Old 10-01-2012   #161
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Buying flowers at the Pike Place Market, Seattle, WA

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What lens are you using?
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Old 10-02-2012   #162
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Old 10-02-2012   #163
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What lens are you using?
50mm f/1.4 with a light yellow Heliopan filter.

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Old 10-03-2012   #164
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Much as it pains me to admit it, now that I've ditched digial and gone over completely to film, the tonality of some of these images is lovely. I wonder if it's like that straight out of the camera or after post-processing. Are there any downloadable raw files available so I can check it out? It's all academic as I've no intentions of going back to digital but I'm cursed with an inquiring mind.
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Old 10-03-2012   #165
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Much as it pains me to admit it, now that I've ditched digial and gone over completely to film, the tonality of some of these images is lovely. I wonder if it's like that straight out of the camera or after post-processing. Are there any downloadable raw files available so I can check it out? It's all academic as I've no intentions of going back to digital but I'm cursed with an inquiring mind.
There are a number of DNG's out there people can play with, Bruce. Jono Slack has posted some. There are several posted over at the LUF. And, I seem to recall Kristian posting one or two here. A quick google should find 'em for you.

That said, I'd be careful of drawing instant conclusions from a DNG you didn't create (and thus have no information on what the scene lighting and metering were). My experience is that virtually all digital images - not just from the MM - require at least a modicum of post processing. The notion that a DNG ought to be perfect out of the camera (if that's what you were thinking) is a flawed one, IMHO. Just like with film where we'll push or pull, use different developers, use different agitations, use different paper grades, dodge and burn, etc., digital likewise requires a bit of effort to realize the vision you saw before you raised the camera.

More specifically, the MM in-camera metering seems biased towards underexposure - no doubt a decision made by Leica to minimize the likelihood of blown highlights, as that is the singular pitfall that photographers using the MM must be mindful of.

I also find most well-exposed DNG images out of the MM tend to be somewhat flat. the blacks more often than not need to be brought up. And the whites oftentimes, as well.

In a nutshell, the things I'll tweak are exposure (frequently bringing up 1/3 or 1/2 a stop), setting black and white points and otherwise establishing overall image tone, then tweaking contrast a bit. For most images, that's all I do. Takes about ten seconds.
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Old 10-03-2012   #166
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There are a number of DNG's out there people can play with, Bruce. Jono Slack has posted some. There are several posted over at the LUF. And, I seem to recall Kristian posting one or two here. A quick google should find 'em for you.

That said, I'd be careful of drawing instant conclusions from a DNG you didn't create (and thus have no information on what the scene lighting and metering were). My experience is that virtually all digital images - not just from the MM - require at least a modicum of post processing. The notion that a DNG ought to be perfect out of the camera (if that's what you were thinking) is a flawed one, IMHO. Just like with film where we'll push or pull, use different developers, use different agitations, use different paper grades, dodge and burn, etc., digital likewise requires a bit of effort to realize the vision you saw before you raised the camera.

More specifically, the MM in-camera metering seems biased towards underexposure - no doubt a decision made by Leica to minimize the likelihood of blown highlights, as that is the singular pitfall that photographers using the MM must be mindful of.

I also find most well-exposed DNG images out of the MM tend to be somewhat flat. the blacks more often than not need to be brought up. And the whites oftentimes, as well.

In a nutshell, the things I'll tweak are exposure (frequently bringing up 1/3 or 1/2 a stop), setting black and white points and otherwise establishing overall image tone, then tweaking contrast a bit. For most images, that's all I do. Takes about ten seconds.
Jeff,

Thanks for this thoughtful post. I'm totally new to digital and one of those B&W film only guys who does not even scan.

Its great to hear that PP can be minimal because at heart I'm a lazy slacker. The small time requirement is great, because I tend to shoot a lot.

Could you please explain what "Tweaking exposure 1/3rd or 1/2 a stop" means in Lightroom.

Also it seems like the sensor responds a lot like film in that straight shots without contrast filters are flat in contrast. I wonder if the use of contrast filters like when I shoot film will directly translate? I wonder if my old school ways are appropriate when applied to digital?

