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SLRs - the unRF For those of you who must talk about SLRs, if only to confirm they are not RF.

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Old 11-29-2013   #41
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I'm starting to get jealous.
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Old 11-29-2013   #42
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In a perfect world I'd like to shoot side by side with Lynn with my D700 and a Zeiss prime for a direct comparison of the two systems and how the Zeiss renders compared to the heritage primes and how the D700 sensor stacks up against the DF.

If we lived a little closer?
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Old 11-29-2013   #43
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I don't want this to sound as patronising as it inevitably will do, BUT good on you. If you liked what you saw and ended up buying one despite the naysayers then thats a good thing. People forget that cameras are as personal as the vision that we express with them.

The Df intrigued me hugely but as a freelancer I need to make sure every bit of kit counts and the Df wasn't quite different enough to make sound financial sense.

I'm interested to see how 6-12 months may make a difference to those that sling the 'fanboy' phrase around, perhaps by then it will be just another camera option.

I hope you're loving it....and if truth be told, when prices come down I may throw a bit more money Nikons way.
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Old 11-29-2013   #44
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I really, really, really want to hate Nikon for making a camera that, to me, seems to have the controls in all the right places and then set such a high price. Now, I need to figure out how to buy one. Thanks for nothing, KoNickon!
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Old 11-29-2013   #45
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Quote:
The D700 is more comfortable. It's ergonomically designed. My pinky finger has a place to rest, your shutter finger is perfectly positioned, the front command dial is spot on. It's got heft to it. Still my favorite of all Nikon cameras ever.

The Dƒ is shorter and much lighter. It doesn't have the nice cushiony feel of the rubber and my pinky finger dangles. If it were I smidge taller I wouldn't complain (everyone is in for the ultra-compact these days). The shutter-release button isn't right there, but it's not uncomfortable to find. It's just like an old F (I put one on hold today). The aperture dial is a little awkward, it's smallish and is a stretch to reach in portrait orientation. It's much lighter. I'd say about D90-ish, maybe a little heavier.

It's definitely got that old camera feel to it. It's not a DXXX. Those things are designed for all day pro shooting. While this will be my main camera from now on I'll probably use my D700 over it on 8-10hr sporting events.

I haven't put any pro zooms on it yet, so I can't really tell how it's going to balance out, but the 50mm SE is perfect for it. I'm glad I decided to go kit instead of body only. The Sigma 35mm f/1.4 actually kinda dwarfs it, but it's still a nicely balanced combo.

Now anything that sounds detrimental don't take it that way. This is a camera that isn't built for comfort. Nor is it built for speed. It's stylish and that comes with the price of not being the most comfortable camera. I knew that going in. This is definitely a "thinking photographer's" camera. Any design quirks are pretty obvious going in. But I like the style and I'm sure I'll get used to it and it will feel like "mine" in a short time.

The IQ is stunning. I'm shooting Gary Clark Jr. tonight so this will be my first chance at putting both the Dƒ and my new M9-P through the low-light concert test.
Even though I really like my Df... I would not replace a D700 with the Df for your line of work. I would even be very hesitant to recommend the Df to a photographer who primarily uses modern, latest generation lenses. In fact, if I was doing an assignment where I needed to use zoom lenses, AF, AE, etc with the latest generation of Nikkors, I would definitely not choose the Df. I would be grabbing a D3, D700, or D4.

The Df was designed to use legacy MF Nikkormat lenses, yes, Nikon should be supplying alternate focusing screens for those wanting a split-image, but the Df focuses very well directly off the ground glass.

At first I considered the 'scroll wheels' as superfluous, but I am glad Nikon included them so that I can use the Nikon Df with the latest generation lenses if I choose to. But so far the 'scroll wheels' are redundant and unneeded to use the Df for my method of usage.

D700 has to be one of Nikon's best cameras ever, the Df is a different beast altogether designed for different type of photographer and photography.
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Old 11-29-2013   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
In a perfect world I'd like to shoot side by side with Lynn with my D700 and a Zeiss prime for a direct comparison of the two systems and how the Zeiss renders compared to the heritage primes and how the D700 sensor stacks up against the DF.

If we lived a little closer?
Keith,

I am pretty sure that your D700 with Zeiss primes would soundly trump the Df with old Nikkor primes... but that is not the point... the old Nikkors have their own personality.

