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Chrome Shooters - Is it getting better?
Old 03-06-2006   #1
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Chrome Shooters - Is it getting better?

All,

I know that most here prefer B&W and that even amongst the color (colour) shooters - most of that minority seems to prefer prints.

But for years I've almost always shot slides for color.

I continue to do so and continue to use "mailers" both Kodak and Fuji.

Lately, I've noticed two things:

1) Kodak is now "plastic coating" the edges of its cardboard slide holders - I presume this is so that they remain rigid in scanners such as my Nikon 5000D?

2) Fuji is now shipping its slides (still all cardboard) in plastic trays rather than cardboard ones. Definitely means lessened possibility of damage in shipment!

So I think this is pretty good evidence that K and F still care about 'crhome users.
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Old 03-06-2006   #2
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My interpretation is "They are finally doing something which they should have done from the beginning to retain their dwindling amount of customers."

Fortunately, the simple solution of scrapping their slide film production line never occured to them.
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Old 03-06-2006   #3
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My local pro lab changed from teh ugly little yellow boxes that hold slides horizontal to nice black ones that hold them verticle...I am happy.
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Old 03-06-2006   #4
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Cardboard slide holders? I might have seen them once or twice 30 years ago...

Both my local lab and the pro-lab I tend to use have always put them in plastic holders and then put it in a plastic box.

/Håkan
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Old 03-06-2006   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hth
Cardboard slide holders? I might have seen them once or twice 30 years ago...

Both my local lab and the pro-lab I tend to use have always put them in plastic holders and then put it in a plastic box.

/Håkan
Oh no, this sounds like it belongs on that "censor sucks" thread!

I try to state something positive about film and we get "one upmanship"!

So, anyway, tell me, how much does a roll of chrome with developing cost in Svenska?
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Old 03-07-2006   #6
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It is easier to inscribe on cardboard holders.
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Old 03-07-2006   #7
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5 pack Elitechrome 100 15.99 Euro, 5 pack Sensia 100 14.99 Euro, both inkluding development but not framing.

I order unframed.
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Old 03-07-2006   #8
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Easy George... Myself, I've never seen cardboard mounts from a pro-lab, even when I go back through the stuff my Mom shot when I was a kid (about 20 years ago). I think Håkan was probably just surprised at the cardboard (as am I), and as he's likely not a native English speaker, perhaps it's not coming across as he intended?

Here in Germany, I can get chrome processing done locally at Foto Gregor for 2,50€ without mounts. I don't know the price with mounts, as I never have it done that way. However, with every roll of chrome film I buy, they give me a certificate for free processing... It feeds upon itself, it does!
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Old 03-07-2006   #9
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Guess it depends on which on which lab of Kodaks lab it actually gets sent to, we get plastic mounts in plastic containers from Kodak mailers. Sure is a pain to wait 2 weeks to get them back..We got used to 2 hour turnaround from a local pro lab, but they stopped E6 processing a year ago...
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Old 03-07-2006   #10
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Slides are the best bargain in film photography going, especially if you scan. You can get a roll of 36 slides processed and mounted for less than $5 US. How can you beat that? Plus, used slide projectors and trays are dirt cheap. When was the last time you viewed projected slides? If you haven't in a while or never have, try it. It's a great way to share photos with friends. A lot better than a bunch of you squinting around a computer monitor.
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Old 03-07-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick R.
Slides are the best bargain in film photography going, especially if you scan. You can get a roll of 36 slides processed and mounted for less than $5 US. How can you beat that? Plus, used slide projectors and trays are dirt cheap. When was the last time you viewed projected slides? If you haven't in a while or never have, try it. It's a great way to share photos with friends. A lot better than a bunch of you squinting around a computer monitor.

About a year or so ago I had some friends (Robin and Susan) visit from Canada who brought along some slides that Robin had took while visiting with his son and daughter-in-law in England.

He was eager to show them so I dragged out the good old Kodak slide projector for the first time in about 10 years. It took a little coaxing (including a quick reassemblege of the lens that initially came apart in my hand!) but we got it going and you absolutely spot on. Projected images far out weight staring at a monitor.

Of course now I want one of the twenty-five foot flat screen TV's hooked up to a supercomputer for displaying "images" but....

Oh, the processing I was referring to was simply using K or F "mailers" - not specialty pro processing.....
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Old 03-07-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick R.
A lot better than a bunch of you squinting around a computer monitor.

