7Artisans 35mm f/2 - Okay with Film?
Old 01-10-2020   #1
agentlossing
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7Artisans 35mm f/2 - Okay with Film?

I'm looking for a 35mm to put on my Bessa T, so far I'm leaning towards the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm f2.5, which seems decent, but there's also the 7artisans lens that would be much quicker to get to me from US website with free 2-day shipping (coughcough) versus slow and expensive shipping from Japan.

Has anyone used the 7artisans lens with film, and does it have decent rendering? I like more characterful lenses, but not so much that I'm attached to any certain look. The Chinese lens seems like a decent but ho-hum lens on digital, wondering how its rendering and coatings, etc will turn out on film.
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Old 01-10-2020   #2
Huss
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https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...d.php?t=169144

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...d.php?t=167375

And also read this:

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...d.php?t=169487
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Old 01-10-2020   #3
Huss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentlossing View Post
The Chinese lens seems like a decent but ho-hum lens on digital..
And here I compared it to my Summicron 35 Asph on digital.

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...d.php?t=167382
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Old 01-10-2020   #4
agentlossing
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Thanks! All sounds alright except for the possibility of having to adjust the focus calibration - since I only have a film M mount camera, it could be a bit of a pain to do that.
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Old 01-10-2020   #5
maartenmoerman
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Shot the louvre in Abu Dhabi. 7artisans 35mm, LeicaM6, kodak ektrachome, scanned on hasselblad imacon.

images are 34mpixel, was a quick scan, might be some dust on it, quick conversion to jpeg with apple-preview from tiff format, no corrections done.

Sharpness is amazing, barrel distortion is present.


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Old 01-10-2020   #6
davidnewtonguitars
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I have the same questions. This roll, (Eastman 5222 in HC110) are from last week. Does the lens have any "character"? It is being used on the M2 out of the box, without calibration, seems pretty good to me.



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Old 01-10-2020   #7
ranger9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentlossing View Post
Thanks! All sounds alright except for the possibility of having to adjust the focus calibration - since I only have a film M mount camera, it could be a bit of a pain to do that.
Normally you don't have to do that. I have both this and to 50/1.1, and they were perfect right out of the box. I think 7Artisans includes this capability mostly for people whose cameras are at (or just past) the edge of the tolerance range.

As long as I seem to be plugging my YouTube channel today, here's the video I did about it (no film examples, though...)

https://youtu.be/Q8JKV1TXk6A
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Old 01-10-2020   #8
Huss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maartenmoerman View Post
Shot the louvre in Abu Dhabi. 7artisans 35mm, LeicaM6, kodak ektrachome, scanned on hasselblad imacon.

images are 34mpixel, was a quick scan, might be some dust on it, quick conversion to jpeg with apple-preview from tiff format, no corrections done.

Sharpness is amazing, barrel distortion is present.


If you look at the comparison I did with my Summicron Asph you will see that that lens also has some distortion.
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Old 01-10-2020   #9
agentlossing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger9 View Post
Normally you don't have to do that. I have both this and to 50/1.1, and they were perfect right out of the box. I think 7Artisans includes this capability mostly for people whose cameras are at (or just past) the edge of the tolerance range.

As long as I seem to be plugging my YouTube channel today, here's the video I did about it (no film examples, though...)

https://youtu.be/Q8JKV1TXk6A
That's good, although the one 7artisans lens I do have (the 25mm f1.8 for M4/3) doesn't have the best quality control, the aperture ring drifts from where it's supposed to be. Although I do realize the quality of the 35mm f2 is likely much better than that of the $80 25mm.
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Old 01-10-2020   #10
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Yeah I also had the 25 for my Oly M43, and these M lenses are very different.
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Old 01-10-2020   #11
maartenmoerman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger9 View Post
Normally you don't have to do that. I have both this and to 50/1.1, and they were perfect right out of the box. I think 7Artisans includes this capability mostly for people whose cameras are at (or just past) the edge of the tolerance range.

