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Nikon going out of the film camera business
Old 01-11-2006   #1
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Nikon going out of the film camera business

I am sure the other big makers will follow. So hang onto your F3
http://www.nikon.co.uk/press_room/re...w.aspx?rid=201.
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Old 01-11-2006   #2
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i remember years ago, watching the news which was filled with stories about the last american made convertible car.

it was a sad day...

now there are many new american made convertible cars again. and we are happy again.

perhaps it will be the same for cameras.
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Old 01-11-2006   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by back alley
i remember years ago, watching the news which was filled with stories about the last american made convertible car.

it was a sad day...

now there are many new american made convertible cars again. and we are happy again.

perhaps it will be the same for cameras.
Yes, I'm waiting for the ice man to start showing up at my house again.
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Old 01-11-2006   #4
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no ice man does not negate the turn around in the auto industry...

and just you wait for the atomic pulse that shuts down all the electronic gear in the world - that ice man may returneth yeteth...
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Old 01-11-2006   #5
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This is pretty big. The more I think about it....wow, not a good sign for us 20th century types.

How fast things change. I have to go buy an FM3a now.
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Old 01-11-2006   #6
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The convertible returned because cars had become clones of themselves, all boring. People wanted some fun and a choice back in their cars, and the auto makers responded. But, what made it easy for them to bring back the convert and other choices, was the fact that the new auto plants with their fully automated assembly lines now make it possible for a car maker to break even on expenses after selling only 5,000 units of a particular model.

The public doesn't want any more film cameras, so don't hold your breath for a big return to film once these companies stop making them.
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Old 01-11-2006   #7
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Convertibles were a fashion trend that went out of style and and came back again - several times, in fact. Film cameras were superceded by digital cameras. They won't be back. Sorry.
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Old 01-11-2006   #8
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There's another thread going on this right now.

Nikon's news is not unexpected. In November I bought my wife a "demo clearance" N75 (F75 outside of North America) for a pittance. It was obvious that Nikon was "dumping" its low-end film SLRs.

My guess is that they will sell the Thailand factories where they were making the plastic-body SLRs to some off-label outfit.

The FM-10, of course, is made by Cosina. This means Nikon is only making one film SLR - the F6. But given the FM-10 and F6 lineup - it really means that Nikon is back to 1965 when the only SLRs they had were the F1 and the Nikkormat FTN.

So, the more things change....

Check out the other thread - F3's are going to be a SLR manual of choice....
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Old 01-11-2006   #9
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Hmmmmm . . . don't seem to be completely getting out of the film business:


In recognition of Nikonís commitment to professional photographers we will continue to manufacturer and sell the F6, our flagship film model, as well as a number of manual interchangeable lenses. Sales of the manual FM10 will also continue outside Europe.

As well as the F6 film body and the manual FM10 Nikon will continue to manufacturer and sell the following Interchangeable manual lenses:

Nikkor 20mm f/2.8

Nikkor 24mm f/2.8

Nikkor 28mm f/2.8

Nikkor 35mm f/1.4

Nikkor 50mm f/1.2

Nikkor 50mm f/1.4

Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8

Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8

PC Micro-Nikkor 85mm f/2.8D
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Old 01-11-2006   #10
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And this strikes you as a good sign?
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Old 01-11-2006   #11
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ah well, worse to comes to worse, i'll shoot digital!
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Old 01-11-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Sowerby
Hmmmmm . . . don't seem to be completely getting out of the film business:


In recognition of Nikonís commitment to professional photographers we will continue to manufacturer and sell the F6, our flagship film model, as well as a number of manual interchangeable lenses. Sales of the manual FM10 will also continue outside Europe.

As well as the F6 film body and the manual FM10 Nikon will continue to manufacturer and sell the following Interchangeable manual lenses:

Nikkor 20mm f/2.8

Nikkor 24mm f/2.8

Nikkor 28mm f/2.8

Nikkor 35mm f/1.4

Nikkor 50mm f/1.2

Nikkor 50mm f/1.4

Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8

Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8

PC Micro-Nikkor 85mm f/2.8D
Yes, indeed, as noted in the other thread.

