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New CT scans at airport eager to deep fry your film
Old 2 Weeks Ago   #1
sanmich
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New CT scans at airport eager to deep fry your film

According to these two sources, a new type of CT scans is now used in part of the US at the hand luggage check point.

https://petapixel.com/2019/10/21/bew...r-camera-film/

https://kosmofoto.com/2019/10/new-ai...rocessed-film/

I understand presenting a few rolls out of their canisters should not be a problem.
But I wonder how TSA agents react when you ask for a hand inspection for 100s of rolls, bulk film boxes, 120 film in their protecting wrap or large format film boxes...
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #2
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanmich View Post
But I wonder how TSA agents react when you ask for a hand inspection...
No doubt with professional integrity, patience, and care I'm sure
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #4
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The PetaPixel article links back to the Kosmo Foto article. Almost everything I’ve seen on this topic, so far, links back to that article. Kodak has also updated their Storage and Care Guidance document, with regard to airport x-rays, indicating a hand check should always be requested.

https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/site...ro/CIS_E30.pdf

I’ve seen a number of reports from people who have had their film go through the new machines with no ill effect. Until there is more corroborating information, either way, I will probably err on the side of caution and request a hand check, or not travel with film. I’ve never been refused a hand check in the US, although I have generally just let it go though the hand-check scanners. However traveling internationally may pose a problem.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #5
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This scam made it to RFF now. Cosmo is film repackager who wants to generate traffic on his site. Nothing else. Fake news.

New scanners were implemented since 2017. By now it is 145 of them all over the States.
How many real cases are reported by now? Zero.
My film went through them at least three times. Nothing.
One of the first scanners was at Logan. They have sign - safe up to ISO 800.
For those who are in tin hats, pushing 400 film to 3200 doesn't makes it 3200.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #6
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This is from TSA themselves:

https://www.tsa.gov/computed-tomography
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanmich View Post
This is from TSA themselves:
https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-...ing/items/film

Quote:
We recommend that you put undeveloped film and cameras containing undeveloped film in your carry-on bags or take undeveloped film with you to the checkpoint and ask for a hand inspection.
https://www.tsa.gov/news/releases/20...-roll-out-plan

Quote:
More than 145 will be in airports by the end of fiscal year 2019.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul View Post
No doubt with professional integrity, patience, and care I'm sure
You know they have been really nice to me in US airports when I ask for a hand check for my film.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanmich View Post
This is from TSA themselves:

https://www.tsa.gov/computed-tomography
We recommend that you put undeveloped film and cameras containing undeveloped film in your carry-on bags or take undeveloped film with you to the checkpoint and ask for a hand inspection.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #10
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Update.
This is the answer of TSA to my question:
Most x-ray machines used to screen carry-on bags should not damage undeveloped film under ASA\ISO 800. There are a limited number of screening checkpoints that use x-ray equipment that may damage undeveloped film. These airports will have signage in front of the x-ray stating that the x-ray may damage undeveloped film.

If you are traveling with the following types of film, please pack it in a clear plastic bag, remove it from your carry-on bag at the checkpoint, and ask for a hand inspection:
• Film with an ASA\ISO 800 or higher
• Highly sensitive x-ray or scientific films
• Film that is or will be underexposed
• Film that you intend to “push process”
• Sheet film
• Large format film
• Medical film
• Scientific film
• Motion picture film
• Professional grade film
• Film of any speed that is subjected to x-ray screening more than five times

In most cases, the x-ray equipment used for screening checked baggage will damage undeveloped film; therefore, please place undeveloped film in carry-on bags.


Now I wonder how this works when you buy 100 rolls of Tri-X and several bulk rolls of HP5 in the US, and fly back with them home. Will I take the risk?
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanmich View Post
Update.
This is the answer of TSA to my question:
Most x-ray machines used to screen carry-on bags should not damage undeveloped film under ASA\ISO 800. There are a limited number of screening checkpoints that use x-ray equipment that may damage undeveloped film. These airports will have signage in front of the x-ray stating that the x-ray may damage undeveloped film.

If you are traveling with the following types of film, please pack it in a clear plastic bag, remove it from your carry-on bag at the checkpoint, and ask for a hand inspection:
• Film with an ASA\ISO 800 or higher
• Highly sensitive x-ray or scientific films
• Film that is or will be underexposed
• Film that you intend to “push process”
• Sheet film
• Large format film
• Medical film
• Scientific film
• Motion picture film
• Professional grade film
• Film of any speed that is subjected to x-ray screening more than five times

In most cases, the x-ray equipment used for screening checked baggage will damage undeveloped film; therefore, please place undeveloped film in carry-on bags.