The Df definitely has enough pixels, any more resolution would tear the old lenses to pieces. The D4 sensor was a good choice in my opinion.
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Old 11-29-2013   #47
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Originally Posted by P. Lynn Miller View Post
Keith,

I am pretty sure that your D700 with Zeiss primes would soundly trump the Df with old Nikkor primes... but that is not the point... the old Nikkors have their own personality.

The Df definitely has enough pixels, any more resolution would tear the old lenses to pieces. The D4 sensor was a good choice in my opinion.

I really only have modern glass for my D700 and have often hankered for some legacy lenses to try on it ... particularly a portrait lens.

May have to look into this!
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Old 11-29-2013   #48
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i think the answer to my own question is a simple one. DF is designed to work with legacy nikon lenses and its 16mp sensor is going to be a lot more forgiving of those lenses. the 36mp sensor in D800 is completely unforgiven to most lenses other than the very hi-res modern ones that are designed for high mp digital sensors.
In theory, but not so much in practice has been my experience.
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Old 11-29-2013   #49
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From where I sit the Df sounds like the perfect camera for certain types of photography with legacy MF lenses. I would probably consider it were it not for the price. Will keep an eye out for price reductions.
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Old 11-29-2013   #50
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Thanks a lot, Lynn, for these shots and the review. I have a D700 right now, and may go the Df route the day my current dSLR gives up the ghost...

But by then, who knows what models they'll have. Perhaps a digital N80 or some such quirk?

Again, thanks for the review and the photographs!
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Old 11-29-2013   #51
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I'm on the fence about the DF, mostly concerned about its size/weight. I would have liked things like the AF from my D700 along with the 1/8000 shutter but we didn't get it so what can you do.

I used to lug around the D700 along with some fast primes to a lot of places but it got tiring after a while (I'm not a pro). I've got some fantastic gear but unfortunately it isn't getting used enough. Recently I picked up an RX1 hoping that it would bring back some inspiration/incentive to carry a camera with me and it has! It's a lot easier to throw the RX1 into your wifes purse or day bag. That said, having a tough time deciding between the A7R and DF right now. Unfortunately non of the dealers in my area have one that I can throw my primes on to play with.

My D700 has just under 7k shutter actuation's so that gives you an idea of how "light" I've been with my stuff. In fact it's currently up for sale.
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Old 11-29-2013   #52
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The one lens that I want to see on the Df is the 58mm 1.4G. It has a distinct look that to my eye is very pleasing.
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Old 11-29-2013   #53
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I had a chance to play around with a DF this afternoon.
It's everything that Lynn and other people in this thread had mentioned.
I find the controls quiet easily after a quick glance, all the settings are right there, the weight (or lack there of) and size is quiet pleasant to my hands. The whole (10 minutes or so) experience was nice, and does bring muscle memory from the older manual bodies.

When I do upgrade, I would still have to decide on either the D800 or DF though. As both are different tools.

my 2 cents.
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Old 11-29-2013   #54
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There's a fair bit of crap being talked about this camera around the net IMO ... and I can't really think why?

The knockers seem to really dislike it and appear to be personally offended by it's design ... some things never change I guess!
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Old 11-29-2013   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
There's a fair bit of crap being talked about this camera around the net IMO ... and I can't really think why?

The knockers seem to really dislike it and appear to be personally offended by it's design ... some things never change I guess!
It's been said several times in this thread and I have to agree. Resentment. People secretly want it (or something close to it) but can't/won't afford it. That generates an insatiable rancor that people justify through all sorts of sophisticated uses of reason.

Cameras could be such excellent training in the antidote to envy, if only people would just realize it.
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Old 11-30-2013   #56
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Originally Posted by P. Lynn Miller View Post

I think Nikon has out-maneuvered the competition and silenced the critics with the Df and done what no other camera company has been brave enough to do... design and manufacture a camera that the majority of modern camera users think is a bad idea, over-priced, under-spec'ed, and the death-knell of the company, but provides a real bridge for us old, grumpy MF lenses owners, with a full-frame sensor and a great optical finder, that let's the old MF lenses be used to their potential instead an EVF/crop sensor wannabe concoction.
I agree completely, well said!

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Old 11-30-2013   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
There's a fair bit of crap being talked about this camera around the net IMO ... and I can't really think why?

