Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Gearhead Delights > Repair / Camera Care

Repair / Camera Care This is a good place to discuss the care and repair of your photo gear. You can share Do-It-Yourself repair and maintenance, as well as your recommendations for pro repairs. This new forum was created 4/1/07. PLEASE title your thread wisely, so others searching for a certain make of camera or repair person can find your thread easily!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Re: W-Nikkor 3.5cm F1.8
Old 07-15-2017   #1
nomadia
Registered User
 
nomadia is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 114
Re: W-Nikkor 3.5cm F1.8

Hi all,

I got this lens recently and realized that the focus distance doesn't reach to 3 feet (see photo). Is this normal? I'm not getting any focusing problems on the roll that I ran through it. If defective, is this an easy fix or anyone can point me to a link that has similar problem to mine? Thanks.

  Reply With Quote

Old 07-15-2017   #2
Peter Jennings
Registered User
 
Peter Jennings's Avatar
 
Peter Jennings is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seoul
Posts: 322
It's not right. It should go just a hair past the 3 foot mark. Does the infinity marking line up properly? Does this also happen when not mounted on the body? Get back with answers to these questions and then maybe we can help with a diagnosis.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-15-2017   #3
nomadia
Registered User
 
nomadia is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Jennings View Post
It's not right. It should go just a hair past the 3 foot mark. Does the infinity marking line up properly? Does this also happen when not mounted on the body? Get back with answers to these questions and then maybe we can help with a diagnosis.


Hi Peter,

The infinity mark lines up and this doesnt happen when not mounted on the camera. I tried this also in another body and same thing happened, it doesnt reach the 3 ft mark.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-15-2017   #4
NIKON KIU
Did you say Nippon Kogaku
 
NIKON KIU's Avatar
 
NIKON KIU is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington DC suburbs
Age: 55
Posts: 1,937
So, it's fine when you do it without a body?
If that's the case, may be you are not installing it right?
Are you making sure both lens and camera are set at infinity when mounting?

Sometimes the lenses of this vintage gum-up after 50-60 years and they may not go all the way, this should not be any different when on or off the body. I had a 35mm that did this( bind when focusing) but after a few firm turns, it started working all the way.
If you lens turns all the way off the camera, then it sounds like you have a mounting problem.

I think CLA on a lens like this is about $100-$125

Kiu
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-15-2017   #5
nomadia
Registered User
 
nomadia is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by NIKON KIU View Post
So, it's fine when you do it without a body?
If that's the case, may be you are not installing it right?
Are you making sure both lens and camera are set at infinity when mounting?

Sometimes the lenses of this vintage gum-up after 50-60 years and they may not go all the way, this should not be any different when on or off the body. I had a 35mm that did this( bind when focusing) but after a few firm turns, it started working all the way.
If you lens turns all the way off the camera, then it sounds like you have a mounting problem.

I think CLA on a lens like this is about $100-$125

Kiu


Thanks Kiu. Yes, I mounted at infinity. This happens only when coupled with the camera.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-15-2017   #6
Peter Jennings
Registered User
 
Peter Jennings's Avatar
 
Peter Jennings is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seoul
Posts: 322
A well used lens like yours probably has been serviced in the past. My bet is that there was a mistake in the reassembly of the lens. As the helical of the camera extends when focussing at close distances, it could be contacting the inside of the lens mount. Look at the inside of the mount. Do you see any signs of rubbing or paint loss? Regardless, based on the issue you've described, I think the lens needs to be rebuilt.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-16-2017   #7
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,897
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadia View Post
The infinity mark lines up and this doesnt happen when not mounted on the camera.
My guess is that the spring loaded sleeve around the rear of the lens isn't seating properly in the focus helicoid on the camera. Check for burrs on the corners of that sleeve, particularly on the protrusion with 90 degree corners (not pictured below). Even a small amount will prevent the sleeve from seating properly.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg wnikkor.jpg (19.2 KB, 208 views)
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-16-2017   #8
nomadia
Registered User
 
nomadia is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 114
I checked and everything seems to be fine from my non-technical eye. What I noticed though when mounting the lens is it doesnt automatically turn at the first turning of focusing wheel (there's a bit of a lag before it snaps on to infinity). I'm guessing that's where the extra distance is lost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-16-2017   #9
richardHaw
junk scavenger
 
richardHaw's Avatar
 
richardHaw is offline
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 177
could it be that the focusing ring has gotten loose?
they are only held by 3 small set screws
your lens needs an overhaul
__________________
Take me down to the Parallax City
Where the viewfinder's tiny
And the framing is tricky
http://www.richardhaw.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-16-2017   #10
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,982
I would send the lens to a competent lens repair person.
__________________
- Raid

