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Forsaking all film for digital
Old 11-22-2004   #1
bmattock
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Forsaking all film for digital

Sign of the times? Ahead of his time? A complete idiot?

You be the judge - I think it is handwriting on the wall, but what do I know?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...oto.43a55.html

Quote:
Forsaking all film for digital
09:03 AM CST on Monday, November 22, 2004

By STEVE QUINN / The Dallas Morning News

PLANO – All Jeff Goulston wanted was a little job security. Having watched thousands of jobs get shipped overseas, the technology consultant saw his long-term prospects drying up.

Camera Stop may be the only store of its kind nationally, industry analysts and manufacturing executives say. And with digital camera sales surpassing film camera sales for the first time last year, it could point to what's ahead in photo retailing.

"A year ago, I might have said he's too early," said Ron Glaz, chief analyst for research firm International Data Corp. in Boston. "Now he's on the cusp where he's positioned himself before the whole market changes. I would say he's set up for the future."

Mr. Goulston opened Camera Stop knowing full well that the family-run shop would have to beat discounters, drugstores, electronics chains and specialty stores to win the digital dollar – particularly during the holidays, when big retailers arm themselves with multimillion-dollar ad budgets.

"People thought I was crazy," said Mr. Goulston, whose longtime passions of photography and technology drove his choice. "But there is nobody in this area who was servicing the needs of the digital photographer from capture to output and everything between – but we do and that's why we're still here a year later."

Sales of digital cameras have been rising steadily since they hit the mass market 10 years ago, while sales of film cameras have started to fall, according to the Photo Marketing Association International.

Even so, the number of households that own film equipment is more than double those that own digital cameras – 74 million to 33 million.

And sales of film prints still lead sales of digital prints by a wide margin – about 26.3 billion to 3.4 billion.


Competitors

Competition comes from electronics stalwarts such as Best Buy, Circuit City, Ultimate Electronics and Conn's, which offer periodic, hard-to-beat discounts on cameras.

Big processors such as discounters Wal-Mart and Sam's Club and drugstores Walgreen and CVS also get a big cut of the business.

Then there are national specialty chains Wolf Camera and Ritz Camera, and established local shops like Competitive Cameras in Dallas or Cooter's Village Camera in Highland Park. These stores have a healthy stock of digital cameras and supplies, but haven't abandoned film.

"Film is by no means dead," said Ramsey Jabbour, owner of 24-year-old Competitive Cameras. "I've had people buy digital cameras, then come back and buy film cameras."

What Mr. Goulston is doing, Mr. Jabbour said, "isn't risky and it isn't cutting edge; he's simply capitalizing on the fastest-growing facet of photography."

For a small shop like Camera Stop to survive, it must attract first-time customers, provide them with options, shower them with service and keep the prices competitive, experts said.

"If people have already bought from him, then he needs them to come back for the rest of the stuff: accessories, printing and archiving," Mr. Glaz said. "If he's a one-stop shop and reasonable, I suspect he will do well."


Ready to adjust

Geoff Wissman, vice president for Retail Forward, a research firm in Columbus, Ohio, said Mr. Goulston must be nimble enough to adjust to the industry's rapid changes and be able to guide customers through the labyrinth of new technology.

"The issue right now is, with the capabilities going up and with how quickly everything is coming out, how much camera do people need to purchase?" he said. "For this kind of specialty store, you need a lot of options in terms of what you can buy, and he needs to play to his strength – that he knows digital cameras and that's all he does."

In a city where big-box retailers dominate, Mr. Goulston's 1,300-square-foot store at Preston and Parker roads in Plano has the charm of a small mom-and-pop business – he and his wife, Lauren, are often joined at work by their dog, a Great Pyrenees.

The store appeals to photographers wanting the point-and-shoots as much as it does the geeks looking to get their hands on CD burners, memory cards or sensor swabs or to print their own photos at one of the three kiosks.

Still, Mr. Goulston operates with the sophistication of an established chain with loyalty programs designed to bring back customers. A camera purchase comes with 10 free prints a month for one year and a one-hour lesson.

It's part of a strategy that includes tracking the competition's pricing, selling equipment made by camera companies rather than electronics makers – and staying digital.