As per lenses, Nikon is abandoning altogether manual zooms (anyone thinking about that darned ZF thread right now?) but "stiicking with manual primes up to 105mm (surprised they are abandoning 135mm).

They are obviously staying in the AF lens biz (primes and zooms), and given the backward compatability feature of the D-200 this makes eminent sense.

Between the lines, I read that this is a corporate restructuring/rationalization. Nikon is likely to "milk" the F6 for half a decade or so. After that - I imagine they will leave film media altogether. Then the question will be - how long will they continue to "support" the F6 servicing-wise?

My guess is that right now - they have no idea!
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Old 01-11-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by back alley
ah well, worse to comes to worse, i'll shoot digital!
I've been having trouble with my memory card - it doesn't seem to do well in D76.
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Old 01-11-2006   #14
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I think one of the big problems is ,, If you quit making film cameras why make film....
Nikon and Canon have to be the two biggest producers now ...
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Old 01-11-2006   #15
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For many years after I became serious about 35mm photography
I was a Nikon user;
I have owned Nikon Ftn, F2a, FT3, FM, FM2n, FE2 cameras,
and various Nikkor lenses.

But Nikon hasn't introduced a film body of any interest to me
in many years.
If I had stuck with Nikon, I *might* have bought an FM3a.

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Old 01-11-2006   #16
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Is this a problem? How many slrs do you intend to buy in the next 5-10 years. How many has Pentax, Minolta, Nikon, Suzuki, just checkin' to see if you're reading, and others have made in the last 10-15 years that are still fully functional. I just bought a nearly new X700, Minolta for those uninitiated to the big M, and that with my X370 will last till I die, I'm 59 as of today. So, again, how many new film cameras can we buy? As long as film is available, I won't have any problems, and I don't think most of you will either. Buck up boys, there's film to burn!!! This is to cheer you all up!
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Old 01-11-2006   #17
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I'm having a serious look at a nice F100.

Peter
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I'd prefer to die in the blast, thank you...
Old 01-11-2006   #18
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I'd prefer to die in the blast, thank you...

Will the atomic pulse take out my light meter, too?
If so, how will I use "Sunny 16" in a Nuclear Winter?

And what's the best film to document Armageddon, anyway?

"Excelsior, you fatheads!"
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Old 01-11-2006   #19
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The sky is falling!
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Old 01-11-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterc
I'm having a serious look at a nice F100.

Peter
That is a nice camera
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Old 01-11-2006   #21
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Originally Posted by Richard Black
Is this a problem? How many slrs do you intend to buy in the next 5-10 years. How many has Pentax, Minolta, Nikon, Suzuki, just checkin' to see if you're reading, and others have made in the last 10-15 years that are still fully functional. I just bought a nearly new X700, Minolta for those uninitiated to the big M, and that with my X370 will last till I die, I'm 59 as of today. So, again, how many new film cameras can we buy? As long as film is available, I won't have any problems, and I don't think most of you will either. Buck up boys, there's film to burn!!! This is to cheer you all up!
Precisely Rich,

This is NOT "bad news". It is a corporate rationalization that we all expected.

What exactly has Nikon "abandoned"?

I suggest it is the production of cheapo, plastic-bodied, mass produced SLRs using questionable AF zooms that could be "crumpled" in your hand! Quite frankly, as a Nikon-phile, I found their later series of "prosumer" SLRs to be embarrasing.

I would hazard to guess that within a few years, Nikon will abandon camera body production almost altogether!

Figure it out. Digital cameras are "commonditized disposables". Typical product cycle is under 2 years.

No one is going to spend upteen thousand dollars every two years just because it has "Nikon" on the viewfinder!

Better then to narrow your body production to one or two "high end" offerings to preserve your "lens mount" technology while concentrating on lens production. And also "milking" the latter by continuing to license it to Sigma, Cosina, Tamron etc. as well as, now, Zeiss.