As long as I seem to be plugging my YouTube channel today, here's the video I did about it (no film examples, though...)

https://youtu.be/Q8JKV1TXk6A
Mine definitely needed calibration. My M6 had a CLA just before i had the 7artisans calibrated, so that was perfect.
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Old 01-10-2020   #12
agentlossing
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I could probably go the Amazon route and utilize their return policy if needed, but I'd have to shoot and develop a roll of film just to test the lens. This one seems like a viable option, but I have to admit... Looking through the Voigt 35mm 2.5 picture thread reminder me how much I like the output I'm seeing from that lens. There's just a pictorial, gentle look to it, the focus falloff just looks excellent and the edges between in-focus and blurred elements has a smooth, organic look to it that I can't quite put my finger on, but it's there. Gotta weigh my options, maybe make some best offers on a couple of them, and be patient. We'll see.

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Old 01-11-2020   #13
Ko.Fe.
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This lens is known for ugly barrel distortions, film and else.
But some have chosen to pretend it doesn't exist. Not sure about Crons to be the same junk, never had them, but my Color Skopars didn't have it, nor J-12 or Ultron 35 1.7, Summarit 35.

Are you smuggling w/o taxes?
Here is USA same day fee shipping for Color Skopar within USA.

https://shop.cameraquest.com/voigtla...r-skopar-lens/

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...5mm_f_2_5.html
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Old 01-11-2020   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
This lens is known for ugly barrel distortions, film and else.
But some have chosen to pretend it doesn't exist. Not sure about Crons to be the same junk, never had them, but my Color Skopars didn't have it, nor J-12 or Ultron 35 1.7, Summarit 35.
Quoting what you have heard. Have you used one?

I use that, the Summicron Asph, the Voigltander 35 2.5 and 1.2 v2 and the Zeiss 35 1.4 ZM.

The Zeiss is by far the best, but also the largest.
The ugly barrel distortions that you claim, w/o having used one, is no less ugly than in the Summicron 35, and guess what? The Color Skopar has it too.

Here is another test by Brad Husick who lined up most of these lenses. Your (and mine) Color Skopar fared amongst the worst:

https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2012/...y-brad-husick/

But guess what? I still have taken pics I really like and have sold with that lens because unless you are taking extreme architectural shots it doesn't matter. Content is what matters.

Here is a shot on film with the 7A 35mm. I don't notice any distortion (I'm sure there is some a with most all lenses) but you read someone mentioned ugly barrel distortion, so I'm sure it's there...

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Old 01-11-2020   #15
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Fuji C200 (I think)



and 1:1 crop:

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Old 01-11-2020   #16
Ko.Fe.
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Huss, I have seen enough bad examples from this lens with barrel distortion before buying it. Even in this thread. I didn't have this bad distortions with Skopars.
I'm not like you, I don't buy just every lens made. And I used my Color Skopars more than you have used all of your lenses, most likely

Oh, and scans enlargements with nothing but grain, what they supposed to proof?
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Old 01-12-2020   #17
agentlossing
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I've decided to go with a cheap Skopar, it will at least get me in the right direction.

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Old 01-12-2020   #18
Huss
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Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Huss, I have seen enough bad examples from this lens with barrel distortion before buying it. Even in this thread. I didn't have this bad distortions with Skopars.
I'm not like you, I don't buy just every lens made. And I used my Color Skopars more than you have used all of your lenses, most likely

Oh, and scans enlargements with nothing but grain, what they supposed to proof?
Yes I'm sure the more you use the Skopar, the less it distorts.


The 1:1 enlargement is a 100% crop of a 8300x5500 scan of the pic above it which, as you have mentioned, shows grain. But it also shows the detail that the 7A pulls - you can see their expression etc. Not bad for $200!
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Old 01-12-2020   #19
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Originally Posted by agentlossing View Post
I've decided to go with a cheap Skopar, it will at least get me in the right direction.

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It's a very nice lens. You're not going to take better pics with more expensive lenses.
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Old 01-12-2020   #20
agentlossing
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
It's a very nice lens. You're not going to take better pics with more expensive lenses.
The description indicates "very light" haze, so I'll have to determine what effect is present in the photos, if any. I got it with a Bessa L, which I'll resell if I can find any buyers, making the net lens purchase fairly cheap.