A few months ago, however, Mr. Goulston had a moment of weakness. He now sells film because he "got tired of sending people two doors down to Albertsons to get film."

"We have to take a realistic price approach, but we still want to win their business and keep it," Mr. Goulston said. "Sometimes if it means giving discounts on accessories because they bought a camera, we're willing to work with them."

So far, he said, his store is turning a profit, though he declined to discuss start-up costs or sales.

Mr. Goulston's business and the prospects for growth are buoyed by the growing simplicity of digital cameras, industry executives said.

Digital photo processing services are becoming more available, and beginning photographers don't have to invest hundreds of dollars in computer software, printers and special paper.

Additionally, people are becoming more comfortable with the transition from film to digital cameras. Those who never owned one are willing to try; those who have already owned one are upgrading.

"I don't think the photography culture has changed because people still want prints," said Elliott Peck, Canon's vice president/general manager of sales and the consumer-imaging group. "The ease of use is the driving force behind increasing the business. The industry is doing a great job of letting customers know this is affordable."


Film slowly fading

It may take an entire generation for digital to completely take over the industry, according to manufacturing executives whose companies still roll out new lines of film cameras.

And camera retailers such as Ritz Camera and Wolf Camera will continue to sell the appropriate balance of film and digital equipment.

For now.

"It's not inconceivable that you'll see digital-only stores, but I don't see it in the immediate future," said Dave Dumont, head of merchandising for Ritz Camera Centers, parent company of Ritz and Wolf.

"It's what's driving our business, but as much as the film business is down, there is still such an installed user base with millions who have cameras in the closet and take them out for the holidays."
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Old 11-22-2004   #2
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Personally, I welcome the digital rEvolution. From what I have learned, photog's used to keep their developing skills secret from one another, due to photography being an ART only for the artists. Then came the Brownie....and everyone was an ARTIST....Then came color and whoa - B&W was going to die a quick death....which it didn't.

Now we have the digital camera descending upon us. From what I see, the stuff I do in the darkroom is going to get thrown back in the art that it was when it was first invented.

The PS guru's are going to be the top of the industry, but I will be a rare breed (and so will my kids when the get old enough to shoot/develop film). I am going to pass my digital expertise as well as I my film expertise to my kids.

I am also making a portfolio of my photos and plan to frame them and my digital prints and head to some shows with a friend of mine.

The darkroom developer will rise as an artisit and film will be here for a long time. We just won't be able to go to the local store and buy some FP4.....
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Old 11-22-2004   #3
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Hm. So what is the genoius trick the guy does, and gets ahead of everyone? Having a shop only-digital? Or offering 10 prints if you buy from him, and one hour lesson? Couldn't get out more from the text (i'm a bit tired, true).

Thanks for the link, anyway...
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Old 11-22-2004   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pherdinand
Hm. So what is the genoius trick the guy does, and gets ahead of everyone? Having a shop only-digital? Or offering 10 prints if you buy from him, and one hour lesson? Couldn't get out more from the text (i'm a bit tired, true).

Thanks for the link, anyway...
1) His shop only does digital.
2) He and his staff are experts in all aspects of digital photo technology.
3) He offers an end-to-end service, from selling the cameras to the batteries to the memory cards, to printers and kiosk-style enlargements and kiosks.

Why is this 'genius?'

Not doing film means his capital resources are tied up in stock that is moving quickly. I'm not complaining, but a brown bottle jug or a packet of D76 on a shelf is going to sit there for awhile, yes?

He can compete with Walmart and Best Buy - not on price, but by being subject-matter experts and being willing to explain things to consumers who are just getting into digital and are bewildered.

Ultimate hand-holding and not making customer feel stupid - offering an end-to-end service - breeds customer loyalty.

The same things can be brought to any field of endevour - but it so happens that digital is moving quickly. There is much to know, much to keep up with, and it all must be explained to the masses who won't read and won't keep up, but demand the 'best' when they decide to open their checkbooks. And it all must be provided without being condescending - even stupid customers know when they're being patronized oftentimes.

