurker than a commenter only because most here are far better informed and experienced than me. Really learned a lot from you folks over the years. You guys were razzing someone earlier for being negative about this new development and I thought the same as 'Huss' and others did but when I went reading around on Leica Users Forum, I suddenly stumbled on the same posting and photos by Kevin. Makes me wonder if there's something to that earlier poster's suspicions.
Still like the lens and if I can grab one to complement my Leica 28 Summaron, 7A 50, and Voigtlander 75, me and my M6 will be very happy indeed.
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Old 07-27-2019   #88
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Originally Posted by f.hayek View Post
You guys were razzing someone earlier for being negative about this new development and I thought the same as 'Huss' and others did but when I went reading around on Leica Users Forum, I suddenly stumbled on the same posting and photos by Kevin. Makes me wonder if there's something to that earlier poster's suspicions.
I guess posting the same info on various forums in order to test the interest of the wide audience is a normal marketing thing. As to suspicions - there werenĺt many in that post, it was mostly negativity suggesting in will be bad product, no QC etc. OK, we can be reserved before we see, but it was more than that...
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Old 07-27-2019   #89
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I guess posting the same info on various forums in order to test the interest of the wide audience is a normal marketing thing. As to suspicions - there weren’t many in that post, it was mostly negativity suggesting in will be bad product, no QC etc. OK, we can be reserved before we see, but it was more than that...
Yeah, a bit presumptuous especially if he hadn't used 7A lenses before. My Nikkors made in China are indistinguishable in quality from my Japanese ones. The original 8 element is so out of reach for most of us, exciting to see an optically identical version with what looks to be improved, modern multi-coating. Just that when I eyed the same post over at Leica Forum, it got me wondering.
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Old 07-27-2019   #90
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The original 8 element is so out of reach for most of us, exciting to see what looks to be an improved version of the same, with modern coatings. Just that when I eyed the same post over at Leica Forum, it got me wondering.

I think that it is rather na´ve to expect the same rendering from this copied lens. The original lens is made from rather exotic kinds of glass that are unavailable today because the production is forbidden based on environmental legislation. That is the big problem and that is why the old lenses are so expensive. It is not simply a matter of coating.


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Old 07-27-2019   #91
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Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
I think that it is rather na´ve to expect the same rendering from this copied lens. The original lens is made from rather exotic kinds of glass that are unavailable today because the production is forbidden because of environmental legislation. That is the big problem and that is why the old lenses are so expensive. It is not simply a matter of coating.

Erik.
I heard of a similar issue with the SWC models where the old (chrome lens) models have such exotic glass that then was forbidden to be used in later SWC models.
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Old 07-27-2019   #92
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That prototype looks expertly machined and love the brass! Hope that's available. Used the 8-element for a trial long ago but the damned thing had permanent haze that killed any contrast wide open. Would definitely go for its twin at $500-700.

Question, though. I'm more of a lurker than a commenter only because most here are far better informed and experienced than me. Really learned a lot from you folks over the years. You guys were razzing someone earlier for being negative about this new development and I thought the same as 'Huss' and others did but when I went reading around on Leica Users Forum, I suddenly stumbled on the same posting and photos by Kevin. Makes me wonder if there's something to that earlier poster's suspicions.
Still like the lens and if I can grab one to complement my Leica 28 Summaron, 7A 50, and Voigtlander 75, me and my M6 will be very happy indeed.
Yea I copy and paste the post to the Lecia forum. Actually, it's the maker's idea. He wants me to reach to a wider variety to seek some more thoughts. But I think I will just mainly update the information here. I love the RFF community.
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Old 07-27-2019   #93
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Hi Kevin ... not interested the lens so much but I can see why it is generating so much interest.

Maybe you can refresh my memory but I seem to recall that there was a thread some time ago where you were giving us some fascinating insights into all the various Chinese cameras that you knew about and had seen? I would love to think all that info is still here but I wouldn't have a clue what thread it was in or if was indeed you!

Cheers from down under!
Hi Keith, sorry I am not the person you mentioned here. To be honest, I have never been a fan of Chinese cameras. I am a big fan of Japanese and Germany made cameras and lenses as you can see them in my collection on Flickr and Instagram. : ) But this time is something different. A Leica 8elemnts replica really interests me, and I want one so badly. That is the reason why I was trying to get in touch with the maker.
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Old 07-27-2019   #94
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Guys, here are some more prototype lens photos. Very interesting to see those details.


