Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Leicas and other Leica Mount Cameras > Leica General Discussion / News / Rumors

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Anyone else find statements like this annoying
Old 12-04-2017   #1
Timmyjoe
Registered User
 
Timmyjoe's Avatar
 
Timmyjoe is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 3,041
Anyone else find statements like this annoying

Just got an email from Leica, which started off with the following statement:

"Some people say that if Oskar Barnack were to build a camera today, it would have the APS-C format."

What People? Instead of trying to justify their decision to go with an APS-C sensor as opposed to a Full Frame sensor (which in essence is what Oscar originally designed), they pull this crap with the whole "Some people are saying . . ." BS.

I hope this is not the future of marketing, and I certainly expected more from Leica.

Best,
-Tim
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #2
JoeLopez
Registered User
 
JoeLopez's Avatar
 
JoeLopez is offline
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 364
Way to make irrelevance political.
__________________
Minolta A5 - acquired September 2018

Other gear: Minolta X-570, Nikon F3/T, N90s & D750, Fuji X100T
Nikkor 50mm f1.8, 28mm f2.8 E, Voigtlander 40mm f/2.0 Ultron SL, Minolta 45mm f2 & 50mm f1.7

My Flickr | My ebay | Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #3
ruby.monkey
Registered User
 
ruby.monkey is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Garden of England
Age: 49
Posts: 4,592
Anyway, everyone knows he would have chosen micro-4/3.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #4
CameraQuest
Head Bartender
 
CameraQuest is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: over the hills from Malibu
Posts: 5,736
"Some people say that if Oskar Barnack were to build a camera today, he would work for fuji."
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #5
ptpdprinter
Registered User
 
ptpdprinter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmyjoe View Post
I hope this is not the future of marketing, and I certainly expected more from Leica.
Why? Leica advertising has always been full of that sort of nonsense. What do you expect them to say?

"Some people say that if Oskar Barnack were to build a camera today, it would not have a red dot on the front of it."
__________________
ambientlightcollection.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #6
benlees
Registered User
 
benlees is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB
Age: 47
Posts: 1,553
Standard marketing: it suggests a conversation with you, important person; cognoscenti, if you will, that directs you to discover something so obvious that you could only agree with them. "Aha, I see it too". It's important for brands to have new histories. They reinterpret the past to give the future you want. Fun, right?

So crass, isn't it?
__________________
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #7
css9450
Registered User
 
css9450's Avatar
 
css9450 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,996
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeLopez View Post
Way to make irrelevance political.
Agreed. Completely unnecessary here. Reminds me of the comment section on Youtube.
__________________
Nikon S2, S3, F, F2, F3, FM2, FA, N90S, D80, D7000, D750, Sony a6000, Canon IIf, Leica CL, Tower type 3, Zorki 4, Vito B, Perkeo II, Rollei 35....
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #8
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is online now
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,586
It took me two minutes to find out why he made 135 film camera. It was very personal reason behind of it. Based on this, he would lead the mobile phone photography, IMO.

I'm not finding this Leica statement annoying. It seems thier main profit is not with MiC phone, but made in Germany cameras. And making small cameras is not German LeicA camera AG thing after Barnack left. Minox was not invented in Germany. So, for current Leica the mentioned format is small. GoPro isn't German, if I'm not mistaken, either.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #9
Timmyjoe
Registered User
 
Timmyjoe's Avatar
 
Timmyjoe is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 3,041
I stand by my original post. The annoyance I'm referring to is the dishonesty in such statements.

I find it cowardly and annoying when employed in an advertising campaign.

If there really is a knowledgeable someone, or someones, saying this, list them by name and give us their quotes. Don't hide behind the "Some people are saying . . ." BS.

Best,
-Tim
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #10
peterm1
Registered User
 
peterm1's Avatar
 
peterm1 is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,690
"I hope this is not the future of marketing, and I certainly expected more from Leica."