But my usual method is B&W film developed in DF96 and scanned on an Epson flatbed, very quick and dirty way to get files which I can then fix contrast issues or the like, so I don't think haze (if truly light) will be a killer for me. If I like the lens enough and dislike the effects of haze, I'll find a better copy later on.

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Old 01-13-2020   #21
Travis L.
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A great little lens. The build quality and optical performance are better than I expected for the price.

Mine was also properly calibrated upon arrival.






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Old 01-14-2020   #22
Toastybunzz
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It's a bit soft outside the center at f/2, there's visible distortion (up to you if that bothers you or not) and it flares pretty badly. Mine also needed a slight focus adjustment as it was backfocusing, I only own film M's so I calibrated with film and it only took maybe an hour.

Personally I didn't like it for color, it's kind of low contrast so it looked great with b&w but the Color Skopar will do much better on that front.
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Old 01-14-2020   #23
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Originally Posted by Toastybunzz View Post

Personally I didn't like it for color, it's kind of low contrast so it looked great with b&w but the Color Skopar will do much better on that front.

Hmm, I had no issues using the 7A 35 with kolor film






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Old 01-14-2020   #24
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I think it's clear that the 7artisans is a controversial lens, @Huss is willing to go to bat for it, but I still don't like the focus calibration issues reported, and the distortion is noticeable (although corrected easily enough in PP). I think I will stick with Voigtlander, if for no other reason than aesthetics, on my Voigt body

The range of focal lengths that I like, from 28mm to 40mm, are well represented in Cosina's lineup, especially 35 and 40. The Nokton is quite cheap secondhand, I might pick that up at some point.
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Old 01-14-2020   #25
Toastybunzz
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Hmm, I had no issues using the 7A 35 with kolor film
It's just not to my taste for color, I like the more modern look from my Planar ZM and 35mm Ultron f2. I shot some slide with it as well and it was just okay. I do like the lens though and would recommend it, it's not perfect though.
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Old 01-14-2020   #26
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.. I do like the lens though and would recommend it, it's not perfect though.
Definitely not perfect! My other 35mm lenses that are not perfect:

Summicron Asph 35 f2 - horrible flare protection. Unacceptable at that price point.
CV 35 1.2 v2 - back focuses and big.
ZM 35 1.4 - perfect optics but very long and has a sticky feeling focus helicoil (like all my ZM lenses). Like it is lubricated with syrup not grease.
Summaron 35 3.5/goggles - aperture ring hard to use if using a lens hood (which it needs)
Nikkor 35 1.4 AIS - serious glow at 1.4 (but cool to use for effect)
Zeiss SLii 35mm f2 - poor flare protection, sticky feeling focus ring.
Sigma Art 35mm 1.4 - awesome optics, fantastic focus but humongous

I think there are a couple others but you get the idea.

FYI I love using the 7A 35 on my beater M4-2 as the lens is so cheap (relatively speaking) that it results in uninhibited useage, not fearing damage to a pricey optic. Great results are a bonus.
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Old 01-14-2020   #27
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The 7Artisans 35mm f/2 is a Sonnar design, correct? A bit unusual for a wide-angle lens. Are there any Sonnar fans who've tried and are happy with the 7A?
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Old 01-14-2020   #28
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Originally Posted by Crazy Leica Fox View Post
The 7Artisans 35mm f/2 is a Sonnar design, correct? A bit unusual for a wide-angle lens. Are there any Sonnar fans who've tried and are happy with the 7A?
Not that unusual since its diagram is extremely similar to the CV 35/2.5 and C-Biogon 35/2.8. The later two are almost identical. In this way the 7A is connected to the entire family of small CV lenses (21/4, 25/4, 28/3.5).

They're actually based on the Sonnar-derived, asymmetrical, prewar Biogon, i.e. the original 35/2.8 for Contax. It's confusing since the better known circa 1950 symmetrical design is also called Biogon. So it really depends on in which flavor you'd like to name it. Zeiss for example chose to call the ZM version C-Biogon...
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