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Hardware / Computers / Drives / etc This is the place to discuss the hardware to keep your digital pics more than just memories.

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Old 06-25-2019   #41
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I will check it out, David. Thank you. Some people have cautioned me not to connect ever the M8 to the computer.
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Old 06-25-2019   #42
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Quote:
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Isn't it a special Leica cord?
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I'd like to answer that but have broken a finger nail trying to open the cover on the M9 and look at the socket. My guess is that it's a normal USB socket but you never know.
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I will check it out, David. Thank you. Some people have cautioned me not to connect ever the M8 to the computer.
The M8 port is the same as the M9 port. The cable is one of the two "mini USB" type B connectors (there's a rounded one and a squarish one, the gods only know why...!) to standard USB type A connector, IIRC (I may be off on the type B and type A designations, but it's just a standard cable...). I can't imagine why you should 'never connect the M8 to the computer' ...?

I only ever connected my M9 to my computer once. It worked just fine.

I'm glad you've gotten your files off the SD card. One possibility is that flipping the lock switch a couple of times might have been what made it work finally, if you did that. This just came to mind: I've had a couple of USB cards where a slight touch of the write lock switch would put it into an intermediate position and then the camera didn't know what the card was. Taking the card out and flipping the switch full off, putting it back in, pulling it out again and turning the switch full on restored the camera's ability to see the card.

Get all the files off the card, reformat it with the "SD Card Formatter" utility app, and then go forward with it.

G
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Old 06-25-2019   #43
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Interesting, I have never experienced this issue using film.
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Old 06-25-2019   #44
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With my digital Canon DSLR cameras I use a card for each camera. Switching caused problems for me.

Thought I’d share with you.
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Old 06-25-2019   #45
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The M8 port is the same as the M9 port. The cable is one of the two "mini USB" type B connectors (there's a rounded one and a squarish one, the gods only know why...!) to standard USB type A connector, IIRC (I may be off on the type B and type A designations, but it's just a standard cable...). I can't imagine why you should 'never connect the M8 to the computer' ...?

I only ever connected my M9 to my computer once. It worked just fine.

I'm glad you've gotten your files off the SD card. One possibility is that flipping the lock switch a couple of times might have been what made it work finally, if you did that. This just came to mind: I've had a couple of USB cards where a slight touch of the write lock switch would put it into an intermediate position and then the camera didn't know what the card was. Taking the card out and flipping the switch full off, putting it back in, pulling it out again and turning the switch full on restored the camera's ability to see the card.

Get all the files off the card, reformat it with the "SD Card Formatter" utility app, and then go forward with it.

G
I have gotten the images to an external drive, and I will next format the card. I use specific cards in the M9 and other cards in the M8. I did actually flip the lock switch a couple of times!!
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Old 06-25-2019   #46
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With my digital Canon DSLR cameras I use a card for each camera. Switching caused problems for me.

Thought Id share with you.
I read about such an issue, and I have been keeping cards separated for M8 and M9. Same goes for batteries.
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Old 06-25-2019   #47
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Interesting, I have never experienced this issue using film.
Well, a film camera does not need an SD card!
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Old 06-25-2019   #48
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I have gotten the images to an external drive, and I will next format the card. I use specific cards in the M9 and other cards in the M8. I did actually flip the lock switch a couple of times!!
How big it is? How much will it cost to purchase a new one?


Format it and TRASH IT!

Just a thought from the cheap seats.

Very happy to hear you've gotten the picture recovered.

B2 (;->
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Old 06-25-2019   #49
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I'm with Bill. Glad you got it sorted.

