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Old 07-07-2018   #41
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We are now categorizing individuals based on their sartorial choices?
Yes. Always.
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Old 07-07-2018   #42
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Nick--it's clear to me you have several thousand D600s with 50/1.1AF-Ds on hand. I'll take one for 250.00 plus shipping. Thanks! Let me know---
Paul
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Old 07-07-2018   #43
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...more than enough and relevant for some time to come, and bumps up against the top-of-the-line D810 rated at 97.

https://kenrockwell.com/nikon/d600.htm
But of course we all know the D850 has a 100 score.
Just like the Leica M10.
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Old 07-07-2018   #44
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Back to reality, or a version of it.


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Old 07-07-2018   #45
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But of course we all know the D850 has a 100 score.
Just like the Leica M10.
https://www.dxomark.com/leica-m10-classic-reinvented/

Leica M10 -- DXO Score 86(!). Price body new -- $7,295 at B&H.
Nikon D850 -- DXO Score 100 Price body new -- $3,296 (Amazon) Used: $3,198 (Amazon)
Nikon D750 -- DXO Score 93 Price body new -- $1,696 (B&H) Used: $1,159 (B&H)
Nikon D600 -- DXO Score 94 body new -- NA out of production. Used, excellent + condtion $709 (Adorama)

All prices current as of 5 mins ago, feel free to verify. The cost of an excellent+ condition full frame D600, with a sensor that scores 9.3% higher than the Leica M10 (and only 6% below their highest-rated FF sensors) in independent lab testing in dynamic range, bit depth, high ISO performance etc. is 1/10th the price. (About 1/2 the cost of your average crummy new digital Kodak Advantix F600 APS-C camera...)

I am showing you the way. Resistance is futile.

"While the M10’s overall score and sub-scores are good, they fall behind the best full-frame image quality we’ve found with the Sony A7R III and the Nikon D850.[...]In fact, the Leica M10’s sensor scores are more on par with the best APS-C chips we’ve tested..."
https://www.dxomark.com/leica-m10-classic-reinvented/
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Old 07-07-2018   #46
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Obviously informations for people who care about DXOsth.
Sounds like a religion or cult to me
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Old 07-07-2018   #47
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Nick--it's clear to me you have several thousand D600s with 50/1.1AF-Ds on hand. I'll take one for 250.00 plus shipping. Thanks! Let me know---
Paul

Perhaps the several thousand he owns are stored aloft in UFOs


But I still like my D600 =)
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Old 07-07-2018   #48
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Huh? ... ...
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Old 07-07-2018   #49
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dmr--best question yet!!
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Old 07-07-2018   #50
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Obviously informations for people who care about DXOsth.
Sounds like a religion or cult to me
Neither a religion, nor a cult. A resource -- an independent lab that scientifically tests sensors with sophisticated equipment for a living and publishes their results to the sometimes surprise, embarrassment, and chagrin of those who actually are in a (whatever brand) cult When those in the "whatever brand cult" don't like the results, confirmation bias sets in resulting in all manner of impolite language and scurrilous accusations directed towards those doing the testing whose results they no like-y. Most amusing -- and predictable. But certainly forgivable -- all part of the human condition underwhich we all exist.

... except the aliens that walk amongst us.
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Old 07-07-2018   #51
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Luckily most of humans are not (yet) equipped with AI, so choices are consequently a little more varied
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Old 07-07-2018   #52
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... -- an independent lab that scientifically tests sensors with sophisticated equipment for a living ...

Well, I can't judge who pays their bills but I know with 100% certainty that I don't take any photos in a lab.
And I move my camera around and it's not mounted on a test bench either ... I have to admit, I do use a tripod occasionally
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Old 07-07-2018   #53
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Neither a religion, nor a cult. A resource -- an independent lab that scientifically tests sensors with sophisticated equipment for a living and publishes their results to the sometimes surprise, embarrassment, and chagrin of those who actually are in a (whatever brand) cult When those in the "whatever brand cult" don't like the results, confirmation bias sets in resulting in all manner of impolite language and scurrilous accusations directed towards those doing the testing whose results they no like-y. Most amusing -- and predictable. But certainly forgivable -- all part of the human condition underwhich we all exist.

