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Tiny pocketable rangefinder for 3200/6400 film
Old 04-26-2006   #1
tammons
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Tiny pocketable rangefinder for 3200/6400 film

Looking for a very small rangefinder p+s camera that has at least an iso 3200.

Not interested in the speed so much as B+W golf ball size grain from Delta 3200.

Want a sharp zoom lens and preferably 28mm-something.

Something i can stuff in my pants pocket so a tiny clamshell would be nice.

Want an all auto mode

Auto focus

Auto exposure, but with a manual aperture mode override.

Would like a fast shutter speed so I dont have to use an nd filter, but I think I will have to use one anyway.

Want LCD readout inside the viewfinder, focus confirm, Aperture and shutter readout etc.

Is there such a camera that is even close ??

I have used the Contax T before and liked it although I would like something smaller. Also thought about the minilux but it only goes to 1/400.

Also used a Yashica T4 but i could never tell where I was shooting.

Any suggestion would be appreciated.

Last edited by tammons : 04-26-2006 at 16:28.
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Old 04-26-2006   #2
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The Ricoh GR1 fits the bill given the above criteria. However, SSpeeds only go to 1/300 I believe.
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Old 04-26-2006   #3
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Sounds more like you need the digital Fuji F30, it does up to 3200 but not a rangefinder but you wanted autofocus anyway.
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Old 04-26-2006   #4
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Not interested in the speed so much as B+W golf ball size grain from Delta 3200.

Should have mentioned that earlier.
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Old 04-26-2006   #5
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Looks like you are not describing a rangefinder. Except maybe the Contax.
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Old 04-26-2006   #6
amateriat
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The Ricoh GR-1's top shutter speed is 1/500. And I think it'll handle ISO 3200 (have to check my manual back home); if it can't go any higher, you can always fudge it via the camera's Very Excellent exposure compensation dial.

(I'm presuming here that you want an AF camera, as opposed to one with coupled RF. At this size, especially, you can't have both.)

I've been going over scans from shots I took with mine before breaking it (my bad, not camera's), and can't wait to get it going again.
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Last edited by amateriat : 04-26-2006 at 19:35. Reason: Terribly embarrassing typo
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Old 04-26-2006   #7
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I have been looking at the GR-1 for quite a while.
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Old 04-26-2006   #8
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There's no reason you have to shoot 3200 speed film at 3200 to get the grain. It is inherently grainy and actually if you have a camera that won't meter for 3200, you will over expose and it will get more grainy. I would recommend an Olympus XA 4 if you set on the 28m or an XA if you can live with 35mm (the XA 4's are hard to find). It isn't auto everything but they are aperture priority. The lens is sharp. It's tiny, virtually silent and you can either zone focus with the XA 4 or hyperfocus with an XA and you are probably good to go. Shooting something like Neopan 1600 and developing in Rodinal will get you good grain.

If you are going for grain you might look into the half frame cameras like the the Olympus Pen's or various others. Blowing up the smaller negative area will get you more grain and the camera is really small as well.
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Old 04-26-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly
If you are going for grain you might look into the half frame cameras like the the Olympus Pen's or various others. Blowing up the smaller negative area will get you more grain and the camera is really small as well.
Thanks I had considered a half frame camera
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Old 04-26-2006   #10
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i was looking for a similar camera, and settled on the olympus stylus epic.

pros: really pocketable. 35 f/2.8. can handle 3200. cheap ($80ish new). clamshell. top shutter of 1/1000.

cons: no manual overrides. or lcd readouts. not your desired 28mm. not a rangefinder.

you can find the exposure program online, so you can usually guess what the camera is doing. the nightmode (with flash) is supposed to be good though i havent tried it yet. i also checked out the XA, but the rangefinder patch was impossibly hard to see, so settled on the epic instead.
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Old 04-26-2006   #11
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Another camera with a 28mm lens, which I'm actually getting as a "stand-in" pocket 35 until my GR-1 gets fixed, is Konica's Lexio 70 with 28-70 zoom. The downside, as is usually the case with zoom-lens p/s cameras, concerns speed and distortion; the good news is that, since Konica chose not to give this camera a crazy-big zoom range, it has more of the former (f/3.4 at 28mm, f/7.9 at 70mm) and less of the latter (just a bit of pincushion at 28mm) than most cameras in this category. It's less versatile than the GR-1 in some ways (less-flexible exposure modes, rudimentary exposure compensation, no adjustable fixed-focus option), but still above-average. Not so easy to find used right now.


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Old 04-26-2006   #12
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The Ricoh GR-D is what you're looking for, that is, if you don't mind it being a digital camera.