Lots of risks here - Walmart & Best Buy may crush him where he can't compete - price. He may end up with obsolete stock on his shelves that he can't sell quickly enough, while the value of it drops like a stone (a danger in stocking any 'technology' I'm afraid). Customers may not feel like paying extra for extra service - but I suspect a significant minority will.

I think there is a living to be made here. Not that it is without risks, but there is opportunity.

In the early 1900's, smart people opened gasoline filling and automobile service stations. This is like that, in my opinion.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
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Old 11-22-2004   #5
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I see. Thanks for the extra explanation, Bill.
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Old 11-22-2004   #6
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Bill, makes sense. Thanks.....
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Old 11-22-2004   #7
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but I think like bill mentioned, his stock is going to become obsolete faster than you can say "cash or card?". big stores have the volume to take occasional losses from price drops but I"m not sure if a small shop like his can.
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Old 11-22-2004   #8
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Film? What's film? Personally, I think that the wave of the future is in tintypes. So much faster and less toxic than Daguerrotypes!
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Old 11-22-2004   #9
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Good luck getting someone to hold your hand while explaining the nuances of operating a digital camera at Walmart or Costco.

L. I tried placing one of those memory cards in my negative carrier on my Durst. Not only highlights, but even the shadows tended to block up. Maybe my camera is overexposing the memory card.
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Old 11-22-2004   #10
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David, I agree with your earlier post! Let the great unwashed and uncultured masses migrate to digital. Digital will become the point and shoot medium of choice, while real film, especially B&W, will become the serious, arty medium, and wet darkroom alchemy will once again become a virtually unkown and mysterious knowledge passed from one practitioner to another, preserving a secret brotherhood.
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Old 11-22-2004   #11
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Well, I would go to his shop. And I don't even use digital. He's running a shop based on quality and service, much like the shop that I go to. And you have to respect that.

There's too many people, some even come to this website, that don't see the value in this kind of service. Sure, I can get film and processing cheaper elsewhere other than Art's, but I don't get service at Walgreens.
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Old 11-22-2004   #12
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Interesting looking store... sounds like a cool idea. Many of the folks I've seen selling digital cameras don't know much about photography at all and thus are worse than useless to a first-time buyer.

On a side note, I can't help but think after the research I've been doing into digital lately that the time when I switch back to digital may be approaching. Great strides have apparently been made in battery life, storage media , etc. since I got my Dimage 7i and manufacturers have negated or minimized most of the issues I had in those areas. I really only have one serious complaint left with digital and that is I wish the manufacturers would make the ergonomics of the compact digital cameras more like the compact fixed-lens rangefinders we all know and love. I would dearly love to have an affordable, pocketable digital camera that does away with movie modes I'll never use, obtuse menu systems, and just lets me shoot like I can with my XA or C35. Until I find that camera, though, I'll keep one foot firmly planted in the film world.
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Old 11-22-2004   #13
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Interestingly enough, he decided to carry film. What else do you expect to find in a camera store?

Smart man... but I hope he can sell old, outdated inventory fast enough. If not, I'd like to go when he wants to have a big sale offering the Nikon D70 at super sale prices!
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Old 11-22-2004   #14
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I think he'll survive if he keeps a limited number of the top brands/models in stock and reorders as his sales increase. That may be the problem though, with two PMA shows a year manufacturers are releasing new models at light speed, the 6 megapixel Canon G5 you bought in march has been replaced with a 7.1 megapixel Canon G6 in August and so it goes.
While I shoot alot of film ( I've got bricks of Tri-X and Acros on my Xmas list) I also shoot alot of digital. Digital isn't that bad, look in the gallery, they're all digitized (scanned) images
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Old 11-22-2004   #15
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Bill, you're right there. One cannot afford to be an ostrich. That's why I'm hoping these cameras (in my case the D70 or some other Nikon body) go down in price. I live in a small town, but, despite to my relative closeness to a large city, I can't get many things unless I order them through the web. What about the day when (let me gasp) Target or my grocery store no longer carry film (but still have discardable P&S)?