... except the aliens that walk amongst us.
I'm not sure any cult out there would take in a guy like me. I've been rejected by the best.
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Old 07-07-2018   #54
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https://www.dxomark.com/leica-m10-classic-reinvented/

Leica M10 -- DXO Score 86(!). Price body new -- $7,295 at B&H.
Nikon D850 -- DXO Score 100 Price body new -- $3,296 (Amazon) Used: $3,198 (Amazon)
Nikon D750 -- DXO Score 93 Price body new -- $1,696 (B&H) Used: $1,159 (B&H)
Nikon D600 -- DXO Score 94 body new -- NA out of production. Used, excellent + condtion $709 (Adorama)
Can you refresh our memory? Was the D600 the disaster for Nikon that had more shutter oil leaks than the Exxon Valdez?
That was the model that had Nikon say 'frak it, let's just release the 610 and hope no-one ever mentions it again'

That shutter oil splashed onto the sensor, which resulted in weird artifacts in images. Some used this as proof of alien existence.
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Old 07-07-2018   #55
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I'm not sure any cult out there would take in a guy like me. I've been rejected by the best.
Anyone can be rejected by the best. It's once you've been rejected by the bottom feeders, the flounders of cults if you will, that you know you're special.
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Old 07-07-2018   #56
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"While the M10ís overall score and sub-scores are good, they fall behind the best full-frame image quality weíve found with the Sony A7R III and the Nikon D850.[...]In fact, the Leica M10ís sensor scores are more on par with the best APS-C chips weíve tested..."
https://www.dxomark.com/leica-m10-classic-reinvented/
I always knew a Sony A6000 was just a rebadged M240.
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Old 07-07-2018   #57
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Neither a religion, nor a cult. A resource -- an independent lab that scientifically tests sensors with sophisticated equipment ... all part of the human condition underwhich we all exist...
For me reading reviews and reciting their conclusions as relevant facts simply reflects a small horizont.
A contrivance for people not photographing active, arenīt able to reflect their own photography and that are driven to buy a camera.
GAS people.

GAS is a complete different activity from photographing. So there is and never will be a guilty relation.

When you buy a camera with an xy rating you only get what you buy.
There will be not one simple picture that is taken with this gear that has a unique feature until - and this is the point -
you succeed to constrain peoples view to the conclusion of reviewers
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Old 07-07-2018   #58
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Bah, "full frame" begins at 6x4.5.
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Old 07-07-2018   #59
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I stopped reading after Point 1.
Not sure if this is a troll. but...
Film cameras do make you a better photographer.
Mary Ellen Mark and Elliot Erwitt agreed as well.
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Old 07-07-2018   #60
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this thread should be moved to the "dogma" section
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Old 07-07-2018   #61
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this thread should be moved to the "dogma" section
Ha, yeah.

I'm currently working with a new FF 40 MP Dogmatic 4000D. "It solves all of your image problems, all of the time." TM

Hope you're well emraphoto, pkr
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Old 07-07-2018   #62
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Huh? ... ...
Exactly, but to add to the confusion, did you know that Raggedy Ann and Pinocchio got married.....?
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escalating...
Old 07-07-2018   #63
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escalating...

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Originally Posted by FujiLove View Post
Is this an ironic thread or a p*ssing contest?

If it's the latter, my Mamiya 6 gives me an effective 100MP. My Mamiya 7 was more like 150MP.

Do I win? (until the 8x10 guys arrive)
Medium format FTW, but obviously the Rolleiflex T is superior.
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Old 07-07-2018   #64
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2. Small format film? No. Shoot it for fun. But it's obsolete. (Medium and large format film is still fine, however.)
Go on Nick, tell us what's so obsolete about small format film?
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Old 07-07-2018   #65
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I like these types of threads ... you can start at the latest post and work your way backwards to the beginning or you can start at the first post and work your way through to the end.