Leica Summicron 35mm f2 Eight Element Replica Prototype made in China by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

Leica Summicron 35mm f2 Eight Element Replica Prototype made in China by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

WechatIMG527 by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

WechatIMG529 by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr
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Old 07-27-2019   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
I think that it is rather na´ve to expect the same rendering from this copied lens. The original lens is made from rather exotic kinds of glass that are unavailable today because the production is forbidden based on environmental legislation. That is the big problem and that is why the old lenses are so expensive. It is not simply a matter of coating.


Erik.
The maker told me that he breakdown the original Sunmmicron 35/2 to analysis it's material and coating. Leaded glass or so-called flint glass (correct me if I am wrong) has been used in his replica. To make his lens perform as close as possible to the original one.
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Old 07-27-2019   #96
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Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
I think that it is rather na´ve to expect the same rendering from this copied lens. The original lens is made from rather exotic kinds of glass that are unavailable today because the production is forbidden based on environmental legislation. That is the big problem and that is why the old lenses are so expensive. It is not simply a matter of coating.


Erik.
That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. I guess better to wait and see.
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Old 07-27-2019   #97
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Cool! I want one. When can I get the lens?
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Old 07-27-2019   #98
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Cool! I want one. When can I get the lens?
As I mentioned previously, he said approximately in three months it will be available for the public. I really hope he could finally make it to mass production.
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Old 07-27-2019   #99
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Thank you Kevin.
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Old 07-27-2019   #100
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Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
I think that it is rather na´ve to expect the same rendering from this copied lens.
All you need to do is match the refractive index and colour transmission and the rendering will be the same. Glass to do it is available, particularly in China.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
The original lens is made from rather exotic kinds of glass that are unavailable today because the production is forbidden based on environmental legislation.
Manufacturing the right kinds of flint glass is not illegal in China.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
That is the big problem and that is why the old lenses are so expensive.
Old lenses are generally expensive due to rarity and high demand once they become ‘classic’.

The 8 element Summicron is a lovely lens and a modern reproduction would be great.

We often see threads here where members plead for someone to remanufacture Neopan 1600 or some other discontinued modern film. Making a copy of a modern film is incredibly complex, impossibly so. Building a reproduction lens isn’t exactly simple, but it is entirely achievable.

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Old 07-27-2019   #101
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Thank you Kevin.
You are welcome. : ) Please stay tuned. More test shots will come.
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Old 07-27-2019   #102
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I also feel that this could be a special lens.
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Old 07-27-2019   #103
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Manufacturing the right kinds of flint glass is not illegal in China.



Old lenses are generally expensive due to rarity and high demand once they become ‘classic’.

Yes, they are rare because the glass is unavailable. Particulary in Germany the environmental legislation is extremely strict. In the sixties Leitz produced its own glass, but those times are long gone. Some of their lenses contained six different kinds of glass with extremely high refractive indices. That is why the Noctilux f/1 is no longer produced. The Summilux 35mm steel rim is another example.

Maybe the production in China is less problematic, but usually other optical solutions are used, such as aspheric lenses. These produce a different type of image however.

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Old 07-28-2019   #104
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Same Settings - Original 8elements & Replica 8elements Comparison on Digital:


Comparison - Leica Summicron 8elments Replica by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

Comparison - Leica Summicron 8elements Original by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

Comparison - Leica Summicron 8elments Replica by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

Comparison - Leica Summicron 8elements Original by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

Comparison - Leica Summicron 8elments Replica by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

Comparison - Leica Summicron 8elements Original by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

Comparison - Leica Summicron 8elments Replica by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

Comparison - Leica Summicron 8elements Original by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

Comparison - Leica Summicron 8elments Replica by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

Comparison - Leica Summicron 8elements Original by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

Comparison - Leica Summicron 8elments Replica by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

Comparison - Leica Summicron 8elements Original by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

Please feel free to comment.

Kevin
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Old 07-28-2019   #105
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Horrible rings around oof highlights, only very slightly worse from the replica

I'm kidding, who cares. These all look lovely, and the difference in contrast from modern coatings is smaller than I thought.
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Old 07-28-2019   #106
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Horrible rings around oof highlights, only very slightly worse from the replica

I'm kidding, who cares. These all look lovely, and the difference in contrast from modern coatings is smaller than I thought.
Thanks for the comment. His goal is to make the replica as close as possible to the original one. He analyzed the coatings on each of the glass in Leica 8 elements and applied them on the replica. He said he could improve the performance but it's not his original intention. Anyway, that's what I have been told.
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Old 07-28-2019   #107
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So it is a true replica. Hopefully, in the near future we will see almost all cult lenses replicated by someone as dedicated as this gentleman,
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Old 07-28-2019   #108
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Incredible! I never thought that different lenses can be so close.