In the meanwhile, I've been fantasizing about a Nikon Coolpix 2100. A student of mine had one in Costa Rica and they're very competent micropixelers and have delightful macro capabilities. The only blink on the screen: you can't go beyond making 4X6 prints with that one, and, to be quite honest, if there's something I like is the 9X17 print I have in my studio... taken with a diminutive G1 with very cheap chromogenic Kodak film.

But times change...
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Old 11-22-2004   #16
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Todd, nice to see you again around here!
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Old 11-22-2004   #17
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Nice to be seen again, I started back in school and this semester is killing me! Spending too much time on the books and not enough time behind an RF, looking forward to the winter break so I can shoot some.

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Old 11-22-2004   #18
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I agree with Chris. My local Ritz is a "Cell Phone/Accesories/Developer", not a camera shop.
Since we have no real Camera stores in my area, I send my film to a great pro-lab in another state that gives incredible customer service. Yes I can get cheaper, but I can't get consistant quality with real service like that in any area these days ~ ; - )
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Old 11-25-2004   #19
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"L. I tried placing one of those memory cards in my negative carrier on my Durst. Not only highlights, but even the shadows tended to block up. Maybe my camera is overexposing the memory card."

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Not only that, but I can't seem to get any discernible images trying to print the memory cards through my wood contact printing frames, not even on that new-fangled P.O.P. paper!
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Old 12-01-2004   #20
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OK, I'm going to eat a little crow from my previous post. I just got back from a vacation in the Florida Keys and took only my Olympus XA (sorry, Joe, I couldn't squeeze the Konica into my bag). I'm pretty sure most of the pictures will turn out but I kept wishing I'd packed my Dimage 7i so I could review and make sure I got it right; some of these were truly one-time opportunities of light and color. One of the folks I was traveling with brought a newer digital camera than mine (Olympus 4MP, can't remember the exact model) and her battery life was quite impressive even when she had to drop in a set of alkalines, so I am now fully willing to be wrong on that score and admit that there might not be such a serious barrier any more. Her photos were pretty good quality as well. At least I'll be able to post the vacation pics here guilt-free since they were shot with a rangefinder

I'll be running the film to the developer later this afternoon, hopefully I can post the keepers soon.
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Old 12-01-2004   #21
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Boy, I remember the days when I lived in s. fl and was in the keyes every single week end. What a great place to just lay back and forget about everything.
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Forsaking Film for Digital
Old 02-28-2005   #22
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Forsaking Film for Digital

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankS
David, I agree with your earlier post! Let the great unwashed and uncultured masses migrate to digital. Digital will become the point and shoot medium of choice, while real film, especially B&W, will become the serious, arty medium, and wet darkroom alchemy will once again become a virtually unkown and mysterious knowledge passed from one practitioner to another, preserving a secret brotherhood.
I also agree; B/W will become more of a specialized service for the public, especially for weddings and portraiture. I offer my wedding clients a portfolio of hand-printed, fiber-based B/W prints, and they love the idea of a UNIQUE portfolio of hand-made artistry, not some commonplace digital album that all their other married friends have and often complain about.

Still, I've only seen one pro lab machine that matches film-print quality and I think it's called the FUJIPIX. I've compared my color digital images (shot on 20D) printed on the FUJIPIX to color film images printed on the same machine, and the prints look identical except film had better saturation. Anyway, long live film and B/W!

Chris
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Old 02-28-2005   #23
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I, for one, welcome our new digital overlords.
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Old 02-28-2005   #24
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The guy's a good merchant, I think. He's intent on keeping close to his customers' desires and wants, end to end, so I doubt he'll be buying much stock that won't translate into sales. If his stock isn't moving, he'll have a good feel as to what will help it move. He's got a plan, a darn good one. I like his thinking and hope he does well.

Don't know about the writing on the wall. People still buy, train, and ride horses well after the advent of the motor-driven carriage. Film will live on, as long as we all buy it in sufficient volume to support its manufacture. Let's be sure to do business regularly with those who support our preferences, especially those brave few who still repair our cameras professionally. Shoot more, shoot often, I say, and provide a reason for film makers to go on and on ...
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Old 02-28-2005   #25
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I like to see more digital cameras being sold. This encourages people to let go of some very nice photographic equipment. I use digital but I have bought more film cameras in the last 6 months than before. Prices are very good.