Like a palindrome they are are the same either way ... take your pick!
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Old 07-08-2018   #66
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Go on Nick, tell us what's so obsolete about small format film?
Oh c'mon. I was the biggest film advocate out there, insisted on shooting it and defended it as "superior" well into the digital era. That was me. Had film cameras -- mostly rangefinders, in every corner of my man-cave. Rolled my own on spent cartridges given to from the (closed -- now a bird feeder store) camera shop down the street. Am no strager to Jobo tanks, D76, and Dektol. Was the "hipster" guy shootig a giant Yashica GSN (every so often an old guy stopping me saying, "I had one of those!") at events when everyone else was clicking their digital point-n-shoots (now also obsolete) or cell phones. Do note, I have nearly 3,000 posts on this forum.

However, it's obviously obsolete. I'll save that rant possibly for another day. However, there is a reason why Kodak is in the sorry shape it's in, and why very few new film cameras are still made. Why -- despite living in a suburb of a major city with a population larger than many US states, I now have to mail out rolls of color prints when I could walk 1/4-1/2 mile in any direction and have film processed and color prints made not s' long ago. Why it's disappeared from the shelves and I have to order film online. Why very few pro's still use it. Why not really that young people -- not kids, may have never even seen an actual film camera in their lives.

There is such a thing as "wisdom of the crowd".

I stll keep a few cameras around -- let's see I have a Nikon AF L35, Pentax PC35 AF, an Olympus XA, and a Fujica Compact Deluxe and have some rolls in the fridge. (Do note -- these are small cameras except for the Fuji. If there's one advantage small format still has it's "full frame in your pocket".) I get it. But let's get real.
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Old 07-08-2018   #67
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YES! FF all the way baby!



Oh wait... oops. This one is from my APS sensor point and shoot camera. Handheld.
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Old 07-08-2018   #68
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Iím a minimalist regarding equipment I use when making photographs.

For me, it gets too complicated having a bunch at hand to use just in case.

Give me a camera, one maybe two lenses and a reflector, thatís it.
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Old 07-08-2018   #69
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Wait! Hold on a minute.

I fully accept that I'm wrong about everything. Just ask my wife, she'll tell you that. And she's never wrong about anything. She'll tell you that too.

But...who is this DXOwhatever? And why should I care how they rate something? Does this infinite entity have access to my innermost desires, needs and personal prejudices so it can thus determine with absolute perfection what I absolutely must have? Neat trick, that.

'Scuse me but I'll just pass on believing camera ratings scores as meaning much of anything anymore.

Unless my wife takes up rating cameras, that is.
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Old 07-08-2018   #70
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Still don't like the look of digital B&W as much as film.
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Old 07-08-2018   #71
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I like these types of threads ... you can start at the latest post and work your way backwards to the beginning or you can start at the first post and work your way through to the end.

Like a palindrome they are are the same either way ... take your pick!
Yes.
In the end, you do what you like doing anyways. We have here a variety of opinions.
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Old 07-08-2018   #72
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Wait! Hold on a minute.

I fully accept that I'm wrong about everything. Just ask my wife, she'll tell you that. And she's never wrong about anything. She'll tell you that too.

But...who is this DXOwhatever? And why should I care how they rate something?
DXOmark is a resource and is a much hated software manufacturer (hated because their evaluations and scores don't always "align" with gear you may own...) that makes DXO Optics Pro, a leading RAW image converter. They scientifically test camera sensors and lenses of all manufacturers in a lab and publish their results. If you want to see how your gear measures up? -- at least technically? It's worth taking a look at. If you don't? Don't bother.

I always give it a peek. Sure. Why not? It's better than some subjective opinion on YouTube or blogs. I've shied away from a few purchases based on their evaluations.
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Old 07-08-2018   #73
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I have this weird way of choosing my gear.
1. Does it take photos that I like? Yes or no
2. Do I enjoy using the camera or lens? Yes or no

If the answer is yes to both, I tend to carry and use it. End result, I take more photos.