I fear it already is the future of marketing. And as someone once said the future is not what it used to be. Marketers are people who are paid to put nice sounding "spin" on subjects so people will part with their money. They are not historians (or brain surgeons) they are word merchants and constantly come up with rubbish.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #11
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
 
nukecoke's Avatar
 
nukecoke is offline
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Sweden/China
Posts: 1,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruby.monkey View Post
Anyway, everyone knows he would have chosen micro-4/3.
I think so too. M4/3 is the new 135.
__________________
tumblr

flickr(abandoned)

About Film Cameras
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #12
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is online now
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,078
No.

What’s annoying is the political tie-in.

I’ve been saying for years that “APS-C is the new full frame” (alternatively, “APS-C is the new miniature format”) and that is born out with sales figures.

It’s neither dishonest or inaccurate.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #13
benlees
Registered User
 
benlees is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB
Age: 47
Posts: 1,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
It’s neither dishonest or inaccurate.
It is actually. False by omission. Even true statements are not enough for accurate assessment if other true statements are omitted.

Of course, in this instance it is presented as hearsay/opinion to avoid any confusion.
__________________
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #14
Timmyjoe
Registered User
 
Timmyjoe's Avatar
 
Timmyjoe is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 3,041
If you read the article I linked to, you would see that "Some people are saying . . ." is a way of spreading falsehoods, lies, and innuendo, without taking responsibility for spreading those falsehoods, lies, and innuendo.

I couldn't care less whether the new Leica camera is better or worse than anything else on the market. I have a problem with Leica using the "Some people are saying . . ." marketing ploy to justify their decision to go APS-C sensor instead of Full Frame. Why can't they be up front in explaining their reasoning, reasoning I don't know enough about to agree with or not. What I find annoying is couching it in the "Some people say . . ." language.

Best,
-Tim
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #15
css9450
Registered User
 
css9450's Avatar
 
css9450 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmyjoe View Post
If you read the article I linked to, you would see that "Some people are saying . . ." is a way of spreading falsehoods, lies, and innuendo, without taking responsibility for spreading those falsehoods, lies, and innuendo.
Silly me, I thought this was a thread about cameras.
__________________
Nikon S2, S3, F, F2, F3, FM2, FA, N90S, D80, D7000, D750, Sony a6000, Canon IIf, Leica CL, Tower type 3, Zorki 4, Vito B, Perkeo II, Rollei 35....
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #16
goamules
Registered User
 
goamules is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,818
Wait, are you annoyed by the Leica advertising (using a common sales technique going back 100 years), or was this just a way to talk about the political things that annoy you?
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #17
css9450
Registered User
 
css9450's Avatar
 
css9450 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,996
Quote:
Originally Posted by goamules View Post
...or was this just a way to talk about the political things that annoy you?
Seems that would be against the forum rules. Oh, wait.... It is.
__________________
Nikon S2, S3, F, F2, F3, FM2, FA, N90S, D80, D7000, D750, Sony a6000, Canon IIf, Leica CL, Tower type 3, Zorki 4, Vito B, Perkeo II, Rollei 35....
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #18
Timmyjoe
Registered User
 
Timmyjoe's Avatar
 
Timmyjoe is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 3,041
I have to say, I'm a bit baffled. If you read thru every post I made on this thread, I've very clearly stated that I am annoyed that Leica, (a company that has sold me many products over the years) is copying a technique made famous in the last two years by a notoriously dishonest politician when he is trying to spread falsehoods and conspiracy theories.

This is not a discussion about that politician, even though it seems like some of you would like it to be. It is an attempt at having a discussion about a camera company, that many of us do business with, using the "Some people say . . ." advertising technique to market their new camera.

Best,
-Tim

PS: And the article I linked to, is an analysis of how the "Some people say . . ." technique is used to spread falsehoods without having to provide facts to back up what you are claiming. Which ties directly into my original post, which is why would a camera company that wants to be taken seriously, use this technique?
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #19
ptpdprinter
Registered User
 
ptpdprinter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,697
Of course, "some people say" does not bolster veracity, or else "some people say Sasquatch exists", "some people say they were abducted by aliens", and "some people say the earth is flat" would support the truth of the matter stated therein. So what makes "some people say that if Oskar Barnack were to build a camera today, it would have the APS-C format" believable? Was it meant to be believable? Where they just using it as a ham-handed way to invoke their heritage? Honestly, I think someone probably said it in a board meeting and everyone thought is sounded good so they went with it without thinking. I sure hope the boys in Wetzlar are not wasting their time on American politics.
__________________
ambientlightcollection.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #20
davidnewtonguitars
Family Snaps
 