Cal
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Old 10-03-2012   #167
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I want to see some photos from a clod operating the camera. Will someone please loan me theirs?
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Old 10-03-2012   #168
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Jeff,

Thanks for this thoughtful post. I'm totally new to digital and one of those B&W film only guys who does not even scan.

Its great to hear that PP can be minimal because at heart I'm a lazy slacker. The small time requirement is great, because I tend to shoot a lot.

Could you please explain what "Tweaking exposure 1/3rd or 1/2 a stop" means in Lightroom.

Also it seems like the sensor responds a lot like film in that straight shots without contrast filters are flat in contrast. I wonder if the use of contrast filters like when I shoot film will directly translate? I wonder if my old school ways are appropriate when applied to digital?

Cal

Cal, the exposure slider is under the 'Develop' tab of Lightroom. You can, as the name suggests, raise or lower the overall image brightness level. Doing so isn't as ideal as getting a perfectly metered shot out of camera. But since the MM has a bias towards underexposure, if you're in a hurry, or not careful, it's easy to end up with an image that is slightly too dark. Ergo, pushing that slider to the right to bring it up.

I've never used contrast filters on film (except for polarizing filters, which I suppose are a type of contrast filter). But I don't see why they wouldn't work on the MM. Pretty much any filter effect on (panchromatic-type) film is going to likewise work on the MM. Having said that, it's incredibly simple to tweak contrast in Lightroom...
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Old 10-03-2012   #169
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Cal, the exposure slider is under the 'Develop' tab of Lightroom. You can, as the name suggests, raise or lower the overall image brightness level. Doing so isn't as ideal as getting a perfectly metered shot out of camera. But since the MM has a bias towards underexposure, if you're in a hurry, or not careful, it's easy to end up with an image that is slightly too dark. Ergo, pushing that slider to the right to bring it up.

I've never used contrast filters on film (except for polarizing filters, which I suppose are a type of contrast filter). But I don't see why they wouldn't work on the MM. Pretty much any filter effect on (panchromatic-type) film is going to likewise work on the MM. Having said that, it's incredibly simple to tweak contrast in Lightroom...
Jeff thanks for the response. Congrats on your Monochrome.

I have a very steep learning curve ahead, but your post suggests I won't be too overwelmed.

Cal
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Old 10-03-2012   #170
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Hi Cal,

don't worry, you'll get there ... eventually .
Here is a slightly older video from Th. Overgaard using LR3, but it should give you a general first glimpse to what is heading your way.

http://vimeo.com/channels/lightroomsurvivalkit

It a bit lengthy here and there but it was very useful for me.
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Old 10-03-2012   #171
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Hi Cal,

don't worry, you'll get there ... eventually .
Here is a slightly older video from Th. Overgaard using LR3, but it should give you a general first glimpse to what is heading your way.

http://vimeo.com/channels/lightroomsurvivalkit

It a bit lengthy here and there but it was very useful for me.
Thanks Klaus,

Part of the fun and excitment is the waiting.

Cal
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Old 10-03-2012   #172
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Hi Cal,

with "getting there eventually", I was referring to the learning curve and not the delivery .
Therefore also the link to the LR survival kit video from Overgaard.
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Old 10-05-2012   #173
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Finally, got my MM on vacation, for the last two days. One of the first shots, side light from a window, Nocti 1.0 @ 1/125 sec ISO 320:



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Old 10-05-2012   #174
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Congrats on the new arrival, Carsten! Terrific work right out of the gate...
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Old 10-05-2012   #175
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Congrats on the new arrival, Carsten! Terrific work right out of the gate...
Thank you, Jeff :-)
BTW, almost no postprocessing from DNG with Photo Ninja.
Workflow needs getting used to, but handling of highlights, tones, and detail is at least as good as LR4 and often you get it just right out of the box without minimal changes.