This is all coming together - there is a big "shakeout" happening in the camera/lens industry. It is partly due to the continuing evolution of the digital format. But it is also driven by the fact that a big new entrant, China, will quickly move from imitative to innovative in the imaging industry as it is doing in others.
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Old 01-11-2006   #22
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worse comes to worse...i'll just look at stuff...
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Old 01-11-2006   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byuphoto
I am sure the other big makers will follow. So hang onto your F3
http://www.nikon.co.uk/press_room/re...w.aspx?rid=201.
Means if my F80 breaks I have to invest in a F6. So what ? Makes me drooling anyway since a while..........

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Old 01-11-2006   #24
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What happened to the FM3a? Talk about the sky falling and it looks like I am sticking with my 2 F's, one NIkkormat FTn and F2 which is on the way. Rationalisation is not surprising in this case.

Bill
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Old 01-11-2006   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinny McGee
That is a nice camera
I may be able to trade in my F80 on it which will greatly reduce the price too.

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Old 01-11-2006   #26
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I think, at this point in the evolution of digital, the people who want to stick with film are: A) those who have a film camera and want to keep using it, and B) those who are real traditionalists. Group A by definition isn't buying a new camera and Group B is more likely to purchase a classic used camera. So Nikon, like Leica, has discovered that its main competition is its own older cameras that won't die.

That doesn't mean there's no market for film cameras. But 45 years ago, Nikon made the decision to abandon an excellent rangefinder line, leaving that niche market to others, in favor of throwing its photo division fully into SLRs. This isn't very different.
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Old 01-11-2006   #27
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'That doesn't mean there's no market for film cameras. But 45 years ago, Nikon made the decision to abandon an excellent rangefinder line, leaving that niche market to others, in favor of throwing its photo division fully into SLRs. This isn't very different.'

deja vu all over again!
that's kinda true but i hadn't thought of it in those terms before.

but they both used film tho...

ah, digital can't be that bad eh?
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Old 01-11-2006   #28
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I'm really not surprised. Nikon and Canon are spearheading the "prosumer" and "professional" DSLR market. Canon's rumor mill had leaked as much about a year ago that they too would be abandoning film body production except for the EOS-1 line; I didn't hear people fainting over that one. I don't think people will faint over this one either, as long as they keep the F6 in production (for now).

It's not a good sign for "us", but they are in a position to do this. Kodak, on the other hand, oy --and they're a special case because of their film business. But Nikon and Canon? They have their stakes solidly on the digital turf.

Now, give me a full-sensor DSLR for under $900 and a great film rangefinder. A dream? Let's see in a year and a half...
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Old 01-11-2006   #29
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Originally Posted by gabrielma
I'm really not surprised. Nikon and Canon are spearheading the "prosumer" and "professional" DSLR market. Canon's rumor mill had leaked as much about a year ago that they too would be abandoning film body production except for the EOS-1 line; I didn't hear people fainting over that one. I don't think people will faint over this one either, as long as they keep the F6 in production (for now).

It's not a good sign for "us", but they are in a position to do this. Kodak, on the other hand, oy --and they're a special case because of their film business. But Nikon and Canon? They have their stakes solidly on the digital turf.

Now, give me a full-sensor DSLR for under $900 and a great film rangefinder. A dream? Let's see in a year and a half...
Excellent points.

The simple reality is that there is no longer a "prosumer" film SLR market for Canikon to make cameras for.

Heck, given Sony and Panasonic and their TTL imaging system s- our "traditionals" are going to be hard-pressed to even preserve even the DSLR format!

The whole world as we knew it is splitting. I expect that before long we will only use the term "photograhy" to refer to film-based picture taking. The newer alternative of digital "image processing" will be considered a fully distinct activity.

Does this mean the end of film and film cameras? I do not really think so - I think film-based picture taking (I'm being deliberately careful and simplistic with my language here) will become a high-end "enthusiast" activity.

In the past, such a development might have been a death knell. But with the web and the ability to globally develop niche activities - film photograhy will remain a viable and enjoyable activity. At least until it's adherents "disappear".

