Focomat condenser question
Old 04-26-2018   #1
megido
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Focomat condenser question

I'm looking to replace the condenser in my 1c. I have found what looks like a clean example which has 'N' stamped on the barrel. I'm assuming this is to denote anti newton glass. Could anyone confirm this?
Thank you in advance
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Old 04-26-2018   #2
Erik van Straten
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Leica literature from the seventies tells me that the 17 652 "N" condensor of the Focomat Ic needs the special Anti-Newton-disk with the 3mm spacing ring, so in itself it is not an anti-Newton device.

These disks are hard to find.

Maybe you can try to install a condensor from a Valoy II, these have an anti-newton condensor, recognizable by the matted pressure surface. The Valoy II can be found very cheap.

Erik.
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Old 04-30-2018   #3
M.Hilo
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I have always wondered what the N stands for, and have always (jokingly) called it North !

But Erik is correct in saying this does not denote anything to do with AN glass. All 1c condensers are clear and need the dedicated AN glass with the spacer.

It is easy to fabricate something to prevent Newton rings, from black carton or black pvc sheet . . .

The Valoy II condenser won't fit, it is quite a bit smaller.
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Old 04-30-2018   #4
Erik van Straten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Hilo View Post

The Valoy II condenser won't fit, it is quite a bit smaller.
Apart from the autofocus, the Focomat Ic and the Valoy II are about the same enlarger. Both are now available for silly prices, at least in my country. If I were you I would look for a late Valoy II (grey head with a red nameplate) and forget about the anti-newton-adapter. The condensor of the later Valoy II is anti-newton.

When you lift the top of the lamphouse, you'll see the top of the condensor-housing. When you use filters, you can simply put them there. I have done this for many years.

The Valoy II works great with an EL-Nikkor 50mm f/2.8. This fast lens is easier to focus than a Focotar f/4,5.

Erik.
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Old 04-30-2018   #5
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Thank you for your help. I have found someone offering the said AN ring but with 2 not 1 spacer. Is this correct? I always thought the AN ring needed just one spacer to adjust for the difference in height once the ring is installed.
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Old 04-30-2018   #6
Erik van Straten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megido View Post
Thank you for your help. I have found someone offering the said AN ring but with 2 not 1 spacer. Is this correct? I always thought the AN ring needed just one spacer to adjust for the difference in height once the ring is installed.
Maybe there is a difference between different models. I would say: better to have two than one.

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Old 04-30-2018   #7
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I have the last model with white base board and filter tray. Erik, do you have any price lists or info mentioning 2 spacers?
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Old 04-30-2018   #8
Erik van Straten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Hilo View Post
I have always wondered what the N stands for,
Maybe it means "new" or "neu" and indicate that they will not fit the really old Leitz enlargers. These are very old and date back from 1932.

Erik.
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Old 04-30-2018   #9
Erik van Straten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megido View Post
I have the last model with white base board and filter tray. Erik, do you have any price lists or info mentioning 2 spacers?
I have a catalogue from 1976, about the time the Ic was discontinued. Only one "Zwischenring für Beleuchtungslinse N" is mentioned, 17 652.

Erik.
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Old 04-30-2018   #10
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Thank you Erik, very helpful as always. Maybe just one of the rings will be sufficient for my late 1c. I would consider using a Valoy as you do ie: putting filters in the lamp house but the 1c filter tray is so convenient especially for split grade printing. Did you ever try to use the valoy condenser in the 1c?
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Old 04-30-2018   #11
Erik van Straten
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When doing split grade printing the drawer is very convenient. Take care that the enlarger does not move when changing filters.

Personally I do not have a Ic, but I've worked quite a lot on them. I now only have a Valoy II and a Focomat IIc. I only use the IIc nowadays.

Split grade is not possible with a Valoy II because there is a risk that the enlarger moves when changing filters.

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Old 04-30-2018   #12
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So the IIc will not move when changing filters?
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Old 04-30-2018   #13
Erik van Straten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megido View Post
So the IIc will not move when changing filters?
No, the enlarger is extremely heavy, but the filter drawer moves ultra smooth. This enlarger is very sturdy and rigid, but moves very smooth. Really a wonderful thing.

Split grade printing is no problem at all.

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Old 04-30-2018   #14
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The Focomat 1c came standard with a very thin (at the most half a millimeter) ring for the condenser to rest on. The AN glass was optional and so was its 3mm spacer ring.

Megido, it is very easy to miss the thin spacer ring and I would not be surprised it's there in your enlarger. Take out the condenser and feel the ridge with your fingers.

I have seen many 1c's with both rings. When people use the 3 millimeter ring they just leave the thin spacer there too . . . I do too.

Between my spare Focomat parts I have a new in the box AN glass and it includes the 3mm spacer ring. Both packed in separate plastic bags. That's how it was sold.

Placing filters on the condenser works fine of course, but I don't like it as you bring inside extra dust. Also, with the 1c it is easy to move the bulb system out of its alignment. Other people use my enlargers and taking the top half off is not something I would let them do.