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Old 10-05-2012   #176
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My Mono is now in service for stuck framelines, so no new content...
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Old 10-05-2012   #177
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We look forward to more of your inestimable work, Kristian. Do you have an ETA on getting the MM back?
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Old 10-05-2012   #178
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We look forward to more of your inestimable work, Kristian. Do you have an ETA on getting the MM back?
Was told 10-15 days and was given a M9 as a loaner. I believe I'm the first to have an issue with the Monochrom....making history I am
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Old 10-06-2012   #179
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Old 10-06-2012   #180
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M-M; 50mm f/1.4; 1/125s; ISO 320


M-M; 50mm f/1.4; 1/60s; ISO 1000


Cheers, Matt
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Old 10-08-2012   #181
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Originally Posted by M_Driscoll View Post
M-M; 50mm f/1.4; 1/125s; ISO 320
M-M; 50mm f/1.4; 1/60s; ISO 1000
Cheers, Matt
Hello Matt,

thanks for sharing. I looked at your zenfolio page. You have some great work there. I flipped through a lot of your work, esp. the 70's is special.
From the new ones, I particularly like this one :
http://mdriscoll.zenfolio.com/p49714...5054#h41627d30
bw at 6400 in this quality, just amazing.
I understand that people being used to see grain for the last 100 years and see this as a "must have", might object this example as clinical and whatever. If you look at a scene live (not "live view" ) there is no grain. So for me these shots look stunning.
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Old 10-09-2012   #182
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Old 10-09-2012   #183
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Wait, you mean this camera doesn't just make magical B&W photos without any effort? Sheesh, what is photography coming to these days!
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Old 10-09-2012   #184
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Hello Matt,

thanks for sharing. I looked at your zenfolio page. You have some great work there. I flipped through a lot of your work, esp. the 70's is special.
From the new ones, I particularly like this one :
http://mdriscoll.zenfolio.com/p49714...5054#h41627d30
bw at 6400 in this quality, just amazing.
I understand that people being used to see grain for the last 100 years and see this as a "must have", might object this example as clinical and whatever. If you look at a scene live (not "live view" ) there is no grain. So for me these shots look stunning.
Klaus: Thanks for looking! It's interesting to view those 70's shots (Nikkormat FTN, 50mm, Tri-x, developed at school, or in the bathroom sink) in comparison to what the M-M can do. I'm not interested in it's ability to look like 'film' (not that there's anything wrong with that!). It's unique in the range of expression that it allows. That's what I like.

Ps. That's my wife and she doesn't like me to photograph her. ISO 6400 makes me pretty stealthy.

Cheers, Matt
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Great pics, everyone...
Old 10-10-2012   #185
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Great pics, everyone...

Fantastic captures everyone. I don't frequent these parts as often as I should, as some of the work I have seen here is quite inspirational. Here are a few of my images with the MM:







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Old 10-10-2012   #186
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OK Ashwin, you can call in again anytime.
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Old 10-10-2012   #187
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Ashwin,

Great work, as usual. Hey, I didn't know you "did" RFF! Stay well, compadre.
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Old 10-12-2012   #188
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These are terrific. I enjoyed the processing and its good to see how people work in different ways.
But most of all I like where you stood when you pressed the button!
The last shot* demonstrates the 'ugly part' of the MM or the pp or.....:

* with the half blind ? man, sorry...

it's the OOF part at the left side of the pic - the lady with the plastic bag in her left hand.
There is some 'aura' around her which looks very nasty, but why?

The same in the pic of the man in the railway station:

In the untouched pic the right hand outer rail of the bench looks ok but in the pp-version this wooden piece becomes indifferent nasty in my eyes....

For me it seems that the MM needs a lot of partial corrections in different areas of the pic. Then it would be possible to get lost.....

For me personally there is the 7.000 € question whether the MM would be ok after 6 months when the honeymoon has ended.....

PS: from the contend the most pics are really good but some of them would look much better on film because film will be moe gentle even in harsh conditions....

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Old 10-12-2012   #189
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Fantastic captures everyone. I don't frequent these parts as often as I should, as some of the work I have seen here is quite inspirational. Here are a few of my images with the MM:
That first pic is phenomenal.
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Old 10-12-2012   #190
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Here some shots. My frist 2 hrs with the Monochrom at a Leica workshop in NYC yesterday...
Just a little tweaking in LR4. Info on ISO, lenses etc. in my gallery.