________________
Top 12 Images;

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg...n.php?cid=7007

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-16-2017   #11
nomadia
Registered User
 
nomadia is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 114
Thank you everyone. I might just as well do that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-16-2017   #12
richardHaw
junk scavenger
 
richardHaw's Avatar
 
richardHaw is offline
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 177
i am going to write a teardown one of these days for that lens on my blog
__________________
Take me down to the Parallax City
Where the viewfinder's tiny
And the framing is tricky
http://www.richardhaw.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-16-2017   #13
nomadia
Registered User
 
nomadia is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardHaw View Post
i am going to write a teardown one of these days for that lens on my blog


Awesome! Thanks in advance!
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-16-2017   #14
Highway 61
Revisited
 
Highway 61's Avatar
 
Highway 61 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadia View Post
What I noticed though when mounting the lens is it doesnt automatically turn at the first turning of focusing wheel (there's a bit of a lag before it snaps on to infinity). I'm guessing that's where the extra distance is lost.
Like Jon my thought is that the spring loaded sleeve around the rear group of the lens isn't getting seated properly in the focusing helicoid on the camera when you mount the lens with both the lens and the camera focusing helicoids set at infinity. Does the spring loaded sleeve respond snappy to your finger when you push it towards the front of the lens ? Does it show evidence of having got a bump at some point ? The sleeve must be perfectly round and it must not feel sticky around the lens rear group. Also, are the three sleeve tabs - which engage inside the three camera focusing helicoid sectors when you mount the lens - still in good shape with no metal missing ?

When you secure the lens on the camera the lens focusing ring and the camera focusing wheel must be sync'ed immediatly. I'd advise you to give the first amount of focusing motion with the lens focusing ring not the camera focusing wheel.
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 07-16-2017   #15
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post
Like Jon my thought is that the spring loaded sleeve around the rear group of the lens isn't getting seated properly in the focusing helicoid on the camera
Yep, thinking about it a bit more the problem has to be related to this sleeve, especially since the lens focuses through the full range when not mounted on a camera, and there's a moment of hesitation in the focus action when first mounting the lens on a camera.

The sleeve has to sit snugly in the focus helicoid as shown below. If the sleeve is slightly out of round, has any burring, or if the spring isn't strong enough, the sleeve won't seat properly, causing the problem the OP is experiencing.



One option is to remove the sleeve from the lens and fit it in the focus helicoid on its own to see if it fits in smoothy. If the sleeve is the problem (or the spring - I have two spares of those too), you can have one of these spares taken from two reissue W-Nikkor 35/1.8s that were converted to M-mount by Miyazaki-san.
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-16-2017   #16
richardHaw
junk scavenger
 
richardHaw's Avatar
 
richardHaw is offline
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 177
based on what i know about this lens it is not easy to dislodge the cam/sleeve or put it in the wrong configuration because of the rear elements assembly but it is also possible when the poor screw holding it is worn or damaged the spring underneath can be tricky to put back an if this was repaired before then the repairman might've put it back the wrong way.

can you please show us a picture of the rear end of the lens? another thing is the helicoid stop for that lens is delicate. it is just a small screw. i doubt that is the cause but that is also one thing that can happen.
__________________
Take me down to the Parallax City
Where the viewfinder's tiny
And the framing is tricky
http://www.richardhaw.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-16-2017   #17
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,897
The sleeve can be easily damaged by trying to mount the lens on the camera when either the lens or camera (or both) is not set to infinity. Will post a photo of the rear of the lens later!
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-17-2017   #18
nomadia
Registered User
 
nomadia is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 114
The sleeve doesn't seem to have any problem. No bumps, it snaps back when pushed to the front of the cell.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-17-2017   #19
nomadia
Registered User
 
nomadia is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 114
Is there a step by step lens disassembly/rebuild resource that I can refer to? Also, I sent my 5cm F1.4 for CLA to Youxin in the past. Will he be a good option for this type of repair?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-17-2017   #20
richardHaw
junk scavenger
 
richardHaw's Avatar
 
richardHaw is offline
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadia View Post
Is there a step by step lens disassembly/rebuild resource that I can refer to? Also, I sent my 5cm F1.4 for CLA to Youxin in the past. Will he be a good option for this type of repair?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
i am not sure. i have the notes here and I can write one for you around august if you can wait.