The filter trays are great and, like Erik says, the 2c filter tray operates the smoothest. Partly because you pull it towards you, not push it sideways like with the 1c. If the tray of your 1c is not easy to push out, have a look why that is. Many times a ridge by the inside of the slot needs to be pushed a bit, or a bit of Vaseline will help.

Finally, once you do get the AN glass set up, be careful with one thing: when taking out the condenser for occasional cleaning FIRST remove the AN glass. If you don't it will fall down when you pull up the condenser and generally it falls on the pins of your negative mask . . .
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Old 04-30-2018   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Hilo View Post

Placing filters on the condenser works fine of course, but I don't like it as you bring inside extra dust. Also, with the 1c it is easy to move the bulb system out of its alignment. Other people use my enlargers and taking the top half off is not something I would let them do.
All very true. However, the bulb fixing system inside a Valoy II is more solid than the three small screws on a Ic, but the Valoy II needs a small bulb; these are hard to get without a stamping facing downward.

Erik.
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Old 05-01-2018   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Hilo View Post
The Focomat 1c came standard with a very thin (at the most half a millimeter) ring for the condenser to rest on. The AN glass was optional and so was its 3mm spacer ring. .
Hilo, thank you for this very helpful info. This explains the '2 spacer' query. The thin spacer being a standard part of the 1c and the 3mm being a part if the AN glass kit. I seem to be missing the former. I'm not with the 1c at the moment but I seem to recall that the condenser in my 1c sits in the lamp housing without the thin spacer. I will check.
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Old 05-01-2018   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
All very true. However, the bulb fixing system inside a Valoy II is more solid than the three small screws on a Ic, but the Valoy II needs a small bulb; these are hard to get without a stamping facing downward.

Erik.
Erik, just out of curiosity, which bulb do you use that gives even illumination with the Valoy?
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Old 05-01-2018   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megido View Post
Erik, just out of curiosity, which bulb do you use that gives even illumination with the Valoy?
I used a Philips Photocrescenta 75 watt. I do not think these are still available (but some dealers will have them in stock). However, these bulbs are in fact too big for a Valoy; the illumination is quite uneven. A Valoy needs a small round bulb, not a pear-shaped one. I never was been able to surface one of those, one of the reasons that I bought a Focomat IIc about fifteen years ago.

Erik.
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Old 05-01-2018   #19
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Basically we had short neck and long neck opal bulbs, in 75 and 150 watt. The short neck bulbs worked well in the Valoy II and the long neck in the 1c and 2c.

Probably somewhere in the eighties the short neck bulbs were phased out and they became difficult to find. Not impossible, I have a good number of spares.

I only use the 150 watt bulbs, this because I print a lot 50X60 (20X24). For smaller sizes the 75watt will be fine.

The good news: Dr. Fisher since last year is making the short versions again. For sure in 150 watt and I imagine also in 75 watt. They are phasing out the long neck versions, which I believe to be a good choice as the short neck bulbs should work in all enlargers. I have asked the opinion of some people and this is the general consensus.

The difference is roughly 1cm in length: 10cm short neck and 11 cm long neck. You will need to check with your supplier what they have in stock . . . If I remember well, buying from Fisher direct is possible.
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Old 05-01-2018   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
I used a Philips Photocrescenta 75 watt. I do not think these are still available (but some dealers will have them in stock). However, these bulbs are in fact too big for a Valoy; the illumination is quite uneven. A Valoy needs a small round bulb, not a pear-shaped one. I never was been able to surface one of those, one of the reasons that I bought a Focomat IIc about fifteen years ago.

Erik.
Did you find the Valoy unusable with the Philips bulb due to uneven illumination?
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Old 05-01-2018   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megido View Post
Did you find the Valoy unusable with the Philips bulb due to uneven illumination?
In fact I used it for quite some time. With dense, contrasty negatives there was not much of a problem; but thin, soft negatives where difficult. They became too dark in the center or too light in the corners (I always print the whole negative, I never crop.)

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Old 05-01-2018   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Hilo View Post
The good news: Dr. Fisher since last year is making the short versions again. For sure in 150 watt and I imagine also in 75 watt. They are phasing out the long neck versions, which I believe to be a good choice as the short neck bulbs should work in all enlargers.
This is indeed good news. In the Focomats you can raise or lower the bulb; in the Valoy II you cannot. I hope that for the users of the Valoy II the bulbs are short enough now; otherwise they can look for a Focomat Ic. These are incredibly low priced today, they cost less than a box of 100 sheets of ADOX MCC 110 18x24cm paper (in The Netherlands that is).

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Old 05-01-2018   #23
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Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
This is indeed good news. In the Focomats you can raise or lower the bulb; in the Valoy II you cannot. I hope that for the users of the Valoy II the bulbs are short enough now. Erik.
Yes, these bulbs are fine in the Valoy II. I made a test printing one negative on both the 1c and the Valoy II on 50X60 paper. Everything totally fine with regards to even illumination.