Toss the card and get a new one. I never trust a card again after something like that. Not with anything I care about anyway. New high-speed, high endurance cards are cheap as chips these days, especially compared to what we used to pay. ~$25-30 for high-quality cards.
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Old 06-25-2019   #50
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WOW! I guess, I could just throw way this card. I filled it up with images to the top. Wasn't it my fault? It is a 16 GB card. It can be replaced. No big deal.
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Old 06-25-2019   #51
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...I'm glad you've gotten your files off the SD card. One possibility is that flipping the lock switch a couple of times might have been what made it work finally, if you did that. This just came to mind: I've had a couple of USB cards where a slight touch of the write lock switch would put it into an intermediate position and then the camera didn't know what the card was. Taking the card out and flipping the switch full off, putting it back in, pulling it out again and turning the switch full on restored the camera's ability to see the card.

Get all the files off the card, reformat it with the "SD Card Formatter" utility app, and then go forward with it.

G

Interesting, my first reaction was that it would probably fire up after being put in and out of card slots a few times; hence my comment about waiting a day in my first post. Experience tells me that a slight "high resistance" can be behind a lot of transient computer problems. I can remember in the late 40's and early 50's that TV's etc were often cured of faults with a fine brass wire brush used on valve pins. Nothing has changed. ;-) But as it was reacting differently in the M8 and M9 I wondered if it was the socket; we will never know...


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Old 06-25-2019   #52
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Well, a film camera does not need an SD card!

Minolta 7000i (film) takes a card like the SD's...


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Old 06-25-2019   #53
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I stand corrected! My error.
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Old 06-25-2019   #54
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Quote:
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....Wasn't it my fault?.....
I haven't gone through what you did to restore access to your picture, but frankly, it's not worth the chance of you not being at fault.

This hasn't happened before so my finger is pointed to something about the card. SD cards come in many different qualities and with the way you LOVE photography, I'd recommend you get a good quality/name brand cards. Not that I have a clue as to what good vs cheap are.

Even if the card in question is from a great manufacturer, get a different one. It's a cost vs. time to track down the root cause sort of thing. You might think of an SD card like the film base.

B2 (;->
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Old 06-25-2019   #55
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It's a great pity we have to buy such huge cards; meaning we damage or lose a lot of pictures when they fail. And by "a lot" I mean about 4,500 to judge by a 16GB card in my LX5.


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Old 06-25-2019   #56
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It's a great pity we have to buy such huge cards; meaning we damage or lose a lot of pictures when they fail. And by "a lot" I mean about 4,500 to judge by a 16GB card in my LX5.
I never worry about such things. I use 128G SD cards in my cameras nowadays, mostly. There are often 2000 to 2500 raw files (each raw file is about 45megabytes) on them. None of my cards has ever failed. I tend to read out the most recent shooting session immediately and copy the file over to my original image library, so if I card dies I'm only out the photos that were made since my last shooting session. Not a big deal ... I rarely shoot more than 20 exposures in a shooting session.

I hated it when I had only small storage cards. Had to carry a handful of them all the time, and come up with clever ways to note which were used and which weren't, etc. Similarly, I've never been careful to keep a particular card dedicated to a particular camera ... I just format a card with SD Card Formatter first, and then use it. Never had a problem.

Perhaps I'm lucky. But I won't waste energy worrying about stuff that, in my experience, makes no difference at all.

G
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Old 06-26-2019   #57
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I think the key is the word "lucky" as I've had two fail; one brand new (used for a holiday) and one not so new. I've also lost one, dropped somewhere and never found.


By the way, I put the cards in those little plastic cases with a piece of paper that's folded in two to give four pages. Three pages have a message, viz "Full", "Ready to Use" and "Format" and whatever is needed to remind me faces outwards with the media card behind it.


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Old 06-26-2019   #58
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It's a great pity we have to buy such huge cards; meaning we damage or lose a lot of pictures when they fail. And by "a lot" I mean about 4,500 to judge by a 16GB card in my LX5.


Regards, David
Don't leave them on the card. "Develop" your shots after taking them.

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Old 06-26-2019   #59
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Interesting, I have never experienced this issue using film.
True.

But then I've never had scratches, dust, bad processing, water marks, QC guy cutting into my image, light leaks, frame overlap, curling, sprockets tearing or failure to advance with my SD cards.

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Old 06-26-2019   #60
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Here's my experience with this.