So, what are you (we) doing to bring some young folks into the "fold"?
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Old 01-11-2006   #30
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http://www.counselingforloss.com/article8.htm

1) Denial.
2) Anger.
3) Bargaining.
4) Depression.
5) Acceptance.

You'll be a lot happier when you can just accept that film and film-based cameras, are on life support with a flat-line EKG. How long will they linger? What does it matter? They patient is not going to take up their bed and walk.

Once you accept that it is over, you can relax and enjoy the best of the low prices for used (let's face it, dumped) high-end kit, experiment with films you might not otherwise have tried, and just have fun while you take the time to bring yourself up to speed with what the new digital world will offer once it gets itself sorted. Life goes on.

Personally, I find this all extremely fascinating. We're living through a major paradigm shift, the fastest technological change of all time (to date), and it is happening while we watch it. Great days to be alive.

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Old 01-11-2006   #31
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'Personally, I find this all extremely fascinating. We're living through a major paradigm shift, the fastest technological change of all time (to date), and it is happening while we watch it. Great days to be alive.'

maybe we should take a picture.
a kind of photo documentary of this change.

i'd do it myself but i'm stuck here...waiting for the ice man!

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Old 01-11-2006   #32
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i think there will no longer be any sub-professional level "cameras" at all. i had read that cellphone cameras would be up to 5 megapixels soon (if they aren't already). so a whole market segment will no longer use a camera to take their photos. it's moving to hand-held media devices that will be phones, mini computers, cameras, dvd players, and tvs. so only high-level pros will be using *any* type of camera (digital or otherwise), as the mass consumer market...and even some hobbiests, i would think...will get enough resolution out of their "all-in-one" handheld device. just my take on things.

oh...and wouldn't all the radiation from the nuclear blast fog our film?! unless it was just an EMP they let off. now that would suck! all these manual cameras that so cleverly need no electronics...and an entire world full of fogged film.
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Old 01-11-2006   #33
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Originally Posted by back alley
'Personally, I find this all extremely fascinating. We're living through a major paradigm shift, the fastest technological change of all time (to date), and it is happening while we watch it. Great days to be alive.'

maybe we should take a picture.
a kind of photo documentary of this change.

i'd do it myself but i'm stuck here...waiting for the ice man!

Joe,

Actually, we are taking a picture. This thread too, like everything else in cyberspace is just a google away from being reviewed!.

Oh, and does the iceman cometh yet?

George
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Old 01-11-2006   #34
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Originally Posted by enochRoot
i think there will no longer be any sub-professional level "cameras" at all. i had read that cellphone cameras would be up to 5 megapixels soon (if they aren't already). so a whole market segment will no longer use a camera to take their photos. it's moving to hand-held media devices that will be phones, mini computers, cameras, dvd players, and tvs. so only high-level pros will be using *any* type of camera (digital or otherwise), as the mass consumer market...and even some hobbiests, i would think...will get enough resolution out of their "all-in-one" handheld device. just my take on things.

oh...and wouldn't all the radiation from the nuclear blast fog our film?! unless it was just an EMP they let off. now that would suck! all these manual cameras that so cleverly need no electronics...and an entire world full of fogged film.

You mean you didn't bury some Kodachrome when the rest of us did?
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Old 01-11-2006   #35
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You mean you didn't bury some Kodachrome when the rest of us did?
crap...i'll get started on the lead basement this weekend! 3 day weekend, you know...
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Old 01-11-2006   #36
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Quote:
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i think there will no longer be any sub-professional level "cameras" at all. i had read that cellphone cameras would be up to 5 megapixels soon (if they aren't already). so a whole market segment will no longer use a camera to take their photos. it's moving to hand-held media devices that will be phones, mini computers, cameras, dvd players, and tvs. so only high-level pros will be using *any* type of camera (digital or otherwise), as the mass consumer market...and even some hobbiests, i would think...will get enough resolution out of their "all-in-one" handheld device. just my take on things.
You could be right, but people have been predicting the grand harmonic digital convergence since the first VCR/TV combo, and it just never seems to happen - they are always such compromises, or you end up paying a lot for features you may not care about yourself, etc. Plus, when one part breaks, it is all down for the count.