When you shoot film you have a negative or positive. Stored properly, they last and have more data on that film than any reasonably priced digital camera is able to provide. I take the film, have it put onto a CD and file the film and dump the CD into my computer. If I need a large print. Voila I have it on film. I can do it. You can't get large prints of similar quality from a digital camera yet. Considering image quality I am still in the film camp and not looking to leave.

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Old 02-28-2005   #26
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The store is a great idea. But it mean little to all of us using film. Film isn't dead, and will be around a long, long time.
That said, there is a place for digital and of course it's growing with tech advancements.
It doesn't come down to "either or" film or digital - I use BOTH, for their best features. Film for quality, digital for speed of turn-around ~ ; - )
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Old 03-01-2005   #27
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I think it's interesting that interest in black and white seems to be increasing -- especially with the younger generations. I've had several twenty somethings tell me they like my B&W shots because they seem "more real." I've always felt black and white was powerful because color often distract the eye from main point of the photo.
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Old 03-01-2005   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmattock

Y I think it is handwriting on the wall, but what do I know?
Best Regards,
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Bill, the only handwriting on the wall I can see is (SPEAKING ONLY FOR THE AMATEUR MARKETS !!) that this technological "revolution" has damnaged an already sick photo market seriously indeed, but now it begins to eat it's own new market before it can achieve a completely takeover of analog .

The market of digital P&S is almost dead , it will be taken over by sophisticated phonecams with 4-6 MP soon. Maybe one from 1000 pics of all he billons shot with the phonecams will be printed , the younger folks shoot, send and post it. The file rests in peace then untill the HD crashes.
That means camera AND the print business in the digital P&S market is gone soon for all dealers. And wasn't this the main market in photo biz ?
DSLR ? Among the so called serious amateurs there are still a lot of people who still got not blind from all this digi hype . Maybe they will have an additional DSLR too and will use it for certain purposes but they will not give up film as long as the digital results of the amateur DSLRs look like they look , not as long as the prices are five times higher than for an analog camera and not as long as the mini chips cause so massive restrictions to the lenses . The APS chips are an interim technology pushed with a lot of marketing into a photo market which had been saturated, narrow margined and static.

Much of those sad stories we read today about filmmakers and cameramakers in troubles are much more a consequence of the crowded photo market than of the impact of the digital cameras, in other words they would have happened anyway.

What will remain after the storm is gone ? Worst case an almost completely vanished digital P&S market, a not too small part of the old analog P&S print market kept alive by billions of analog P&S , a SLR market which will be divided in a digital and a analog section and some niches where some boring old farts (known as BOFs) and their sons skeep on shooting weird cameras like RF, TLR or LF field cameras. It is not to assume that all this analog potential will get so small that only one film amnufacturer can survive . And as long as this won't happen I don't even worry about film prices.

Also because it is to be seen that even the pros will use film in future for certain purposes. In general it is a very brightening experienc to talk to real pros, not to those who once have decided to call themselves so. They tell you all that digital is just more economic for them, but takes less good pics. And once introduced as a tool no pro can avoid it if he wants to survive. Nevertheless film is still used for some purposes, for example landscape prints for some magazines based on 4X5 negs.

Lately I read : "I've wrestled a long time with my decision but then I decided to go digital because the pros all do so and therefore it shall be the future".
Well some are simply not able to to watch what happens around and to make their own conclusions. These eyes-wide-shut-prohets prefer crystal balls , reading in the coffe grounds or they simply guess and call it forecast. Quite normal nowadays, many of this kind are even member of the board. ;-)