Depends, with some members of the opposite sex a sofa, an album with prints and a bottle of wine is much better
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Old 03-07-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick R.
Slides are the best bargain in film photography going, especially if you scan. You can get a roll of 36 slides processed and mounted for less than $5 US. How can you beat that? Plus, used slide projectors and trays are dirt cheap. When was the last time you viewed projected slides? If you haven't in a while or never have, try it. It's a great way to share photos with friends. A lot better than a bunch of you squinting around a computer monitor.
How do you figure? Chromes rolls costs much more than film rolls. Where are they charging only $5 for processing+Mounting?
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Old 03-07-2006   #14
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Sex, sofa, and wine gets my vote!
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Old 03-07-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ywenz
How do you figure? Chromes rolls costs much more than film rolls. Where are they charging only $5 for processing+Mounting?
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Old 03-07-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ywenz
How do you figure? Chromes rolls costs much more than film rolls. Where are they charging only $5 for processing+Mounting?
Elitechrome 100 is 16 Euros for five rolls incl. 5 2 Euro tokens for processing.
So that's 1.20 for the film and 2 Euro for processing, Fuji Senia 100 is 15 Euro per 5 pack incl. processing.

Mounting is extra, but I do it myself anyways.

The last Agfa XRG200 film was sold at a local supermarket at 2.95 for two rolls excl. processing. Kodak Gold is slightly more expensive.


And I like slides! No lab secondguessing my exposure and colourbalancing so my usualy darkskinned subjects look like zombies.

I'd nearly go as far as saying that there is only one person in the process who could mess it all up, but I have had films cut in the frames, film unitentionaly crossdeveloped .....

How's the old saying, if you think you made something idiotproof you're undestimating the inteligence of idiots.
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Old 03-07-2006   #17
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All I can say is that my local lab charges a lot more than that, and I am one of many who try to keep it going so we can continue to talk to a person when we have need to prints or other things. That's a small price you pay for localization, I guess.
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Old 03-07-2006   #18
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Nothing compares to slides. Especially since the invention of Scala also for BW. The whole experience of watching big pictures is something special. Yes, it is a hassle, but a very nice hassle.
I started with SLR in the early 80's with slides because it was the cheapest then. Very quickly I found the extra effect of light falling through instead of falling on a subject.
Just like stained-glass windows.

Now I am slowly starting to get grips on BW negative developing, to me a new field.

But slides came first!

I never have them mounted, rather not even cut. Problem is that if I order them rolled, they manage to get the film scratched; if I order them cut they cut in the wrong place.
This is a persisting problem to me.
Recently I started mounting in glass frames. Not convenient for scanning, the glass has to come off. But better for projecting.

cheers, Rob.
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Old 03-07-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socke
Depends, with some members of the opposite sex a sofa, an album with prints and a bottle of wine is much better
I'm with you on this one.

The first ten years of my "serious" camera work involved shooting mostly slide film, with the occasional black-and-white roll thrown in for variety, while thumbing my nose at color negative film, this attitude likely a hangover from my childhood Instamatic days. For the last ten years or so, after a number of years doing the "this n' that" thing with film, I've come around 180 degrees, mostly shooting color neg when I'm not shooting b/w (my ratio for color versus b/w is about 25/75). Once in a while I might shoot a particular project on slide film, usually Kodak E200. Most of the time I just switch on the light box and break out the loupe, but I do keep an Ektagraphic projector with zoom lens close at hand with a stack loader - clearly more fun for the eyes than the usual JPEG shot through a digital projector, and a hell of a lot cheaper, too. Of course, having a huge archive of slides makes having that projector more than merely handy.

(One reason why I'm not too surprised about Kodak killing off slide projector production, besides the ususal "it's the digital thing" excuse, is that, between the relatively small/narrow market for the things, is that the things almost never break, and, extra bells and whistles aside, they're virtually obsolescence-proof; given a decent lens up front, a projector can be two years old or twenty – plug in a remote clicker, find yourself a screeen or bare white wall, and you're in business. Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't stop making thhe things sooner.)

As far as the cost, and turnaround time, of processing goes, it simply depends on where you go. Most labs in NYC (read: Manhattan, downtown specifically) turn it around in about four hours or so for about $6-8 a pop; extra for a 2-hour rush, unless you're pretty tight with a given lab.