this lens requires some special tools like a pipe key if you want to overhaul it.
if all you want to do is overhaul the focusing unit, then all you need to do is unscrew the rear elements assembly off but be careful because the optics may fall to the floor
__________________
Take me down to the Parallax City
Where the viewfinder's tiny
And the framing is tricky
http://www.richardhaw.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-17-2017   #21
Fraser
Registered User
 
Fraser is offline
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,527
Does it line up perfectly at infinity?
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-17-2017   #22
enasniearth
Registered User
 
enasniearth is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 427
I notice jons lens has the screw holding the coupling ring at about the 7 meter mark on the distance scale
Yours seems to be close to infinity mark
I looked at mine it's like jons
When the infinity mark is set at reddish dot index , the screw holding the ring is close to 20 feet near 5.6 index on depth of field scale
Looks like your focus ring is off - not assembled correctly
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-17-2017   #23
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,897
Quote:
Originally Posted by enasniearth View Post
Looks like your focus ring is off - not assembled correctly
Al, I'd say he's got the lens set to near MFD instead of infinity. That would account for the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadia View Post
The sleeve doesn't seem to have any problem. No bumps, it snaps back when pushed to the front of the cell.
Judging by the angle of the part of the spring we can see in your photo, I'd say the spring isn't installed correctly in relation to the screw. It needs to be moved past the screw by one more rung. It a finicky process that requires three hands (seriously!) but doing so would give more tension on the spring action to hold the sleeve firmly against the mount, particularly when the lens is at or near MFD. When installed correctly, it should look almost parallel to the mount like the lenses below.

__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-17-2017   #24
richardHaw
junk scavenger
 
richardHaw's Avatar
 
richardHaw is offline
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 177
i just noticed that now that you mentioned it
that was definitely worked on by somebody else

to lift the spring, I use a clip soldering clips to be exact
__________________
Take me down to the Parallax City
Where the viewfinder's tiny
And the framing is tricky
http://www.richardhaw.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-17-2017   #25
nomadia
Registered User
 
nomadia is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 114
Good to know. Has anyone documented the needed disassembly? Thank you everyone, especially to Jon for zeroing in on the problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  Reply With Quote

Re: W-Nikkor 3.5cm F1.8
Old 07-17-2017   #26
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,897
Re: W-Nikkor 3.5cm F1.8

1. Remove rear optical group. Grab the rearmost metal part with your hand and twist it anti clockwise. It should screw right off.
2. Loosen and remove the flathead screw next to the spring. The sleeve and spring should come right off.
3. Put it all back together properly. With a bit of trial and error you should figure it out pretty quickly.
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-17-2017   #27
Peter Jennings
Registered User
 
Peter Jennings's Avatar
 
Peter Jennings is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seoul
Posts: 322
It may be easier to only remove the screw and adjust the spring without removing he rear element and coupling ring. At least, I would try that first.
  Reply With Quote

Re: W-Nikkor 3.5cm F1.8
Old 07-17-2017   #28
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,897
Re: W-Nikkor 3.5cm F1.8

That would be ideal. I was thinking it may help the OP understand the mechanism more clearly by partially disassembling it. Easy enough to do as removing the rear optical group is as simple as removing a filter.
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-17-2017   #29
Peter Jennings
Registered User
 
Peter Jennings's Avatar
 
Peter Jennings is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seoul
Posts: 322
Sure, Jon. I just thought that if the OP has some trepidation he could try something less invasive. When I first started tinkering with this stuff I'd take off a tiny part and freak out that I might be ruining it. Then I'd see that what I did had no negative effects and next time I'd go a little bit deeper. Pretty soon I was comfortable stripping down cameras and lenses into pieces.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-17-2017   #30
enasniearth
Registered User
 
enasniearth is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 427
Jon
Looking at your photos of your lenses the screw that holds the ring lines with the 7 meter (20 feet ) mark on the distance scale , these rotate together
Looking at the nomadias lens the retaining screw lines up with the infinity mark on his lens
Once again they rotate together / so the focus scale ring is not in the correct position .
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-17-2017   #31
enasniearth
Registered User
 