Emulsionly,

Bertram
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Old 03-01-2005   #29
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I stopped at my local wolf camera the other day (something I nver do, but I lost a lenscap while I was out and needed to replace it) I actually heard a salesman say something that to me sums up who will end up using digital and who will end up using film. A customer was about to replace his n8008 and asked if he should by a d70 or an N80. The salesman asked "Do you keep your negatives, and do you ever order reprints?" the man said yes and the salesman said "then buy the N80" The picture qualty will be the same, but you will always be ablle to get reprints from negatives. How often have you notbeen able to read a cd?" I thought this summed it up well. Those of us pro's and amateurs who keep meticulously filed negatives, and often print from or scan them, will end up sticking with film, or coming back to it when the first of our cds become unreadable. Those, like my mom and dad, who throw away negs once they have their prints, will migrate to digital.
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Old 03-01-2005   #30
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Funny ideas people have about the "camera phone" market. Those phones are actually banned in some countries, or have severe restrictions on their use. _Most_ of the population, will _not_ get one or use one. Do you realize that camera phones actually charge you _per_ _shot_ to store and/or download.. that's right, you're charged just to keep the shot, not even to print it. That's why there'll continue to be a digicam p&s market. Cellphone manufacturers will _never_ allow you to use storage cards. That defeats the purpose of camera phones, which is to generate airtime revenue. Too many people are buying into this "hype" of the cameraphone.

The "affordable" DSLR market is already here. A new Canon 300D is now only $750CDN-, that's only 2x to 2.5x more than the film equiv. I've already had my 300D for almost a year (10k shots, mostly birds) and will be getting the 350D soon... need one for me, one for the wife .

What does that mean for me and RFF? It's the best of both worlds for me, film for these great RF's and for the wide angles, and digital for everything else. Digital is just another medium, use each to it's best advantage.
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Old 03-01-2005   #31
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The store's not a bad idea except for the fact that he runs the risk that people will just go to him for research & buy from someone else with a lower price
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Five a Second. Chicago's Bell & Howell Co. (cameras) announced that it would put on sale this fall the world's most expensive still camera. Its "Foton" will take five 35-mm. pictures a second, sell for $700. Bell & Howell, which has found that "families of both low and high incomes now spend over $550" for movie equipment, hopes to sell 20,000 Fotons a year.
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Old 03-01-2005   #32
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BTW, great Simpsons reference!

Quote:
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I, for one, welcome our new digital overlords.
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Five a Second. Chicago's Bell & Howell Co. (cameras) announced that it would put on sale this fall the world's most expensive still camera. Its "Foton" will take five 35-mm. pictures a second, sell for $700. Bell & Howell, which has found that "families of both low and high incomes now spend over $550" for movie equipment, hopes to sell 20,000 Fotons a year.
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Old 03-01-2005   #33
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Last week my hard drive had a few bad sectors on it. Try as I might I could not recover data from the sectors.

I had a few digital photo stored on some of those "sectors". I was not able to retrieve them. Luckily I am overly paranoid and burned them to 2 DVD's prior to the drive taking a dump.

No warnings, no signs, nothing....it just quit working. Welcome to the digital age....
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Old 03-01-2005   #34
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Anyone here ever see the old Saturday Night Live skit with Steve Martin plunging his entire life savings into a "Scotch Tape Boutique?" That's right - a store that only sells scotch tape. He was way ahead of everyone . . except that no one came through the door.

I don't see that the guy in the article has any sort of competitive advantage. Anyone can copy his business, or just create a special section in a store with specialists.

Yes, the world is going digital. And millions of people dine under the Golden Arches. It's still mostly cr*p, though.

Robert
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Old 03-01-2005   #35
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I was flipping though View Camera magazine on the newsstand this weekend and I saw an interesting quote from a Kodak representative who noted that their large format sales have actually gone up slightly over previous years. I can't remember exactly what he felt this increase was due to, but I think he said something about serious amateurs wanting to reconnect with the process of photography as well as seeking ways to increase the resolution of their photos without breaking the bank. If somebody can provide a more exact version of this reference or remembers it more accurately, please post.
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Old 03-01-2005   #36
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I don't know the reference you mentioned, but I'll bet dollars to donuts it's simply because prices for larger format equipment have fallen through the basement. I personally know of more than a few acquaintances who have used the availability of cheaper larger formats to supplement their digital SLR setups. When medium and large format kits being sold for $2000 a mere 5 or 10 years ago are now being liquidated at $200-500 on ebay, those are hard bargains to pass up if it suits your style of photography. And the prices of darkroom equipment -- enlargers and stuff -- have fallen even more dramatically with the improvements in scanners and printers.