Now I wonder how this works when you buy 100 rolls of Tri-X and several bulk rolls of HP5 in the US, and fly back with them home. Will I take the risk?
I only shoot with professional grade film...
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Old 1 Week Ago   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
For those who are in tin hats, pushing 400 film to 3200 doesn't makes it 3200.
The effect of scanner fogging will be just as visible on pushed 400iso film as on your imaginary "3200 iso" film.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #13
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Thanks for the heads up.

I'll be traveling through LAX over the Holidays with film so will ask for a hand check. It may come out the other end with no damage but I am pretty sure it won't be damaged if it is checked by hand.


Besides, I've done this a number of times already because I commonly travel with Delta 3200 and have never been refused, even on International travel.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #14
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Always seems to be far more threads on forums about people worrying about x-ray damage, than actual posts from people who’ve experienced x-ray damage. I wonder why that is ?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
You know they have been really nice to me in US airports when I ask for a hand check for my film.
I agree. I've had the best experiences requesting hand checks in US airports and sometimes they have even suggested it without my request.

Not so much here in Europe where I've pretty much given up asking for hand checks and just take my chances with the X-ray. Otherwise all I'm doing is holding up the line with the end result being the same. Most times they don't even understand what the problem would be and even if they do they will just say it's fine.

One thing I've learned is not to put my big medium format camera in the same bag as the film as, 9 times out of 10, they will want to scan the camera bag again to find out what this big brick is.

All that being said, I've had a lot of film going through a lot of x-rays and so far I've never encountered x-ray damage. But the fact remains that theoretically it's a possibility so there's always a worry. Sure, I don't actually know what the machines they use are capable of in terms of x-ray damage but neither does the person operating it.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie123 View Post
I agree. I've had the best experiences requesting hand checks in US airports and sometimes they have even suggested it without my request.

Not so much here in Europe where I've pretty much given up asking for hand checks and just take my chances with the X-ray. Otherwise all I'm doing is holding up the line with the end result being the same. Most times they don't even understand what the problem would be and even if they do they will just say it's fine.

One thing I've learned is not to put my big medium format camera in the same bag as the film as, 9 times out of 10, they will want to scan the camera bag again to find out what this big brick is.

All that being said, I've had a lot of film going through a lot of x-rays and so far I've never encountered x-ray damage. But the fact remains that theoretically it's a possibility so there's always a worry. Sure, I don't actually know what the machines they use are capable of in terms of x-ray damage but neither does the person operating it.
Yeah in Europe they always refuse to hand check. My film has not been damaged by the xray machines that they are using.

The thing now is that these are a new type of xray machine. I fly out of LAX almost weekly but have not seen the new machines. When I do I am tempted to throw in a sacrificial roll of film just to see if it actually damages the film so we as a collective know for sure, instead of relying on heresay.
But the rest I will still hand check!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
New scanners were implemented since 2017. By now it is 145 of them all over the States.
How many real cases are reported by now? Zero.
My film went through them at least three times. Nothing.
One of the first scanners was at Logan. They have sign - safe up to ISO 800.
For those who are in tin hats, pushing 400 film to 3200 doesn't makes it 3200.
Are you sure they are the new scanners? I have not seen them yet at LAX and I travel a lot. Perhaps not at the terminals I fly out from?
The current/old generation scanners have not damaged my film.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #18
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I understand TSA agents are understanding when it comes to hand checking rolls of film.
But have any of you in the US experienced any problem asking for a hand inspection for large format film? wrapped 120 rolls? Bulk rolls?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #19
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Haven't tried large format film yet. I have traveled many times to Asia and South America with 120 roll film and they have no trouble hand checking the film though I usually don't bother unless I am traveling with Delta 3200. So far no trouble though there have been a couple of occasions at smaller airports in South America where they asked me to wait for a supervisor. Never missed a flight because of that though.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #20
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And this is from Kodak (unrelated to CT scans, but maybe to the way to help TSA agents check bulk film or large format film boxes)

"In any of these cases, you should request visual inspection of your film and of any cameras containing film. Depending on the format(s) of film you have, carrying a light-tight changing bag may be advisable to help the inspection process. Remember that this is only a guaranteed option in U.S. air travel. Outside of the U.S. you are required to comply with the local standards and regulations."