davidnewtonguitars's Avatar
 
davidnewtonguitars is offline
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 1,431
Just because your gal or guy lost the election, you don't have to drag it into a discussion about what a lot of people say is the best camera company ever.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #21
back alley
IMAGES
 
back alley's Avatar
 
back alley is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: true north strong & free
Posts: 49,198
"Some people say that if Oskar Barnack were to build a camera today"...drives me crazy too!
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #22
farlymac
PF McFarland
 
farlymac's Avatar
 
farlymac is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 6,286
It may sound like marketing BS, but when you consider the advancements in sensor technology, you no longer need a full frame sensor to get good quality images. So why wouldn't OB design an APS-C camera, if keeping with the "smaller is better" mantra is to be followed? It takes more space for the electronics to house a 35mm frame sensor. Even the "medium format" sensors offered today don't come close to being "full frame", yet ooze gobs of resolution to rival the old TLRs and other 6xwhatever cameras of yesteryear.

Still, it doesn't mean I'd drink of the Leica Kool Ade.

PF
__________________
Waiting for the light
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #23
BillBingham2
Registered User
 
BillBingham2's Avatar
 
BillBingham2 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ames, Iowa, USA
Posts: 5,920
Some people say that if Oskar Barnack were to eat carrots, he would eat them with his eyes closed.........

Just a thought for a mONDAY!

B2 (;->
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #24
Timmyjoe
Registered User
 
Timmyjoe's Avatar
 
Timmyjoe is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 3,041
Not arguing whether APS-C or Full Frame is better. Just pointing out the advertising campaign, and annoyed that they would lead off with "Some people say . . ." instead of stating a fact like, "With an APS-C sensor you can get the same resolution as scanning a 35mm negative at 2000 dpi." Or "At Leica, we have found the dynamic range of our APS-C sensor camera is comparable to the 35mm film Oscar used in the 1920's." Or any number of statements that give us some facts and details about their camera.

Being that back in the day Leica made a big deal about the M9 having a full frame sensor, when compared to the M8 and most of the other digital cameras available at that time, if they now want to show why an APS-C sensor is the better way to go on their new camera, give us some actual information, not some hype about "Some people say (that someone who died years ago) would do this . . .".

Best,
-Tim
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #25
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,538
Hi,

I'm just pleased that some of us people agree with you...

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #26
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is online now
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,078
Much ado about nada.

  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #27
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,649
If Otto Daimler was to build a horseless carriage today ... it would probably have fuel injection! lol
__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #28
kshapero
Growing with experience
 
kshapero's Avatar
 
kshapero is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Age: 70
Posts: 9,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmyjoe View Post
I stand by my original post. The annoyance I'm referring to is the dishonesty in such statements.

I find it cowardly and annoying when employed in an advertising campaign.

If there really is a knowledgeable someone, or someones, saying this, list them by name and give us their quotes. Don't hide behind the "Some people are saying . . ." BS.

Best,
-Tim
Please keep our forum friendly. Politics not wanted. Chill dude.
__________________
akiva

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kshapero

Cameras, Lenses and Photos
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #29
zuiko85
Registered User
 
zuiko85 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,995
I've got, (somewhere around the house) a brochure by Leica from the early 90's advertising the M system. It's full of the same type of hype. 'Nothing new under the sun' seems to be as true in advertising as in many other aspects of our lives.

Probably the most appealing advertising of the last century was when DDB took on the Volkswagen account for the US market about 1959. Especially when they ran a full page in Life magazine in June of 1961 that was blank where the photo normally was. The ad copy read;

"No point showing the 62' Volkswagen, it still looks the same"

The company was horrified, paying for a full blank page in a national magazine. But that ad had the largest response of any they had ran up to that time.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #30
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is online now
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
If Otto Daimler was to build a horseless carriage today ... it would probably have fuel injection! lol
As long as that isn’t prefaced by “some people say,” it’s all good.