And people said that digital depreciates in value too quickly...

Also, my experience has been that "using larger format format film to increase the resolution of their photos without breaking the bank" is a spot-on description. Digital medium format backs are priced completely out of the range of amateurs, but good medium and larger format film equipment can be had for less than a DSLR body alone. Makes perfect economic sense to use larger format film if resolution is what you're after.

Now, this rangefinder thing makes no economic sense...
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Old 03-01-2005   #37
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The mannager of a local photo store (Montreal) told me that they sold more films during the 2004-05 hollidays than last year (2003-04). On the other hand, they sold pretty much only digicams and DSLRs.

About large format, I guess there are people migrating to it now. I'm considering it now. I'm after image quality. My 35mm rig is fine for its purpose but I want something serious for serious projects. Medium format isn't enough for my taste. A 4x5 seems to make sense while an 8x10 is very tempting but seems a bit excessive, like a Ferrari... I'm also looking for a photo club or equivalent where I could get access to a darkroom. I don't think I'd like to set one up in my appartment (although my bathroom is pretty much built for this).
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Old 03-01-2005   #38
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This is really interesting. I shoot rangefinder cameras for myself, but for a lot of my work, I shoot digital. I shoot a Nikon D2H. I live in the Dallas area and I will be in the area where this store is on Friday, and I will stop by and check it out. I will post my impressions of the visit later.
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Old 03-01-2005   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macbeth 2003
I the salesman said "then buy the N80" The picture qualty will be the samel.
Tho this salesman was reamrkable honest and tried to find the very best way to satisfy his customer, at this point he used a straight lie. The D70 maybe produces sharp (ened) images but this has nothing to do with image quality.
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Old 03-01-2005   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kin Lau
Funny ideas people have about the "camera phone" market. Those phones are actually banned in some countries, or have severe restrictions on their use. _Most_ of the population, will _not_ get one or use one. Do you realize that camera phones actually charge you _per_ _shot_ to store and/or download.. that's right, you're charged just to keep the shot, not even to print it. That's why there'll continue to be a digicam p&s market. Cellphone manufacturers will _never_ allow you to use storage cards. That defeats the purpose of camera phones, which is to generate airtime revenue. Too many people are buying into this "hype" of the cameraphone..
Sorry but funny I found your remarks. Nothing of all these points concern us here in Europe, no restrictions, no charge per shot to store and download, I can store and download by bluetooth or cable as much as the build in storage allows and I can use the phone whereever I want. What are you talking about ?Sounds as if you live in US ?.
The funny ideas are not mine btw but those of camera dealers suffering already from a changing market. I never sell my personal opinion as a fact, opposite to many other self taught experts. If the digital P&S junk won't vanish because of the phonecams then this will happen because this market is almost saturated . People have bought the second one already after the first one was too bad but they will not follow those idiotically short innovation periods of all digital stuff and buy a third one after two years, which hasn't got cheaper than the first one bus is of course much "better" , which means less bad related to analog standards.

DSLR: Yes you can get a cheap one as Canon D300 or Nikon D70 for $850 here.
A Dynaxx 60 or a Canon 300V for 200. Still factor 4 or more. Until I get the first ROI it would take 130 films or 2,5 years for me. I don't shoot more SLR. But 2,5 years from now this camera will have lost 70% of it's worth and so the ROI is eaten before it comes to me the first time. Monkey business.

Even if money would not play a role at all ( and it does not obviously for most of the users of cheap DSLRs) there remains still the problem of the output quality.

If sharp pics are all you need and your castrated wide lenses don't bother you then you can live with a Canon 300d. But for me sharp images are not enuff, there are still a lot other things which are important for the the quality of a pic.
Opposite to many photographers who are obviously giving up all their quality standard in panic, afraid of missing the last train into the digital future, I don't give up mine., especially not for B&W, which seems a quite hopeless issue for so called prosumer DSLRS.

Don't get me wrong I'd never critizise somebody for using a digital P&S or a DSLR, but I it is offending my ( anyway poor) intelligence if somebody tries to tell me this stuff is an qualitative and for amateurs economic alternative . I have not fallen in the digital coma yet and I never will.

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