That’s it. Pretty simple. Then again I’m not a pro, nor do I enlarge to monstrous sizes.
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Old 07-08-2018   #74
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Originally Posted by Ccoppola82 View Post
I have this weird way of choosing my gear.
1. Does it take photos that I like? Yes or no
2. Do I enjoy using the camera or lens? Yes or no

If the answer is yes to both, I tend to carry and use it. End result, I take more photos.

Thatís it. Pretty simple. Then again Iím not a pro, nor do I enlarge to monstrous sizes.
I like this truth.
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Old 07-08-2018   #75
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I have used film photography and B&W film developing and scanning (and some printing) in the past. I have been mainly using digital cameras in the past few years. What makes me go to digital is not perceived quality in the end result. It is time savings. I am very busy at work doing extra time research, and this leaves me little time for film. I just take my M8 and M9 whenever I happen to have little time for taking photos. Then I don't want to worry about where to have the film developed and scanned.

This is basically how I see it in my case. I still value film photography, and this is why I bought the SWC after I bought the M9. I wanted to make sure that I stayed anchored to film too.
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Old 07-08-2018   #76
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Originally Posted by NickTrop View Post
DXOmark is a resource and is a much hated software manufacturer (hated because their evaluations and scores don't always "align" with gear you may own...) that makes DXO Optics Pro, a leading RAW image converter. They scientifically test camera sensors and lenses of all manufacturers in a lab and publish their results. If you want to see how your gear measures up? -- at least technically? It's worth taking a look at. If you don't? Don't bother.

I always give it a peek. Sure. Why not? It's better than some subjective opinion on YouTube or blogs. I've shied away from a few purchases based on their evaluations.
Who owns DXO Mark ?

"DxO Labs is no longer the same company as DxO Mark — DxO Mark became an independent company in the fall of 2017. "

https://www.digitaltrends.com/photog...eport-suggest/

I remember them having trouble testing non Bayer configured sensors (X-Trans) ?

Edit / found this:

Why DxOMark Doesn’t Test Fujifilm Cameras
https://petapixel.com/2016/01/26/why...ifilm-cameras/
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Old 07-08-2018   #77
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I like these types of threads ... you can start at the latest post and work your way backwards to the beginning or you can start at the first post and work your way through to the end.

Like a palindrome they are are the same either way ... take your pick!
Fantastic observation Keith!
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Old 07-08-2018   #78
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Ha, yeah.

I'm currently working with a new FF 40 MP Dogmatic 4000D. "It solves all of your image problems, all of the time." TM

Hope you're well emraphoto, pkr
I am well. Alive is a great condition to suffer

All this camera and megapixel talk seems akin to the ponies before the cart to me.
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Old 07-08-2018   #79
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I have used film photography and B&W film developing and scanning (and some printing) in the past. I have been mainly using digital cameras in the past few years. What makes me go to digital is not perceived quality in the end result. It is time savings. I am very busy at work doing extra time research, and this leaves me little time for film. I just take my M8 and M9 whenever I happen to have little time for taking photos. Then I don't want to worry about where to have the film developed and scanned.

This is basically how I see it in my case. I still value film photography, and this is why I bought the SWC after I bought the M9. I wanted to make sure that I stayed anchored to film too.
So if i understand this right... Horses for courses yeah?
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Old 07-08-2018   #80
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Originally Posted by Ccoppola82 View Post
I have this weird way of choosing my gear.
1. Does it take photos that I like? Yes or no
2. Do I enjoy using the camera or lens? Yes or no

If the answer is yes to both, I tend to carry and use it. End result, I take more photos.

Thatís it. Pretty simple. Then again Iím not a pro, nor do I enlarge to monstrous sizes.
Now here is sound logic.

I add 3. Does it fit in my pocket?

All sorted
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