28mm lens @ f/2.4
full readout of shutter and aperature
Smaller than the GR-1
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Old 04-27-2006   #13
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I stumbled across the Fuji Natura Classica - thought it might be what you're looking for: http://www.unicircuits.com/shop/prod...roducts_id=100
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Old 04-27-2006   #14
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Besides the Fuji Natura series there is the Silvi f2.8, with a 24-50mm zoom and max iso 3200. Not as good looking as the Natura Classic, but probably cheaper and available at least in Sweden. Not manual override but some kind of exp. compensation. I have found that some Fuji p&s have lenses a notch above average, if not in the Contax T... league.

http://fujifilm.jp/personal/filmcame...f28/specs.html

I had a Fuji Super Mini DL, with a great 28/2.8. It was nice until the exposure meter went crazy and severely overexposed every third shot.
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Last edited by Jacob : 04-27-2006 at 02:14. Reason: adding info
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Old 04-27-2006   #15
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Minolta TC-1, either Aperture priority or fully manual, autofocus or manual focus, spot metering available, most likely the smallest 35mm full frame camera ever, really sharp 28mm rokkor lens, max speed 500, auto iso 25-3200 with manual override from 6 up to 6400

Read a review at

http://classic.mountainzone.com/gear/tc-1/index.html

I sold my Contax T3 after taking one of this babies out for shooting, nothong really comes even close to a TC-1
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Old 04-27-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fgianni
Please note that for some reason the reviewer states that he misses full manual operation, I don't know why since the camera can be used both in AV and full manual mode.
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Old 04-27-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ywenz
The Ricoh GR-D is what you're looking for, that is, if you don't mind it being a digital camera.

28mm lens @ f/2.4
full readout of shutter and aperature
Smaller than the GR-1
Yes well of course, if you are ok with digital the GR-D looks like a good choice, even if I went for the Lumix LX-1 (identical t the Leica D-Lux 2 but cheaper)
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Old 04-27-2006   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ywenz
The Ricoh GR-D is what you're looking for, that is, if you don't mind it being a digital camera.

28mm lens @ f/2.4
full readout of shutter and aperature
Smaller than the GR-1
You missed the point. I want a small, pocketable P+S just for iso 3200 B+W film. I have too many digital cameras already.
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Old 04-27-2006   #19
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Still looking,

Gees this is difficult.

To redefine what I am looking for.........

This is for shooting iso 3200 film, so I am not interested in digital.

Very small, like a clamshell camera.

iso 3200

1/1000 shutter speed min, 1/2000 would be better.

Autofocus

all auto mode.

aperture priority mode override.

Info inside the viewfinder.

Sharp 28-something zoom lens

If I cant find a decent 28-something zoom lens, i might consider something like a GR1 with a 28mm fixed lens and a 2nd camera with a 35-something zoom.

I guess it might be something similar to a Contax G2 only much smaller.
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Old 04-27-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tammons
You missed the point. I want a small, pocketable P+S just for iso 3200 B+W film. I have too many digital cameras already.
None of your pocket digi cams are like the GRD.
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Old 04-27-2006   #21
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1/1000 sec. is going to be well-nigh impossible to find in something that small, let alone with the other features you want. 1/500 top shutter speed isn't all that common for that matter. The two-camera approach might be in order (when my GR-1 is back up and running, I'll likely keep the Konica Lexio 70 alongside for longer focal-length stuff, although 28mm has become a mainstay for a lot of my work).


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Last edited by amateriat : 04-27-2006 at 08:24.
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Old 04-27-2006   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fgianni
Minolta TC-1, either Aperture priority or fully manual, autofocus or manual focus, spot metering available, most likely the smallest 35mm full frame camera ever, really sharp 28mm rokkor lens, max speed 500, auto iso 25-3200 with manual override from 6 up to 6400

Read a review at

http://classic.mountainzone.com/gear/tc-1/index.html

I sold my Contax T3 after taking one of this babies out for shooting, nothong really comes even close to a TC-1
The TC-1 is magnificent in a number of ways, but two things stopped me cold:

- Maximum aperture of f/3.5. Some can deal with it; I couldn't. I suppose a counter-argument could be made that such a maximum aperture probably suffers a bit less from vignetting vis-a-vis the GR-1's 28mm at f/2.8.

- Only four stops from f/3.5 to f/16; this is a result of Minolta using Waterhouse(!) stops in place of an iris diaphragm. On the plus side, of course, you get an absolute perfect circle at every stop maximum bokeh beauty. On the minus side: (1) limited number/range of f/stops, and (2) no means of incorporating Program AE mode in the camera. With the GR-1, Ricoh somehow managed to shoehorn a ten-blade diaphragm into its lens, allowing a pretty decent circle at most apertures, as well as allowing for a Program mode for AE.

Given all that, the TC-1 is a hell of a camera, with optics to match.


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Last edited by amateriat : 04-27-2006 at 08:34. Reason: A few fine points
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Old 04-27-2006   #23
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Okay, looks like I am going back to a Contax TVS.

I used a Contac tvsII a few years ago and i was more than satisfied with the images. Very sharp.

This time I think i will go for a tvs III. I can give up 2mm in lens length for 1/1000 shutter speed.

It has most of the features i want.

Maybe instead of a fixed 28mm P+S camera i will look for a 24mm super wide.
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Old 04-27-2006   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ywenz
None of your pocket digi cams are like the GRD.
i realy dont know what you mean. i am looking for a film camera.
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Old 04-27-2006   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tammons
Still looking,

Gees this is difficult.

