What's this stuff on my negs??
Old 07-29-2011   #1
Mr G
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What's this stuff on my negs??

Hi all lovely people,
I'm scanning the last roll I developed and I keep seeing strange spots all over the frame...
To me it looks like it has to do with development rather than a camera issue, but I'd be glad if you could have a look at it and tell me what you think.

Ah..the spots seem to appear in a different position in each frame.

Thanks so much in advance.

g

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Old 07-29-2011   #2
haempe
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Looks like air-bubbles.

What film, developer, agitation?
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Old 07-29-2011   #3
ath
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Might also be water droplets hitting the drying film.
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Old 07-29-2011   #4
Mr G
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it's d76 and tri-x never had a problem with it...
This was a brand new batch of developer I just mixed before developing..mmm I wonder if it has something to do with that.
g
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Old 07-29-2011   #5
haempe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr G View Post
it's d76 and tri-x never had a problem with it...
This was a brand new batch of developer I just mixed before developing..mmm I wonder if it has something to do with that.
g
Powder developer should have some time to rest after mixing.
But I can't say if this is the problem. For me it looks like air-bubbles on the film during development.
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Old 07-29-2011   #6
Mr G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haempe View Post
Powder developer should have some time to rest after mixing.
But I can't say if this is the problem. For me it looks like air-bubbles on the film during development.

it sounds like it might be air bubbles after all...
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Old 07-29-2011   #7
haempe
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I had a similar experience some time ago and since then I take the "bumping the tank on the bottom after every agitation"-thing really seriously.
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Old 07-29-2011   #8
Mr G
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The second roll developed in the same tank doesn't show the same issue.
Maybe being on the bottom of the tank it didn't get affected by the bubbles..??

g
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Old 07-29-2011   #9
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... I always thought inversions would be likely to cause bubbles, so I don't
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Old 07-29-2011   #10
john neal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
... I always thought inversions would be likely to cause bubbles, so I don't
Inversion shouldn't cause bubbles, but may cause "drag", especially around the sprocket holes - depends on your technique
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Old 07-29-2011   #11
bogelgelbo
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I have this problem too if I use the fixer too many times.

Edit: I'm seeing the white spots on the sky and not noticing the bigger darker spots. Yes, my guess is also bubble spots.
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Old 07-29-2011   #12
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could be drying marks or it could be bubbles. Visually check film very carefully. If its on surface of film its drying marks. If its in the film it could be bubbles but could be finger prints (oily deposits on film surface) which retard development. But also a strong possibility as already suggested, is developer which contains miniscule particles of chemical which isn't fully dissolved and have come to rest on film surface. That's why you should leave fresh mixed dev stock from powder for 24 hours before use or filter it before use if you must use it immediately. Those particles will dissolve in that time.

Last edited by tlitody : 07-29-2011 at 05:53.
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Old 07-29-2011   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john neal View Post
Inversion shouldn't cause bubbles, but may cause "drag", especially around the sprocket holes - depends on your technique
I have no proof, as I say, just a idea. Anyway; Personally I've managed without inversions for many years now it no longer matters
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Old 07-29-2011   #14
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Test with your finger if emulsion is thicker in those spots. Sometimes you get coating defects which look just like that, although I don't remember ever seeing them on Tri-X.
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Old 07-30-2011   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
I have no proof, as I say, just a idea. Anyway; Personally I've managed without inversions for many years now it no longer matters
as a beginner in b&w developing, can I ask what you do use for agitation? just light shaking or swirling?

thanks

I have these "bubbles" some times but I thought it was water droplets not drying off properly, like my wetting agent wasn't working correctly...
(i did leave my developer for two days after mixing up a batch so it shouldn't be the powder)
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Old 07-30-2011   #16
Mr G
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Thanks so much for your replies!
Like someone said, I'm now quite positive it's air bubbles.
I've been dealing with water marks every now and then and they look different from what I have now...
On the negs the spots are literally exposed on the neg and not superficial, that's why I was worried about being a light leak...
Also next time I'll wait 24hrs before using the developer...I forgot to say this time I had a hard time getting the powder of d76 to dissolve properly.

cheers

g

Last edited by Mr G : 07-30-2011 at 18:55.
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Old 07-30-2011   #17
Leigh Youdale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kosta_g View Post
as a beginner in b&w developing, can I ask what you do use for agitation? just light shaking or swirling?
"Light shaking"? Ye gods!
There are many and varied methods but a good "standard" method is what Ilford recommend. I don't think "light shaking" is in there, anywhere.

The following agitation is recommended for spiral tank processing with ILFORD chemicals. Invert the tank four times during the first 10 seconds. Repeat these four inversions during the first 10 seconds of each subsequent minute of development. At the end of each agitation sequence tap the tank firmly on the work bench to dislodge any air bubbles which may be trapped in the processing spiral. This method of agitation should also be used with the fixer.
Drain off the developer 10 seconds before the end of the development time immediately fill the tank with the next process solution.
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Old 07-30-2011   #18
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The white spots just look like normal dust, but the dark spots almost appear is if granules from the D-76 weren't fully dissolved and over-developed the film where they made contact. The air bubble theory is also a good one, but why would they be so concentrated in one edge of the frame like that?