I guess it could happen, but my gut tells me no. I think there is a bigger market for cell phone cameras than I originally thought there was, so I could be wrong.

I think the various manufacturers are settling around several design niches, which Steve at Steve's Digicams seems to have a handle on.

I'm still waiting for a digicam with a non-zoom lens and an optical viewfinder - no LCD and very low shutter lag.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
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Old 01-11-2006   #37
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The real news is there are no more producers of large-format lenses in the 600mm to 1200mm range.
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Old 01-11-2006   #38
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Originally Posted by enochRoot
crap...i'll get started on the lead basement this weekend! 3 day weekend, you know...
Now your crackin'. And don't forget to put a tube-radio down there together with the rotary-dial phone! Be prepared, that someboy's motto!

Have fun, keep shooting picimages!

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Old 01-11-2006   #39
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Originally Posted by bmattock
You could be right, but people have been predicting the grand harmonic digital convergence since the first VCR/TV combo, and it just never seems to happen - they are always such compromises, or you end up paying a lot for features you may not care about yourself, etc. Plus, when one part breaks, it is all down for the count.

I guess it could happen, but my gut tells me no. I think there is a bigger market for cell phone cameras than I originally thought there was, so I could be wrong.

I think the various manufacturers are settling around several design niches, which Steve at Steve's Digicams seems to have a handle on.

I'm still waiting for a digicam with a non-zoom lens and an optical viewfinder - no LCD and very low shutter lag.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
Bill,

Great points.

Once we get loose of these damned digital imagetakers, photography can re-emerge as a true art form.

Kind of like how the artistic painters did after leaving "realism" to the photographers.

Evolving technologies create alternative uses for prior formats.

Remember, they still make canvas and oil paints and calligraphers can still buy parchment and quills!
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Old 01-11-2006   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmattock
You could be right, but people have been predicting the grand harmonic digital convergence since the first VCR/TV combo, and it just never seems to happen - they are always such compromises, or you end up paying a lot for features you may not care about yourself, etc. Plus, when one part breaks, it is all down for the count.

yes...i know what you're saying. but i fear this time it might come to pass. less and less is the burden to purchase hardware put on the consumer. corporations learned long ago that you give them the "thingy" for free, and then charge for the service. that is why cellphones are so cheap. the cellphone companies subsidise them to get the service contract. this helps w/ the whole "engineered obsolescence" thing too. that is just an operating cost for the service providers. so in that regard, people no longer have to worry about things breaking, as they'll be getting a new one next year anyhow. that is why i mention this (as someone said the market for the camera bodies is not worth it to the big producers anymore...since they are outdated so fast). so this way...as things are designed to break in a couple years anyhow...people will not worry about it. they will pick the best service, and the place that subsidizes the best phones. and naturally these would be the phones w/ the greatest resolution, the number of features, etc. i HATE this. i grew up w/ modern digital technology (born in 74)...so i am of "this generation". but i'm suffering a digital backlash, and embrace all things analog. but surprisingly enough, people like my parents are FINALLY embracing the digital. and they love all the features crammed into one thing. so do my little brothers (got one on film luckily). and quite frankly i am shocked at how many friends no longer have little P&S (or is it POS) digis for their snapshot duties. they just use their phones. really, only time will tell. but i think the cheap digital camera is going the way of the dodo. and if they do start getting 5, 6, 8, 10 megapixel imaging systems built into tiny cellphones...even the higher echelons of the consumer market would flock to these devices (as they no doubt like to have the latest and greatest phone, text messaging system, etc, etc). interesting times indeed!


Quote:
Originally Posted by copake_ham
Now your crackin'. And don't forget to put a tube-radio down there together with the rotary-dial phone! Be prepared, that someboy's motto!
hehehe...oddly enough, my other hobby is designing and building tube amps!! long live analog technology. oh...and i don't own a cd player. records only.
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Last edited by enochRoot : 01-11-2006 at 18:21. Reason: typos
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