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Old 10-12-2012   #191
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Having shot so well with the M9 and now trying the MM, what do you think?
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Old 10-12-2012   #192
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My Monochrom is still in service :-(
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Old 10-13-2012   #193
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M-M; 50mm f/1.4; 1/60s; ISO 1000


Cheers, Matt
Beautiful capture, Matt
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Old 10-13-2012   #194
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Goes to show, a camera is only as good as the operator. Pictures sell cameras....wonder when manufacturers will realise this
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Old 10-13-2012   #195
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Originally Posted by M_Driscoll View Post
Klaus: Thanks for looking! It's interesting to view those 70's shots (Nikkormat FTN, 50mm, Tri-x, developed at school, or in the bathroom sink) in comparison to what the M-M can do. I'm not interested in it's ability to look like 'film' (not that there's anything wrong with that!). It's unique in the range of expression that it allows. That's what I like.

Ps. That's my wife and she doesn't like me to photograph her. ISO 6400 makes me pretty stealthy.

Cheers, Matt
Hi Matt,

Just looking at all the wonderful M-M images which also brought me to your zenfolio site. The 70's images are absolutely wonderful and exactly the type of photography I enjoy. It is a fascinating look back in time that you have documented for all generations to see. Photography like this is what makes me want to go out and take more images which will be a moment in 'this' time for the future to view. Thanks for sharing.

Cheers - John
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Old 10-13-2012   #196
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Goes to show, a camera is only as good as the operator. Pictures sell cameras....wonder when manufacturers will realise this
Hi Kristian,

the Leica instructor quoted a photographer who was giving a Lecture the evening before the event (I didn't attend that and I forgot the name) but it was along the lines " .. sorry I can talk too much about the gear but the Monochrom got me excited about B&W photography again".
The Leica guy also explicitly mentioned that is not about the gear but all about your vision.

I felt, I was the youngest guy of the group of participants in the workshop and a lot of others were obviously "babying" their gear with full leather case etc. Most of them were also renting lenses, I brought my own. They didn't blink when I put the Planar on the MM .

I am pretty positive that the perception of many users that because of the price they paid for the Leica stuff, they expect it will give them almost automatically better pictures. That misconception is not anything Leica is not aware of.

Many talented photographers are using Leica M and Leica is showcasing that. But it has nothing inheritly to do with what anyone else can do but it sure creates a halo effect. What some race care driver can to in a certain car is different from Joe Average on the highway, same thing.
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Old 10-13-2012   #197
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Having shot so well with the M9 and now trying the MM, what do you think?
Hi Richard,
thanks "for the flowers". I'm just doing it for fun and trying to learn. I have the M9 just 5 month and it is terrific (for me) as I have at least somewhat the feeling that I am more in control of the end result than when dropping a film off at some lab and getting some prints back a week later. Ok the software is doing so much that I do not control but in my book going digital is much more satisfying and does give me a higher yield of great shots. To be able to adjust ISO as needed and not be stuck with one roll of 100 ISO film when I'm suddenly in the subway, that is such a great advantage. And as I am only using Leica M there was just no alternative (again in my book).

Getting to the Monochrom now ... the final kick was looking at these files at home. After just 2 hrs shooting and definately not being able to nail the exposure - these files are looking just terrific.
All the stuff that was shown at the Leica workshop (with laptop hooked to a projector) M9 vs MM was showing some differences in roof edges of a house and less grain in shadow details with the MM. But to me that wasn't so convincing at all. A quote from the instructor ["most likely you will not see a difference in a 11x14" print"].

I also now understand their claim the MM is 100% better than the M9. You can view the M9 files at 100%, after that they become pixelated. However the MM files at 200% still look perfect. I am not sure if until now just me was not getting the point of this claim but obviously this is confusing also to many others.

The high ISO capability is great but I am not sure how difficult it will be to shoot wide open at the lowest (non pull) ISO of 320. I assume any ND filter you might have to use will degrade the quality somewhat. I have no experience with ND filter yet. If you nail the exposure ISO 6400 will still give you amazing results when you comepare it e.g. to pushed TMY at 800. I did not use ISO 10,000 as was already more into using the Monochrom then testing it...