Really Tiny Side Note: about the only technical advantage I find in shooting slides is in scanning: at least with my film scanner, even with all the bells and whistles engaged Digital ICE, Grain Dissolver et al), slide scanning is considerrably faster than color neg, most likely having to do with the scanner having to deal with the orange mask during scanning, or so it's been explained to me. Since I happen to love color neg's highlight-preserving qualities, this is a relatively minor annoyance to me, but there it is.


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Old 03-07-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ywenz
How do you figure? Chromes rolls costs much more than film rolls. Where are they charging only $5 for processing+Mounting?
When I drop them off at the local Stop&Shop ( a supermarket), it's $4 dollars and change for a roll of slides. They send them out, of course. Try your local labs. There's gotta be something cheap and reliable in a city as big as Chicago.
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Old 03-07-2006   #21
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Costco charges $4.95 in the US, I think. My local pro lab (farmed out through an even more local camera store) comes to $7 unmounted.

I always shot color negative (when not shooting B&W) before, as I often had access to an RA4 machine and could do my own c-prints 24 hours a day. Nowadays it's reversal film to be viewed on a lightbox and scanned without having to pay for contact prints or (crappy) machine proofs.
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Old 03-07-2006   #22
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George, I think the situation varies with region. The nearest walk-in for me to have
E6 done is 30 miles away (we launch space shuttles here, ya know). Consequently,
I use Fuji mailers for the lab in Nevada, with an average 2 week turn around.
When Kodak had all their original regional labs going the one in Atlanta did the best
work, period. But along came mergers, acquisitions, Qualex, and it all took a big fat
dump. I won't use any Drugstore or Discount store services, partly out of principle,
but largely because I've SEEN the results.

Better? Not here.

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Old 03-07-2006   #23
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Interesting that your Fuji mailers are going to NV. Mine go to Phoenix which I figured was pretty good since that means I can shoot 'chrome when in Tucson and it just goes up I-10 for processing before being mailed to me back in NYC!

But my mailers are about a year and a half old (or at least that's when I bought them) so I wonder if they moved processing to NV (not that it's all that much further from either Tucson or NY!

Although my Kodak mailers still have the Fair Lawn, NJ address, I'm told that they actually are now processed down near Baltimore (still not THAT far away).

I always used mailers for 'chrome processing - so cannot comment on local shops or labs.
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Old 03-07-2006   #24
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George--I had a brain fart (my bad)--I was thinking of my old 3D mailers. My Fuji
mailers are, like yours, for Phoenix. Isn't it crazy they don't have the East coast
covered?

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Old 03-08-2006   #25
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I think it is getting better. I shoot mostly slides and black and white negative film. Slides are indeed something special. I have a local lab that will process them and sleeve them (uncut) for me in about 2 hours. There is a great variety of films, from super saturated to natural to tungsten, infrared, even black and white with Scala or dr5. Chromes are easier to scan than negative film, particularly because you have a reference image directly in front of you. One of the best things about them (beyond projection, which is a revelation when done correctly) is printing. I have set up a color managed workflow, and I can now scan my slide at maximum resolution on my scanner, get the color absolutely perfect, save it to a CD and get an amazing 11x16.5 printed on a Chromira print on Fuji Crystal Archive from my local lab. Since I do all the prep work, it only costs 15 dollars for an exhibition quality 11x16.5. This is more reliable, consistent and cheaper than a Cibachrome, and it has the same brilliance. Things are getting better for me because printing color used to be a crapshoot, but now by using a hybrid film/digital workflow I get the best of both worlds.
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Old 03-08-2006   #26
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It's interesting how many here get their slides developed but not mounted. I always have gotten them mounted because in the past I would view them via the projector.

But now I scan.

Hmmm...maybe I'll try getting 'chrome "D.O." from the local lab.

Is there any advantage to doing that instead of just shooting color print film with D.O. processing?

I guess I'm thinking color because I really want Spring to come!
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Old 03-08-2006   #27
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Slides are just better man...it is that simple. But the real advantage is if you have good technique and good exposures, you have the best possible image sitting there in front of you to look at. It makes it vastly easier to correct color balance when you have the way it should look right in front of you. As for developed but not mounted -- I would prefer to just mount them, but my scanner (flextight 646) can't scan mounted slides, and to take them out of the slide one by one is a pain. I can just slide them in 6 at a time if I have them unmounted...I can get full frame that way too. It also makes it easier to know what type of film it was. If I need to project them, I can just slap them in some gepe mounts.
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