The source:
https://www.kodak.com/global/en/serv...U0iydEDum7Tah4
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Old 1 Week Ago   #21
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Fed Ex or USPS for me. I ship to my destination if at all possible, and always ship exposed film home. Insuring a package or adding a signature confirmation can help it arrive more safely, but I can count on half of one hand the number of things I’ve had lost by either carrier in the last 30 years.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sepiareverb View Post
Fed Ex or USPS for me. I ship to my destination if at all possible, and always ship exposed film home. Insuring a package or adding a signature confirmation can help it arrive more safely, but I can count on half of one hand the number of things Iíve had lost by either carrier in the last 30 years.
That's an excellent option indeed.
Just a bit more complicated when doing this international, and there is always the risk of Xray use on the parcel itself (customs or homeland security)
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Old 1 Week Ago   #23
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Time before last I flew, I ended up buying my film at Calumet (remember them?) mostly because I forgot to pack much, and packed it USPS back just fine. I’ve heard rumors of postal service irradiation, but I send out my color film to processors Priority Mail and never any mishaps.

My most recent trip last month (first time flying in half a decade, oof), I was a little nervous. SeaTac has some new automated conveyor contraption for scanning where the guys manning the scanners are in some booth somewhere else. Took a minute to find someone to ask, but they did do a hand scan. Little nervous carry it and my camera bag back to another room.

Flying back out through IAH was same old, same old. Off peak hours, friendly agents that were more than happy to, and chat about photography.

One told me they rarely see film anymore, but it’s not like staff don’t know policy. They have a puffer detector specifically for things that can’t go through X-rays, be it film or medical devices.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takkun View Post
..., but itís not like staff donít know policy. They have a puffer detector specifically for things that canít go through X-rays, be it film or medical devices.
That's really what I wanted to hear.

So whatever is put in front of them, be it a medical device or a relatively large box of film, they can (have to?) inspect it without xrays?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanmich View Post
That's really what I wanted to hear.

So whatever is put in front of them, be it a medical device or a relatively large box of film, they can (have to?) inspect it without xrays?
I assume within reason. Obviously I don't think they'd be too happy with you asking to hand-inspect all your luggage. But they do have explosives-detection devices for all sorts of non-x-ray-able things. The gentleman in front of me at IAH had a walker that they swabbed and he was on his way.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #26
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Quote:
New CT scans at airport eager to deep fry your film
Haven’t noticed it. But my wife and I have TSA pre. Usually different lines/equipment. Why not get TSA pre? $85 for 5 years. There is also Clear.

Recently traveled to Phoenix. Another trip to LAX.

No problems. Didn’t notice any CT scan equipment different than in the past.

Will watch as we’re going to Egypt soon. 2 weeks on the Nile
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Old 1 Week Ago   #27
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Are you sure they are the new scanners? I have not seen them yet at LAX and I travel a lot. Perhaps not at the terminals I fly out from?
The current/old generation scanners have not damaged my film.
I hope for the best since I just had the same undeveloped film go through 8 airport checks including LAX twice. The photos are important since they are literally irreplaceable, because of death. I wish I had known this.

Depending on resolution a CT scan can be 50 times the radiation of a single X-ray or it can be 1000 time a single X-ray, so in future I won't risk it. At the lower end, 8 checkpoints x 50 = 400 of the old scans.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #28
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Avoided the Smiths CT scanner at Melbourne airport and got in line for what looked like a traditional X-ray scanner.

I asked the attendant if it was a CT scanner, to confirm. He didn't have a clue, and asked me why. I told him I had film. He said I should remove it, and I asked for a hand scan. Despite some resistance, as I had 400 iso max, I got it hand inspected. Well done Melbourne airport security!

I was pleased with the outcome, but the operator I spoke with had no idea what a CT scanner even was. That's disconcerting. Not sure I'll have the same accommodating treatment in future. Here's hoping!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #29
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He didn’t have a clue, and asked me why.

That's disconcerting. Not sure I'll have the same accommodating treatment in future. Here's hoping!
Mute-on, I'm curious as to what causes ’ to be inserted into the text. It seems to happen when you type an apostrophe. Did you realize this is happening?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takkun View Post
..They have a puffer detector specifically for things that canít go through X-rays, be it film or medical devices.