When I was using my M3 loaded with bw film I was looking for different subjects, "seeing differently" than with the MP loaded with Provia. The Monochrom gives you exactely that difference. And shooting the M9 and converting some files to bw occasionally will not get you there, if you want this "seeing in black and white" feeling, maybe you can relate to that.

Using color filters on the Monochrom will per intructor give you similar effects as shooting bw film.
Post production use of software filters makes only sense in color file. How could the software possibly detect green shades in a grey scale picture (all 3 RGB channels of the pixel have the same value) This would not make any sense to me.
But I did not play around with any filters during the 2hrs shooting the MM and I also did not shoot the same scene with the M9 in parallel.

Bottom line: I put an order in.
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Old 10-13-2012   #198
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Some more from the 2hrs with the loaner Monochrom last Friday :



and a crop :




and a crop :



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Old 10-14-2012   #199
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Originally Posted by icebear View Post
Hi Richard,
thanks "for the flowers". I'm just doing it for fun and trying to learn. I have the M9 just 5 month and it is terrific (for me) as I have at least somewhat the feeling that I am more in control of the end result than when dropping a film off at some lab and getting some prints back a week later. Ok the software is doing so much that I do not control but in my book going digital is much more satisfying and does give me a higher yield of great shots. To be able to adjust ISO as needed and not be stuck with one roll of 100 ISO film when I'm suddenly in the subway, that is such a great advantage. And as I am only using Leica M there was just no alternative (again in my book).

Getting to the Monochrom now ... the final kick was looking at these files at home. After just 2 hrs shooting and definately not being able to nail the exposure - these files are looking just terrific.
All the stuff that was shown at the Leica workshop (with laptop hooked to a projector) M9 vs MM was showing some differences in roof edges of a house and less grain in shadow details with the MM. But to me that wasn't so convincing at all. A quote from the instructor ["most likely you will not see a difference in a 11x14" print"].

I also now understand their claim the MM is 100% better than the M9. You can view the M9 files at 100%, after that they become pixelated. However the MM files at 200% still look perfect. I am not sure if until now just me was not getting the point of this claim but obviously this is confusing also to many others.

The high ISO capability is great but I am not sure how difficult it will be to shoot wide open at the lowest (non pull) ISO of 320. I assume any ND filter you might have to use will degrade the quality somewhat. I have no experience with ND filter yet. If you nail the exposure ISO 6400 will still give you amazing results when you comepare it e.g. to pushed TMY at 800. I did not use ISO 10,000 as was already more into using the Monochrom then testing it...

When I was using my M3 loaded with bw film I was looking for different subjects, "seeing differently" than with the MP loaded with Provia. The Monochrom gives you exactely that difference. And shooting the M9 and converting some files to bw occasionally will not get you there, if you want this "seeing in black and white" feeling, maybe you can relate to that.

Using color filters on the Monochrom will per intructor give you similar effects as shooting bw film.
Post production use of software filters makes only sense in color file. How could the software possibly detect green shades in a grey scale picture (all 3 RGB channels of the pixel have the same value) This would not make any sense to me.
But I did not play around with any filters during the 2hrs shooting the MM and I also did not shoot the same scene with the M9 in parallel.

Bottom line: I put an order in.
It's a great review. Interesting that the best case for the MM is being made right here on RFF. I will have to sit with my M9 for a while yet. If they bring out a Monochrom-P in chrome I will probably cave in then. I am getting more and more out of the M9, but I agree with your thoughts above on shooting black and white.
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Old 10-14-2012   #200
leicashot
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My Monochrom is still being repaired for the faulty frameline selector. After inspecting the files from this M9 and now having used the Monochrom and Nikon D800E, the M9 now looks quite soft in comparison. I guess after using the D800E with Zeiss lenses, the Monochrom looked kinda standard, but now I'm confident the Monochrom resolves at least 25% more detail at low ISO and that only increases as you go above ISO 400+

Now I truly do appreciate just how much detail the Monochrom resolves.

Last edited by Doug : 03-01-2013 at 18:34. Reason: Pic set to "Private" on Flickr
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