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I rescued one once. The Mac couldn't see it. The PC laptop running Windows XP could see the card but not the contents. I reformatted the card - FAT32 I think. The Mac could then see it and SanDisk Rescue Pro retrieved nearly all of the images.

I know I had one instance of the PC being the winner, but here's an old thread where the Mac rescued the situation. Read down the block capitals RECOVERY OF IMAGES post.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru.../t-117806.html
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Old 06-26-2019   #61
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Info to help:

(Maybe you know all of this already. But just maybe, not)

#6 I format each time I use my camera. After each event/session I dump the files to an external hard drive. When the card goes back into the camera it is formatted.

https://digital-photography-school.c...-memory-cards/
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Old 06-26-2019   #62
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Don't leave them on the card. "Develop" your shots after taking them.

Shawn
I usually transfer all images to an external drive after each outing even if the card has plenty of storage room left on it. Just to be on the safe side.
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Old 06-26-2019   #63
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Info to help:

(Maybe you know all of this already. But just maybe, not)

#6 I format each time I use my camera. After each event/session I dump the files to an external hard drive. When the card goes back into the camera it is formatted.

https://digital-photography-school.c...-memory-cards/
This is exactly what I have been doing.
In my case, the "event" lasted for 3 weeks. This made things more complicated.
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Old 06-26-2019   #64
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What is the most heavily touched block of information on a FAT file system? The File Allocation Table. When you do a quick format of a FAT file system, it's the File Allocation Table alone that is re-written; that's why you can still recover data from the volume.

The File Allocation Table (FAT) is always written in the same logical location; it has to be. So on a flash media device, the part of the device that is most heavily used and written to is the part that contains the FAT. If you always reformat the card after every use, you are adding yet another read, erase, write cycle to the FAT block.

What causes a flash media device to "wear out"? The number of write cycles to the various physical locations on the device. The usual number of write cycles before a location becomes unusable (aka unreadable) is in the hundreds of thousands ... far more than most uses ever require for the practical use life of the devices thus far since most flash storage devices are replaced in favor of larger/faster/newer design one long before location "wear" has had an impact.

But formatting a flash media device every time it is used is just adding to the normal, expected use model. It is possible that you are increasing the probability of failure by reformatting every time since you are exercising write cycles to the most used portion of the device every time you format it.

Some file system software can relocate the FAT block when it is formatting the device, but most does not. I believe the SDFormatter app does since it analyzes the card and optimizes the creation of its file system, and the SD card format protocol includes a table of write counts and locations external to the file system. Most in-camera formatting is not so sophisticated.

I format cards for all my cameras periodically with SDFormatter. If I need space on a card that's getting too full, I erase (not format) already archived files that are on it. File by file erasure writes far fewer locations in the FAT block than formatting.

My Leica M-D does not even include in-camera deletion options, never mind formatting. I format the card I'm going to use in the M-D with SDFormatter and use it until it's full. I've not once had a single card error in the M-D, and it's been used with the same card since I bought it and has been "filled" several times with over 2000 image files.

Just saying.

G
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Old 06-26-2019   #65
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Isn't it a special Leica cord?
Raid, it's a standard usb connection, nothing special to Leica. The Camera end is somewhat trapezoidal in shape, you can get them on Amazon or probably your local camera or computer store.
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Old 06-26-2019   #66
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What is the most heavily touched block of information on a FAT file system? The File Allocation Table. When you do a quick format of a FAT file system, it's the File Allocation Table alone that is re-written; that's why you can still recover data from the volume.

The File Allocation Table (FAT) is always written in the same logical location; it has to be. So on a flash media device, the part of the device that is most heavily used and written to is the part that contains the FAT. If you always reformat the card after every use, you are adding yet another read, erase, write cycle to the FAT block.

What causes a flash media device to "wear out"? The number of write cycles to the various physical locations on the device. The usual number of write cycles before a location becomes unusable (aka unreadable) is in the hundreds of thousands ... far more than most uses ever require for the practical use life of the devices thus far since most flash storage devices are replaced in favor of larger/faster/newer design one long before location "wear" has had an impact.