To redefine what I am looking for.........

This is for shooting iso 3200 film, so I am not interested in digital.

Very small, like a clamshell camera.

iso 3200

1/1000 shutter speed min, 1/2000 would be better.

Autofocus

all auto mode.

aperture priority mode override.

Info inside the viewfinder.

Sharp 28-something zoom lens

If I cant find a decent 28-something zoom lens, i might consider something like a GR1 with a 28mm fixed lens and a 2nd camera with a 35-something zoom.

I guess it might be something similar to a Contax G2 only much smaller.
Well if you find something with those specs please let me know!
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Old 04-27-2006   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fgianni
Well if you find something with those specs please let me know!
Contax TVSIII is close.
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Old 04-27-2006   #27
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I think Ywenz doesn't get the fact that digital is not a substitute for film.

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Old 04-27-2006   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence
I think Ywenz doesn't get the fact that digital is not a substitute for film.

Clarence
doh! Now someone tells me! Where do I acquire this 'film' that you speak of?
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Old 04-27-2006   #29
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I'm not criticising digital; I'm just saying that I think tammons specifically wants a film camera for now. He may very well wish to replace his digital cameras some other day, and I would agree that the GRD is an excellent choice.

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Old 04-27-2006   #30
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panasonic fx-01 at iso 400...or an olympus pen s, if you can swing it.
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Old 04-27-2006   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ywenz
doh! Now someone tells me! Where do I acquire this 'film' that you speak of?
I am not interested in the utmost quality at iso 3200. I am after golf ball size B+W grain via Delta 3200, and that is the reason for the dilima. I want something I can stick in my pocket, whip out and shoot at ISO 3200.

I already have 4 digital cameras including a Kodak slr, SD9, and a P+S digital, I also have 3 4x5 cameras, an 8x10 camera, a RB67, and several 35mm film cameras including a QL17 so I am not exactly hurting in any department.

I am looking for a specialty camera primarily for Delta 3200 film. B+H
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Old 04-27-2006   #32
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got any half frame cameras?
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Old 04-27-2006   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence
I'm not criticising digital; I'm just saying that I think tammons specifically wants a film camera for now. He may very well wish to replace his digital cameras some other day, and I would agree that the GRD is an excellent choice.

Clarence
Doubt I will ever replace anything digital, as they are versitle all just tools. This is just a specialty camera I want primarily for 3200 film.
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Old 04-27-2006   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost
got any half frame cameras?
Not yet, but I have been thinking about it.
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Old 04-27-2006   #35
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look at '71/ny by moriyama for gobs of grain at even small print sizes.
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Old 04-27-2006   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amateriat
no means of incorporating Program AE mode in the camera.
If you set the TC-1 to f3.5 you could argue that it is the same as having a Program mode, since the camera automatically reduces the aperture as necessary of it can't cope with its maximum shutter speed (1/350 and not 1/500 as I incorrectly stated in a previous post.)

Personally I never felt the need for a full program mode, I usually shoot either AV or fully manual.
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Old 04-27-2006   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tammons
I already have 4 digital cameras including a Kodak slr, SD9, and a P+S digital, I also have 3 4x5 cameras, an 8x10 camera, a RB67, and several 35mm film cameras including a QL17 so I am not exactly hurting in any department.
Not exactly kidding around, are you?

Quote:
I am looking for a specialty camera primarily for Delta 3200 film. B+H
Just before writing this reply, my Lexio 70 arrived (all the way from Oz). It handles film speeds up to 3200, and I presume the +1.5 exposure compensation function could eke out a bit more of a push if desired. Going to score a roll of cheap n' cheerful ISO 400 color neg and take it for a spin.


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Last edited by amateriat : 04-27-2006 at 12:02.
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Old 04-27-2006   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost
look at '71/ny by moriyama for gobs of grain at even small print sizes.
Got a link ??
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Old 04-27-2006   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fgianni
If you set the TC-1 to f3.5 you could argue that it is the same as having a Program mode, since the camera automatically reduces the aperture as necessary of it can't cope with its maximum shutter speed (1/350 and not 1/500 as I incorrectly stated in a previous post.)
Waitaminute...how does the camera manage this with a Waterhouse-stop system of aperture control? Not saying it's impossible, I'm simply baffled (no pun intended).


Quote:
Personally I never felt the need for a full program mode, I usually shoot either AV or fully manual.
Certainly not necessary in a camera of this caliber, just a nice extra, IMO.


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Old 04-27-2006   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amateriat
Not exactly kidding around, are you?


Just before writing this reply, my Lexio 70 arrived (all the way from Oz). It handles film speeds up to 3200, and I presume the +1.5 exposure compensation function could eke out a bit more of a push if desired. Going to score a roll of cheap n' cheerful ISO 400 color neg and take it for a spin.
- Barrett
Well, I classify myself as a photo grub. Got to try it all and as you can see i am a bit over the top with all this stuff. Thats not even all though. i also have 2 drum scanners, only one that works, Epson 4870 and believe it or not I am eyeing the V750 for some unknown reason.
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