Interesting thing that happened on my last time through LAX. I had Fuji 160ProS 35mm film with me and asked for a hand check. They used the puffer detector which gave a warning. They did it several times - warning. The TSA staff member apologized to me for the delay but said she had to use a different detector to make sure - same warning. Then they had to put it through the Xray machine as - understandably - the film had triggered warnings with the puffer machines.

This film is part of the same batch as my other Fuji film that I have never had issues with before. It was stored in my fridge with all my other film. I do not have anything in my house that could leave residue - whether from hobbies, smoking etc. Don't go to places that people shoot their toys etc etc.
So the only thing I can think of is did something get on me just by being outside? There have been fires in California so the air is not clean.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #31
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Mute-on, I'm curious as to what causes ’ to be inserted into the text. It seems to happen when you type an apostrophe. Did you realize this is happening?
It's from using Tapatalk to post, which apparently inserts a code like that to replace curly quotes and apostrophes. I sometimes edit to correct that...
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Old 1 Week Ago   #32
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Huss—
Very curious indeed, but thankfully there doesn't seem much evidence the carry-on scanners do much damage.

That does remind me of my own story. I do a little bit of target shooting at an air/small-caliber range here in Seattle. I was plinking away with my air pistol one afternoon next to a gentleman with a .22 semiautomatic.
Next day on my way to work, I dropped my messenger bag on the bus and about 15 shell casings fell out, to the suspicion of my fellow passengers. Must've gotten ejected straight into my bag sitting just behind me.
I'm definitely not bringing that bag on my flight tomorrow...

I wonder if your trouble did indeed have to do with the smoke. I'm not sure what compounds the trace detectors look for specifically. No problems here, but we didn't have a smoky summer this year. Curious if anyone else had items to be hand-inspected that day.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #33
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I'm tired of dealing with TSA and film. Last year I started shipping film to the motel of my first night's destination and travel with a small collapsed box that I ship the B&W film back home from my last destination before re-boarding the plane (and ship the color film to Dwaynes at the same time).

Haven't had a problem yet with the new workflow.

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Old 1 Week Ago   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug View Post
It's from using Tapatalk to post, which apparently inserts a code like that to replace curly quotes and apostrophes. I sometimes edit to correct that...
This is kind of funny. I first read this on Tapatalk and wondered why Rob-F was asking about apostrophes! Surely Rob knows this about English grammar, I thought.

On tapatalk, the &rsquo appears as an apostrophe. But now I'm on the computer, the Tapatalk apostrophe is now &rsquo, and suddenly his post makes sense, hahaha.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug View Post
It's from using Tapatalk to post, which apparently inserts a code like that to replace curly quotes and apostrophes. I sometimes edit to correct that...
Correct. I was using Tapatalk. Apologies for the distracting random symbols.

Blazing through Ektar over here in Japan. Portra 400 is in the second body waiting for the next opportunity. Kyoto next ...
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Old 1 Week Ago   #36
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That's an excellent option indeed.
Just a bit more complicated when doing this international, and there is always the risk of Xray use on the parcel itself (customs or homeland security)
Iíve not done an international Fed-Ex for awhile, but my local office here in Podunk said they could mark it as photosensitive and it would be handled separately. No fog was seen upon development.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #37
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Always seems to be far more threads on forums about people worrying about x-ray damage, than actual posts from people who’ve experienced x-ray damage. I wonder why that is ?
I have traveled a bit this year for work and personal- mainly domestic, but also Mexico and Canada once each (Europe once, but took digital), and Guatemala once. Domestically, no issues. They will hand check film and cameras with film. Once my camera set-off the hand check chemical detector, so I rolled up half the roll, and had them open then x-ray the open camera, and hand check the film. Coming back from Montreal, they refused to hand check my camera with film loaded, so I put it through the x-ray (FP4+, no issues). In Mexico, I got picked for a random custom's inspection coming in, messed up and put everything through (realized what I did, but it was too late). This included Fujifilm Superia XTRA 400 and Ilford B&W (FP4+, possibly HP5 also), all unexposed. As far as I can tell, no issues. In Guatemala they also did a hand check. If I recall correctly, all the International hand checks consisted of basically looking at the film outside the box (including Canada). In the US they wipe it and put the wipe through a chemical screener.

A couple of times, I fumbled and accidentally put a roll through a domestic hand bag x-ray (Fijifilm Superia XTRA 400, and probably an Ilford FP4+ or HP5 or two), so far with no ill effects. At this point I am not anal about it, but still ask for hand checks.
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