Small difference in the contrast and one large difference: the 1c print needed 70 seconds exposure, the Valoy II print 50 seconds. This could be because of a couple of reasons, or a combination. First, the bulb in the Valoy II sits closer to the negative and second, the new smaller Fisher bulbs do not look as white opal as the ones I am used to. Also the different condensers may play a role . . .

Whichever it is, the prints are both fine and A prints.

ps I have modified a Valoy II to reach that size.
ps attached both Fisher bulbs, short and long . . .
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Opal bulbs short & long.jpg (153.1 KB, 7 views)
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Old 05-02-2018   #24
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This is great news. Thank you
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Old 05-02-2018   #25
Erik van Straten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Hilo View Post
Yes, these bulbs are fine in the Valoy II. I made a test printing one negative on both the 1c and the Valoy II on 50X60 paper. Everything totally fine with regards to even illumination.

Small difference in the contrast and one large difference: the 1c print needed 70 seconds exposure, the Valoy II print 50 seconds. This could be because of a couple of reasons, or a combination. First, the bulb in the Valoy II sits closer to the negative and second, the new smaller Fisher bulbs do not look as white opal as the ones I am used to. Also the different condensers may play a role . . .

Whichever it is, the prints are both fine and A prints.

ps I have modified a Valoy II to reach that size.
ps attached both Fisher bulbs, short and long . . .
Yes, looks great, I too have a Valoy II with a looong column. How can I get one of those lamps?

Erik.
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Old 05-02-2018   #26
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Yes, looks great, I too have a Valoy II with a looong column. How can I get one of those lamps?

Erik.
I sent an email to Dr Fischer today and received a reply asking for more details re the bulb. I did explain the application, wattage and size but maybe a photo of the bulb above will be more clarification. They also asked for my company details so maybe they are wholesale only.
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Old 05-02-2018   #27
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http://www.dr-fischer-group.com/en/
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Old 05-02-2018   #28
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Thank you, I think we can find our lamps here:

http://www.dr-fischer-group.com/en/p...&pa=cat&ca=All

I guess this is great for a Valoy II:

230V 100W E27/27 A.60x104 coated

Not far from Wetzlar I guess:

Speziallampenfabrik DR. FISCHER GmbH
Nikolaus-Otto-Straße 3 - 5
65582 Diez/Lahn, Germany

P: +49 (0) 6432/91 31 - 0
F: +49 (0) 6432/62 06 - 9
M: [email protected]



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Old 05-02-2018   #29
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Been searching in my emails with a friend in Germany who got some for me, and in emails with Fisher. Not very successful yet.

But I think I was premature to say you can order directly from Fisher. I have asked the friend where he got them . . .

Erik, Foto den Boer can surely order them for you . . .
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Old 05-02-2018   #30
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Erik, Foto den Boer can surely order them for you . . .
Yes, I think Foto Fransen too. I will ask them. Thank you!

Erik.
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Old 05-02-2018   #31
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I'm waiting for a reply re accepting direct orders.
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Old 05-02-2018   #32
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This is where my friend in Germany bought them

http://techno-film.de/
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Old 05-02-2018   #33
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This is where my friend in Germany bought them
As far as I can see has Techno Film no lamps from Dr. Fischer.

Erik.
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Old 05-02-2018   #34
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You are correct, I also just saw that. Fotoimpex in Berlin does have them, both 75 and 150 watt

https://www.fotoimpex.de/shopen/dark...b-75-watt.html
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Old 05-02-2018   #35
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You are correct, I also just saw that. Fotoimpex in Berlin does have them, both 75 and 150 watt

https://www.fotoimpex.de/shopen/dark...b-75-watt.html
I am afraid that this is a large one. I've sent an e-mail to Fotoimpex to ask. The short ones only are 75w and 100w, not 150w

Erik.
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Old 05-02-2018   #36
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The one on the left in my picture of a previous post is short and 150 watt !

Perhaps the different orange instead-of-dark-blue lettering indicates the last smaller versions
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Old 05-02-2018   #37
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I am afraid that this is a large one. I've sent an e-mail to Fotoimpex to ask. The short ones only are 75w and 100w, not 150w

Erik.
Please let us know the answer from Fotoimpex. I'm looking to order a short 75w
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Old 05-02-2018   #38
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If they do not answer, I'll try to contact Dr. Fischer themselves and ask them were we can order the short ones. I will give the results here.

Erik.
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Old 05-02-2018   #39
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The one on the left in my picture of a previous post is short and 150 watt !
http://www.dr-fischer-group.com/en/p...&pa=cat&ca=All

On this page there are only small ones from 100w and 75w. (60x104)

Erik.
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Old 05-02-2018   #40
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If they do not answer, I'll try to contact Dr. Fischer themselves and ask them were we can order the short ones. I will give the results here.

Erik.
I will do the same if I receive a reply.
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