  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #31
CMur12
Registered User
 
CMur12 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Moses Lake, Washington, USA
Age: 68
Posts: 1,064
It certainly makes sense for Leica to ponder what Oskar Barnack would do with today's technology. Considering the image quality possible with 35mm film at OB's time, I think KoFe might be closer to the truth: Oskar Barnack would probably love smart phone cameras.

Leica's wording here doesn't really bother me, but I have my own triggers, so I'll empathize with Tim on that level.

- Murray
__________________
Still shooting film: Medium Format with assorted TLRs; 35mm with manual-focus Minolta SLRs and a Canonet.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #32
Lux Optima
Registered User
 
Lux Optima is offline
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 66
If Oskar Barnack were to build a camera today it would again be a glorious camera. What else is worth any discussion? Period.
__________________
Cheers, Stefan
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #33
Doug
Moderator
 
Doug's Avatar
 
Doug is offline
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pacific NW, USA
Posts: 13,131
Some editing has been done in this thread to remove partisan political content, and a bit of film "religion". RFF is a non-partisan forum, so whatever politics or religion you're "for or agin" is off-topic...
__________________
Doug’s Gallery
RFF on Facebook
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #34
kshapero
Growing with experience
 
kshapero's Avatar
 
kshapero is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Age: 70
Posts: 9,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug View Post
Some editing has been done in this thread to remove partisan political content, and a bit of film "religion". RFF is a non-partisan forum, so whatever politics or religion you're "for or agin" is off-topic...
Thanks, appreciate it. Now back to our regularly scheduled shows.
__________________
akiva

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kshapero

Cameras, Lenses and Photos
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #35
Dirk
Privatier
 
Dirk's Avatar
 
Dirk is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmyjoe View Post
I stand by my original post. The annoyance I'm referring to is the dishonesty in such statements.

I find it cowardly and annoying when employed in an advertising campaign.

If there really is a knowledgeable someone, or someones, saying this, list them by name and give us their quotes. Don't hide behind the "Some people are saying . . ." BS.

Best,
-Tim
Where in the advertising industry is this NOT happening? That's how they roll. You're only now noticing?
__________________
Ricoh 500G, Canon 5D, Nikon N70, Canon Elan 7e.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #36
Pioneer
Registered User
 
Pioneer's Avatar
 
Pioneer is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 65
Posts: 3,156
I say that Oskar wouldn't bother building a camera today. He wouldn't have to.
__________________
You gotta love a fast lens;

It is almost as good as a fast horse!
Dan
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #37
jbharrill1
Registered User
 
jbharrill1 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: NC
Posts: 115
__________________
www.baxterharrill.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #38
fireblade
Vincenzo.
 
fireblade's Avatar
 
fireblade is offline
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmyjoe View Post
Just got an email from Leica, which started off with the following statement:

"Some people say that if Oskar Barnack were to build a camera today, it would have the APS-C format."

What People? Instead of trying to justify their decision to go with an APS-C sensor as opposed to a Full Frame sensor (which in essence is what Oscar originally designed), they pull this crap with the whole "Some people are saying . . ." BS.

I hope this is not the future of marketing, and I certainly expected more from Leica.

Best,
-Tim
You should email Leica and tell them that a long long time ago, Pinnochio and Raggedy Ann got married.
__________________
Vincenzo

"No place is boring, if you've had a good night's sleep and have a pocket full of unexposed film."
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #39
rfaspen
Registered User
 
rfaspen's Avatar
 
rfaspen is offline
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 1,690
Some people say the ghost of Oscar is channeling through the folks at "Team Konost".

A ghost camera for sure.

Actually, I have been annoyed at Leica marketing gimmicks of late. They have gotten pretty sappy at times.

And not interested in APS-C. No longer have APS-H either (but that happened to be a darn good camera). Its all full frame and m4/3 nowadays.....too bad Oscar can't help with that. Or did he?
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2017   #40
Contarama
Registered User
 
Contarama is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 1,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
If Otto Daimler was to build a horseless carriage today ... it would probably have fuel injection! lol
Some people say it would be driverless too!
__________________
Art is the ability to make something...even if it is a big mess...
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:44.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.