But formatting a flash media device every time it is used is just adding to the normal, expected use model. It is possible that you are increasing the probability of failure by reformatting every time since you are exercising write cycles to the most used portion of the device every time you format it.

Some file system software can relocate the FAT block when it is formatting the device, but most does not. I believe the SDFormatter app does since it analyzes the card and optimizes the creation of its file system, and the SD card format protocol includes a table of write counts and locations external to the file system. Most in-camera formatting is not so sophisticated.

I format cards for all my cameras periodically with SDFormatter. If I need space on a card that's getting too full, I erase (not format) already archived files that are on it. File by file erasure writes far fewer locations in the FAT block than formatting.
The FAT doesn't have to be written to the same hardware place all the time, just the same logical place. That is what wear leveling is about, if the card supports that. If it is actual FAT than the table is also duplicated for redundancy.

I'd argue that formatting doesn't really make any difference than simply deleting files does. The FAT table has to record the location of every segment of a file. If you delete (instead of format) you are still writing to the fat to remove old file location entries. If you are using exFat then it also is updating the free space map.

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Old 06-26-2019   #67
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True.

But then I've never had scratches, dust, bad processing, water marks, QC guy cutting into my image, light leaks, frame overlap, curling, sprockets tearing or failure to advance with my SD cards.

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(FYI I always ask for my film returned uncut. I like to mess it up myself instead of paying someone to do it)
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Old 06-26-2019   #68
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Raid, it's a standard usb connection, nothing special to Leica. The Camera end is somewhat trapezoidal in shape, you can get them on Amazon or probably your local camera or computer store.
Thanks! I will check it out. I may need to connect the camera o the PC one day. You never know.
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Old 06-26-2019   #69
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The FAT doesn't have to be written to the same hardware place all the time, just the same logical place. That is what wear leveling is about, if the card supports that. If it is actual FAT than the table is also duplicated for redundancy.

I'd argue that formatting doesn't really make any difference than simply deleting files does. The FAT table has to record the location of every segment of a file. If you delete (instead of format) you are still writing to the fat to remove old file location entries. If you are using exFat then it also is updating the free space map.

Shawn
Yes, but it tends to be depending upon the OS file system software. The file system software in-camera tends to be very minimal and simplistic, and hits the same spots over and over again.

File deletion of course accesses the FAT too, but generally is much simpler in-camera: it just deletes the file entry from the table. All the other links are lost that way.

This is why I only do formatting with SDFormatter and my desktop computer. I know its a heck of a lot more sophisticated and does a better job than any in-camera formatting. I can't do much else with my Leica M-D ... it has no user facing file management tools...

G
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Old 06-26-2019   #70
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Raid, pm jsrockit. John had a corrupted card once and sent it out to recover the images. He could tell you what company it was. It's not cheap though from what I remember. I don't think many of the consumer software solutions would help much.
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Old 06-26-2019   #71
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Raid, pm jsrockit. John had a corrupted card once and sent it out to recover the images. He could tell you what company it was. It's not cheap though from what I remember. I don't think many of the consumer software solutions would help much.
I managed to open the card in the end, and I downloaded all image files from it. Thanks!
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Old 06-26-2019   #72
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I managed to open the card in the end, and I downloaded all image files from it. Thanks!
Just curious. Are you going to keep the card? Or discard it?

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Old 06-26-2019   #73
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Interesting discussion; I have often wondered if there are parts of drives and media card that are never used because they are at the end - so to speak.


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Old 06-26-2019   #74
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Just curious. Are you going to keep the card? Or discard it?

Jim B.
I don't know yet what to do with it, but I own many other cards. The card's "only crime" was to stop working when packed full.
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Old 06-27-2019   #75
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For those who might be interested, Sony just released a new series of SD cards said to be the strongest ever, hardware wise :

https://www.sony.com/electronics/sd-cards/sf-gt-series
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