I know that D-76 has to be mixed at a pretty high temp, so it's always a good idea to give it a day to come down, and make sure everything has been dissolved as well. If it were me, I would make another batch at the recommended mixing temperature, give it 24 hours to come down, and check that it's ALL dissolved before using. If the problem doesn't repeat, that might be your answer.
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Old 07-31-2011   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithdunlop View Post
... the dark spots almost appear is if granules from the D-76 weren't fully dissolved and over-developed the film where they made contact.
Nah, Keith. Partially over-development will give bright spots ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by keithdunlop View Post
The air bubble theory is also a good one, but why would they be so concentrated in one edge of the frame like that?
I guess the spots are over the complete frame, but only visible in the uniform area of the heaven...
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Old 07-31-2011   #20
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Was the water hard? Sometimes the sulfite in the D-76 in hard water causes insoluble granules. I know also (while mixing the D-76 from formula) metol is very hard to dissolve once sulfite is dissolved first.

Better, let the solution wait some hours before using. In case of hard water used, just filter it with coffee filter and when you pour the developer in, tap the tank gently on the bench a few times against air bubbles.
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Old 07-31-2011   #21
ColSebastianMoran
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Completely different and wild guess... Mould grew on the emulsion. Washed out a shallow "crater" during processing, creating a darker spot on the print. Wild guess...
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Old 07-31-2011   #22
Mr G
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Bob, I always use demineralized water for my d76 solution.
Did I mention that the second roll I developed in the same tank at the same time came out fine?
I can't remember if it was in the upper or lower spiral tho...

g
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Old 07-31-2011   #23
BobYIL
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Weird.. Also if you neglect to tap such tiny air bubbles can accumulate in any reel, top or bottom. Next time let the developer wait some hours before using. Then check it if you would see floating flakes or granules settled at the bottom. If you see any, filter it and then use, by not forgetting to tap the tank a couple of times.

For developing two or more films especially in longer tanks I may recommend to pre-soak in water first for a short period enough to tap as long as you feel sure of getting rid of the bubbles, then replace the water with the developer and perform normal processing.

Last edited by BobYIL : 07-31-2011 at 13:24.
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Old 08-01-2011   #24
Mr G
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Bob, thanks...
I will pre soak next time as you said.
Also, I did tap but not consistently... anyway I just finished developing another roll and it's perfect, this time I tapped like crazy =)

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Old 08-01-2011   #25
Chris101
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Definitely bubbles - I have seen the exact same thing before. You said that you made the D76 and used it right away. Heating the developer and mixing the powder also dissolves air in the water. The bubbles form as the water 'outgasses'. Try this, fill a glass with hot water, and then let it cool. Look at the surface of the glass - see the bubbles? Same thing. That is why it is a good idea to let freshly mixed developer sit for an hour or so to get rid of the dissolved air as much as is possible.
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Old 08-01-2011   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris101 View Post
Definitely bubbles - I have seen the exact same thing before. You said that you made the D76 and used it right away. Heating the developer and mixing the powder also dissolves air in the water. The bubbles form as the water 'outgasses'. Try this, fill a glass with hot water, and then let it cool. Look at the surface of the glass - see the bubbles? Same thing. That is why it is a good idea to let freshly mixed developer sit for an hour or so to get rid of the dissolved air as much as is possible.
So true! Even the raise of temperature may cause them... The tiny bubbles are to see in solutions waiting in such warm days after long periods, they accumulate on the walls of the bottles. I saw them several times... Probably temperature changes causing the air dissolved in water be released..
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Old 08-02-2011   #27
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OK, first post after lurking for a while

I just scanned a roll of Rollei Retro 100 with the same "white spot" issue. In fact, I was just going to make a post about it when I saw this.. Good to know what they are, the negs look almost like there are little "pits" in the emulsion and of course the while spots are very time consuming to fix in post.

Developed it in Rodinal 1+50, and thought I paid real good attention to smacking the tank on the floor (my bathroom is small, OK ) after every agitation. I'm always afraid of breaking it (early 1980s vintage Paterson tank) but perhaps I should try smacking it harder.
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Old 08-02-2011   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffak View Post
OK, first post after lurking for a while

I just scanned a roll of Rollei Retro 100 with the same "white spot" issue. In fact, I was just going to make a post about it when I saw this.. Good to know what they are, the negs look almost like there are little "pits" in the emulsion and of course the while spots are very time consuming to fix in post.

Developed it in Rodinal 1+50, and thought I paid real good attention to smacking the tank on the floor (my bathroom is small, OK ) after every agitation. I'm always afraid of breaking it (early 1980s vintage Paterson tank) but perhaps I should try smacking it harder.
Try slapping it on the side.
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Old 08-04-2011   #29
Mr G
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Chris thanks!
I used the developer again after a couple of days and no more bubbles...

cheers

g
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