The knockers seem to really dislike it and appear to be personally offended by it's design ... some things never change I guess!
Spot on Keith. And what ever you do, don't dare to criticise what the knockers/killjoys are using. They'll rip your throat out.
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Old 11-30-2013   #58
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How does that aperture dial feel? It looks odd, almost non functional. How is it in practice?
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Old 11-30-2013   #59
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How is focussing with manual lenses? The main legitimate complaint I've seen is the lack of a split focusing screen.
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Old 11-30-2013   #60
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Originally Posted by thereabouts View Post
How is focussing with manual lenses? The main legitimate complaint I've seen is the lack of a split focusing screen.
This is the key issue. I see no option but to take a couple of AI/ AIS lenses to the camera shop and try it for myself.

I do have one question though. On the DF where is the green dot located?
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Old 11-30-2013   #61
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Originally Posted by Davewolfs View Post
How does that aperture dial feel? It looks odd, almost non functional. How is it in practice?
From my short play with it, your finger will 'find' it in an instance. It's not awkward, maybe because it's positioned closer to your body than compared to the horizontal sub-command dial on a pro body (D700).

The store also had a non-AI lens, which he showed me how to mount and program. The aperture selected can be seen in the viewfinder.
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Old 11-30-2013   #62
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Folks,

I appreciate everyone's comments here. This is great stuff and for those who have the Df congratulations on your purchase it's a lovely camera.

I've made a decision and I am going to pass on the Df for now.

Here is my reasoning (not trying to burst anyone's bubble!)

- On the low ISO end, I miss out on 1 stop increased DR, pretty sure I can live with that.
- On the high ISO end, the D700 is pretty decent to 3200. Seems similar to Df at 6400. I have my D700 auto ISO maxed out at 3200 and that has worked for me. Df High ISO is incredible, 25600 looks similar to D700 6400. So clearly, I'm losing out here. For those who are new to digital I HIGHLY suggest learning the Auto ISO feature of your Df. It's a gift.
- Resolution increase of 4MP not worried about it.
- Keep the 1/8000 shutter (oddly I have quite a few pictures over 1/4000)
- Keep the AF (which I'm pretty happy with)
- I don't own any manual lenses, my eyes aren't good so I doubt using some nice MF Zeiss would magically become significantly easier
- Lose on weight but I don't think it matters, the Df is still "chunky" as it should be for F mount lenses (otherwise would be too small). If I can curl a 65lb dumb bell with one arm, I shouldn't be complaining about 300 grams.
- I have big hands and the D700 controls work really well for me. Perhaps the Df controls would work for me, but need to play with it. Maybe I'll rent one.

As for A7(R). I'm going to pass too. The fact that there is one native lens right now that people say is closer to 40mm than 35mm and isn't too great doesn't excite me. As for adapted lenses, what works and what doesn't seems to be all over the place. I'm not into experimenting.

There are also reports that the RX1 is faster in operation than the A7(R). I find this hard to believe because the RX1 is piss poor slow in dim lighting conditions. It's a camera you need to be very patient with. I would expect more from the A7(R). So will pass on being an early adopter at least for now. I think it makes sense to see what Zeiss's next move is in terms of lenses.

Sorry if I bored you! The RX1 and D700 will remain in the bag.
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Old 11-30-2013   #63
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I find MF to be about the same as all of the other Nikon DSLRs. It's OK if you have good eyes, but mine aren't all that they used to be so I rely on the green dot a lot (which is located in the viewfinder display bottom left corner where it's always been).
Thanks for answering my question.
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Old 11-30-2013   #64
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What has changed with Auto ISO in the DF?
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Old 11-30-2013   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davewolfs View Post
How does that aperture dial feel? It looks odd, almost non functional. How is it in practice?
My thought was... why would the aperture dial look odd or be nonfunctional... it is where it always was on the lens... then I realised you were talking about the dially thing on the front of the Df which I have never used.

Quote:
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How is focussing with manual lenses? The main legitimate complaint I've seen is the lack of a split focusing screen.
For me it was a plus not to have a split image, I never liked or used a split-image screen in my film Nikons.

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Great pics. Love the colors. That camera would jump right in with my other Nikons. I just wish it cost 1K less....
Thanks for the post
I wish it would have cost $1000 less as well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davewolfs View Post
Sorry if I bored you! The RX1 and D700 will remain in the bag.
Makes perfect sense to me... not boring at all.
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Old 11-30-2013   #66
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Nothing new with the Dƒ specifically, but with the D7100 and forward there's a feature that enables the camera to detect the focal length of the lens and adjust the minimum shutter speed accordingly, you can also set to prefer a faster or slower minimum shutter speed depending on what you need.