The original lens is a tiny little bit softer. Look at the dark parts of the teapot in the last picture.

Thank you Kevin for these pictures.

Erik.
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Old 07-28-2019   #109
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I have the same feelings here, Erik. It is a true replica and a success overall. There are hardly any differences at all. The OOF is nearly identical in all aspects.
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Old 07-28-2019   #110
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I was looking forward to these most recent comparisons and glad you posted them. I would like to also see the comparisons between the two lenses at longer distances and then finally comparisons between the two lenses at close and distance range both wide open and stopped down. Up to now, extremely impressed and hope it will also be released in chrome/silver.

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Old 07-28-2019   #111
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Seriously impressive!
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Old 07-28-2019   #112
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We still don't know how this lens performs on closed aperture and against of the Sun.
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Old 07-28-2019   #113
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This is an amazing development!!! My interest is fully piqued.
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Old 07-28-2019   #114
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That prototype looks expertly machined and love the brass! Hope that's available. Used the 8-element for a trial long ago but the damned thing had permanent haze that killed any contrast wide open. Would definitely go for its twin at $500-700.

Question, though. I'm more of a lurker than a commenter only because most here are far better informed and experienced than me. Really learned a lot from you folks over the years. You guys were razzing someone earlier for being negative about this new development and I thought the same as 'Huss' and others did but when I went reading around on Leica Users Forum, I suddenly stumbled on the same posting and photos by Kevin. Makes me wonder if there's something to that earlier poster's suspicions.
I also cross post on multiple forums that I frequent - rff, fredmiranda and photrio.
It gets more views from people who may not see it elsewhere, and thus (especially if I have a question) can get more useful responses.

However, I am not cross posting this reply..


Kevin, those results look very encouraging. And I really think a natural brass finish would be excellent because:
1. It looks great
b. It celebrates this lens as something unique standing out in the field full of black and silver lenses
iii. Not that it matters, but those out there claiming it's a knock off or counterfeit would have even less to grouch about because the original never looked like this.
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Old 07-28-2019   #115
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So it is a true replica. Hopefully, in the near future we will see almost all cult lenses replicated by someone as dedicated as this gentleman,
Don't forget that Leica is in the midst of doing the same. The 28 Summaron, to my surprise, was a great hit while the 90 Thambar not so much. And they have mentioned that they have others planned for re-release.
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Old 07-28-2019   #116
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The cost of such Leica lenses is not low. This makes alternatives look attractive.
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Old 07-28-2019   #117
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Don't forget that Leica is in the midst of doing the same. The 28 Summaron, to my surprise, was a great hit while the 90 Thambar not so much. And they have mentioned that they have others planned for re-release.
28 is much more common focal length. Plus small size. Plus, it has some usable image "quality".
Trabant has none of it. It is as "usable" as MS Optics 50 1.1.

And why do you think it is forgotten? It just irrelevant for many of us. New Leica lenses are priced for niche market, not for common photographers.
Yet, lenses like in this thread are for the most of us. Simply because of the price.
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Old 07-28-2019   #118
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Ok, sign me up! Put me on the list! WANT!
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Old 07-28-2019   #119
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever
所謂的攝影,就是人生。
 
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KEVIN-XU 愛 forever is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New Jersey, US
Age: 28
Posts: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
We still don't know how this lens performs on closed aperture and against of the Sun.
I already let him know your request. Hope we will see the test photos soon.
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When a man cannot choose he ceases to be a man...

所謂的攝影,就是人生。
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Old 07-28-2019   #120
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever
所謂的攝影,就是人生。
 
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KEVIN-XU 愛 forever is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New Jersey, US
Age: 28
Posts: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
Incredible! I never thought that different lenses can be so close.

The original lens is a tiny little bit softer. Look at the dark parts of the teapot in the last picture.

Thank you Kevin for these pictures.

Erik.
You are welcome, Erik.

The maker shared some thoughts regard the softness of the original lens performance. When they were setting up the comparison, they decided to use a Summicron 35/2 that is 100% in its original condition, which means never been opened before and in near new condition. But still, the original lens is almost 60 years old. Haze issue is regularly in the Leica old lens. And we now compare it with a brand new replica. And he said that the replica has slightly higher contrast.
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When a man cannot choose he ceases to be a man...

所謂的攝影,就是人生。
---荒木經惟



https://www.instagram.com/kevinxbegin/
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