enasniearth is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadia View Post
The sleeve doesn't seem to have any problem. No bumps, it snaps back when pushed to the front of the cell.
I took some pictures of my 3.5cm f1.8 and a 2.8cm f3.5
no mater where the focusing is set , the screw location is at 20 feet on the distance scale (they rotate together)
on your lens it lines up closer to infinity . possible that the lens assembly is screwed in one thread off (there are 3 different position the 28 helicoid can be screwed on )and someone moved the distance scale to line up at infinity
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1065.jpg (21.1 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1066.jpg (20.0 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1067.jpg (21.9 KB, 15 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-17-2017   #32
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,897
Quote:
Originally Posted by enasniearth View Post
I notice jons lens has the screw holding the coupling ring at about the 7 meter mark on the distance scale

Yours seems to be close to infinity mark

I looked at mine it's like jons

When the infinity mark is set at reddish dot index , the screw holding the ring is close to 20 feet near 5.6 index on depth of field scale

Looks like your focus ring is off - not assembled correctly

I stand corrected, Al. Thanks for the additional photos as well. The lens clearly needs more work than just a spring repositioning!
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-17-2017   #33
Peter Jennings
Registered User
 
Peter Jennings's Avatar
 
Peter Jennings is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seoul
Posts: 322
Looking at your lens, I noticed that the gap between the focus ring and aperture ring (A) is too narrow. Also, the gap between the mount and focus ring (B) is too wide (mine measures 4.4cm). This is likely also related to the coupling ring being misaligned.

[IMG]1ba6f55d14169cef6288b73ae1face12 by Peter Jennings, on Flickr[/IMG]

I don't think the fix is that hard. Just remove the three tiny grub screws holding the focus ring in place. No need to remove anything else. With the focus ring loose, grasp the focus ring/mount together in one hand and the coupling ring/rear lens group in the other. Rotate so that the gap between the aperture ring and focus ring widens and the white dots line up at the appropriate f-stop. Also, there should be machined holes under the focus ring for the grub screws lock into. They need to line up with the holes in the focus ring. It may take some trial and error to get there.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-19-2017   #34
nomadia
Registered User
 
nomadia is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 114
To update this thread, this lens has been sent to Youxin Ye. This was after trying (and repeatedly failing) to put the spring back 🤡. Finnicky is an understatement to say the least. If you're a non-technical person like me, don't even try. Thanks again for the help. I hope this thread will be of great help to those inclined to DIY this lens. Cheers!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-19-2017   #35
richardHaw
junk scavenger
 
richardHaw's Avatar
 
richardHaw is offline
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 177
this is going to be on my "to write" list

my next one has to do with Nikon's 100th anniversary so probably in august

when I do not have the clip, I use my mouth to push the spring up while I install the screw
__________________
Take me down to the Parallax City
Where the viewfinder's tiny
And the framing is tricky
http://www.richardhaw.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-19-2017   #36
NIKON KIU
Did you say Nippon Kogaku
 
NIKON KIU's Avatar
 
NIKON KIU is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington DC suburbs
Age: 55
Posts: 1,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadia View Post
To update this thread, this lens has been sent to Youxin Ye. This was after trying (and repeatedly failing) to put the spring back 🤡. Finnicky is an understatement to say the least. If you're a non-technical person like me, don't even try. Thanks again for the help. I hope this thread will be of great help to those inclined to DIY this lens. Cheers!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think you did the right thing, I sent one out and afterwards, the pictures were much sharper after CLA, it never hurts to do a CLA on a lens this old.

Just wondering, can you tell us what price was quoted?

Thanks,

Kiu
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-20-2017   #37
nomadia
Registered User
 
nomadia is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by NIKON KIU View Post
I think you did the right thing, I sent one out and afterwards, the pictures were much sharper after CLA, it never hurts to do a CLA on a lens this old.

Just wondering, can you tell us what price was quoted?

Thanks,
Kiu
He quoted $90 plus shipping.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-30-2017   #38
nomadia
Registered User
 
nomadia is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 114


Got the lens back from Youxin a week after he received it in the mail. Everything works as it should.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-30-2017   #39
Peter Jennings
Registered User
 
Peter Jennings's Avatar
 
Peter Jennings is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seoul
Posts: 322
Glad to hear it!
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:35.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.