I loved the Auto-ISO in the D700, but Nikon has made it much better. To the point where I almost never touch the ISO setting unless I'm using flash or doing studio work. I have it dialed in exactly as I like and it works flawlessly. If the D700 had that update It would literally almost be perfect. (though I have come to appreciate a few more MP's)
Good to know. That sounds quite convenient, I wasn't aware of this. It's surprising that they would not update the firmware to include this.
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Old 12-01-2013   #67
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Yeah it does. But the $250 "kit" 50 is a steal. The price of that 58 is preeeeeety steep. Then again, if it were a Leica lens I wouldn't even blink. BUT you always know that you aren't going to lose a substantial amount with a Leica lens if you sell it.
How is it a steal? They're charging you $50 more for a "retro" silver plastic ring that doesn't even do anything.

Would've rather they charged $100 more and made a modified 50/1.8G with an aperture ring.
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Old 12-01-2013   #68
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I run into my first issues with the Nikon Df...

Using the Nikkor-N 35mm f1.4, I seem to missing my focus point too often. Not sure I can totally blame the Df as the optical cell rattles in the 35/f1.4 when you shake it, so it could be that i never noticed it while using film since it is much easier with digital to zoom to 100% to check focus.

I am also struggling with exposure. Part of it is the I am rusty from not using a camera for 3 years and I am not as sharp with knowing the exposure that I need, but the sensor in the Df responds differently than Tri-X. For the past 15 years my main film was Tri-X rated at 250ASA and developed in Rodinal, so my exposure guesstimates are abit off. The Df sensor worked better with underexposure and not so well with overexposure like Tri-X. So mostly operator error.

I have just started to realise how far behind the curve I am, while using a Df, I just noticed last night that you can see the meter in the viewfinder and use it to help set your exposure. I have not used a meter in my camera since I stopped using Kodachrome 64 a long time ago.

I have so much to sort out, my monitors are way out-of-whack, I need to get the latest version of CaptureNX2, and have to spend some time to really workout my B&W conversions. All I really want is a preset that works like Tri-X rated at ASA 250 and developed in Rodinal 1:50 for B&W and a Kodachrome 64 preset for color. I am pretty easy.
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Old 12-01-2013   #69
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I like to shoot in A mode. And utilize Exp Comp when needed. The same can be done in M mode and seeing how your exposure is in viewfinder.

One nice thing if cam had EVF is you get the live histogram without having to chimp.
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Dfing around ... bliss ?
Old 03-31-2014   #70
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Dfing around ... bliss ?

Thanks for this thread

Well I use the X-E2, RX1, A7, M240 and I think the Df is brilliant.
The dials are wonderful to use, you can be set with the camera turned off. Yes I like the X-T1 as well BTW but the dials of the Df are easier to use IMHO.
The Df is also surprisingly light. With many lenses lighter then the M240.

The real plus points are the sensor, speed of operation compared to CSCs, dials, look (love it or hate it, all non-photogs I show it think its really cool), extent of lenses in the Nikon system and their quality and cost. Ones to point out in the value sector with awesome performance are the 28mm f1.8, 35mm f1.8G FX, 24-85mm VR, 85mm f1.8G, 50mm f1.8G SE to mention just a few and thats not to count the brilliant third party lenses, like the Sigma 35mm Art, Tamron 70-300mm SP VR, etc.

This is a great camera, if you like its design (and sure, its not for everybody), with an extensive and lightweight lens system that is sheer fun to use and lovely to pick up and carry around. What more can you want from a camera ....
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Old 04-16-2014   #71
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I am probably going to get a Df early this summer... Sort of a retirement present to myself and maybe the last camera I buy for a long time. I still have the black Nikon F I bought new back in 1972.

Which brings me to my question: Does anyone here have any experience with having non-AI lenses converted by John White (www.aiconversions.com)?

I have non-AI versions of the 35/f2, 55f3.5 Micro and 85f/1.8.
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Old 04-16-2014   #72
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I'd like to hear from those of you who have owned the camera for a while. Are you happy with it? In particular, how is it to focus with manual lenses? I understand that there are now aftermarket focusing screens available -- has anyone installed one? If so, how difficult was it to do? Does it affect the other camera functions?

I put aside my desire for this camera once it came out (damn you 0.95 Noctilux!), but my interest in it has come around again. Any thoughts/advice from current Df owners would be greatly appreciated.

BTW I also own a D4 and D800 -- would love to know how the ergonomics differ between them and the Df.
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Old 04-22-2014   #73
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Just placed my order and expect the Df to land towards the end of this week.

I've imported from Digital Rev as there is circa a £1000 saving and I'm able to avoid having to get the kit lens. Opted instead to pick up the Nikkor 50mm 1.4 AF-D as opposed to the G due to the styling (they look to match the Df's styling very nicely), the higher likelihood of character in the lens, aperture ring & cost saving.

Planning to pick up the 20mm 2.8 AF-D and 85mm 1.4 AF-D soon.

Will update this thread when I've took some decent images with it.
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Old 04-22-2014   #74
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I am joining the Df club too. Traded in some (not all) Leica M gear that I rarely use.

I am not expecting the DF to be the "best ever" camera, but I am expecting it to be a nice way to ease into DSLR territory.

Stay tuned.... I am sure to have a million stupid question for you to laugh at...

Should arrive next week.
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Old 04-27-2014   #75
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The DF has arrived. Charged the battery and went for a quick walk around the yard. So far, I like it. The body is quite light and fits very comfortably in my problem hands. I ordered a 24-70mm zoom with the camera and have a 50mm in the post. The zoom is HUGE. It seems to perform quite well. Autofocus has come along way since I last tried it on an SLR back in the 80's. Manual focussing with the DF screen is OK too. Anyway, some pics...










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Old 04-28-2015   #76
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I just took delivery of my new black Df this past weekend. I have been spending as much time with it as possible. Is this the "official" thread for images, or is there another one?
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Old 04-29-2015   #77
robert blu
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Interesting to read this thread again one and half year later. Beside my RF cameras (M7 and Bessa R) I'm user of an FM2 and less frequently an F100.

I don't own a DSLR, my wife use a D5100. I'm interested in the DF as "digital substituted" of the FM2 which I mainly use with a 50mm 1,4 AIS and the 20mm 2,8 AFD originally bought to be used on the F100. I love that idea, one camera with a lens and a second lens in the bag, nothing more.

If necessary I could use the 80-200 2,8 or the 35-70 2,8 (both bough in conjunction with the F100 years ago but which now I rarely use, or maybe I could sell them to partially finance the DF).
So the price is high (still affordable) but at least I have most of the lensed I need, no extra to buy. No doubt about files quality.

My main doubt is the size (I have small hands!), the weight when I shortly had one in a shop with my 50 was not so different than my M7 with a 50, I didn't weight them but this was my impression.

Actually where I live the price is the same as when it was introduced in the market and I do not see any in the pre owned market, probably the photographers who bought the DF enjoy it and do not sell.
I'll visit again a shop and try again the handling...maybe this time...
robert

PS: not many shops have it, ideally I would like to rent one for a couple of days to get the real experience, in a few minutes in the shops you only have a first impression which sometimes is not the correct one...
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Old 04-29-2015   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burancap View Post
I just took delivery of my new black Df this past weekend. I have been spending as much time with it as possible. Is this the "official" thread for images, or is there another one?
To much chatter here - I would post in the Your SLR Images thread.

@robert blu: if you use manual focus and lenses with aperture rings, take a look at the Sony A7/A7ii as a digital back to your lenses. Nothing really wrong with the Df but the A7 might be better/cheaper choice.
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Old 04-29-2015   #79
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One of the things that really interests me in the Df is, according to one review, it uses basically the same sensor as the D4. Until recently, I shot for a newspaper and used a D4. The quality of the images off that sensor was astounding, both for clarity and color rendition. I realize there's more to the output than just the sensor. It also matters how the firmware handles the image information before it's saved to the card. Been looking at both the D750 and the D810, both of which have significantly larger sensor ratings. But I"m getting more attracted to the Df with everything I read about it. May just have to pull the trigger and order me one. Now: Silver or black? Decisions, decisions!
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Old 04-29-2015   #80
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Been using this camera for a month and a half and I love it! Haven't been this happy with how a camera feels in my hand since the M9 and the Fuji X-Pro1. I just works right and was just the thing that was needed for someone who doesn't like the huge grip of modern cameras. I use it with the 50mm 1.4g, the 58mm 1.4g, and the 85mm 1.8g. Wonderful camera. I'm partial to the black one.
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