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Low Light, Digital Cameras & Curiosity ....
Old 01-03-2020   #1
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Low Light, Digital Cameras & Curiosity ....

although I shoot anytime of the day
my Favorite Time is late afternoon into the Night...

so my Question is, shooting Digital
which Sensors/Cameras seem to hold up to the Task
aside from a faaaast lens

look forward to your Suggestions and Photos proving your Point
Thanks in Advance
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Old 01-03-2020   #2
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What sort of digital cameras are you looking at? Mirrorless, DSLR, compact?
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Old 01-03-2020   #3
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I’m using my."".........................

Yup.

Nope.

Maybe.
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Old 01-03-2020   #4
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This may be helpful.

http://fixthephoto.com/best-low-light-camera.html
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Old 01-03-2020   #5
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You can hardly go wrong with any camera from the past 4 years or more , but only last leica M10 can realy compete with other modern cameras in this regard . There is plenty of pretty good low light street m10 raw photo samples on Dpreview.
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Old 01-03-2020   #6
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I just cannot picture you toting around a dslr. (I was gonna say a Df because the files are so malleable it is crazy.)

Maybe a newer no mirror kit???
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Old 01-03-2020   #7
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I'm quite liking the Nikon Z7, though I haven't explored the outer reaches of high ISO/extremely low light yet. Seems to focus ok in the low light that I have tested, though it's still early days. The Z lenses are amazing.

ISO 1600:

New Year's Riley Z7 by Vince Lupo, on Flickr
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Old 01-03-2020   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince Lupo View Post
I'm quite liking the Nikon Z7, though I haven't explored the outer reaches of high ISO/extremely low light yet. Seems to focus ok in the low light that I have tested, though it's still early days. The Z lenses are amazing.

ISO 1600:
New Year's Riley Z7 by Vince Lupo, on Flickr
This almost seems too sharp , too detailed . I do sometimes like to revisit files from my older days and appreciate imperfections here and there for a change.
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Old 01-03-2020   #9
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Probably a mirrorless Lumix with a stabilized lens. (the camera body has a stabilizer, too)

I use an Olympus E-M10 III with the 17/1.8. (35 mm eq. field of view) The in-body stabilization is worth 3 stops and the images look great up to ISO 3200, so I can get away with MURDER.

The Panasonic 20/1.7 was also great and less expensive, but a lot slower focusing.

It's not as good as something with a full frame sensor, but it's a lot more affordable and a lot more compact, too.
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Old 01-03-2020   #10
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In general, the FF DSLR's should be the best candidates for low light photography. If a DSLR is out of the question, then you should probably look at the FF MILCs, especially the Nikon Z6/Z7.

My Nikon FF DSLR's are much better in low light than my Fuji X-T2, but the Fuji is not bad. Also, I may pick up an X-Pro3 -- it's better in low light than my X-T2 and the X-Pro3's RF body style is really cool. In fact, the X-Pro3 is what I'd recommend for you.

Here's one from the X-T2 (Taken at La Rambla, Barcelona)

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Old 01-03-2020   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michalm View Post
This almost seems too sharp , too detailed . I do sometimes like to revisit files from my older days and appreciate imperfections here and there for a change.
I can always kick it out of focus for you if you prefer - maybe add some banding too?
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Old 01-03-2020   #12
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Quote:
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I can always kick it out of focus for you if you prefer - maybe add some banding too?
Just turn Electronic First Curtain Shutter off or introduce a little camera shake , banding has never been in fashion.
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Old 01-03-2020   #13
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I’m using my iPhone more and more.
We know....
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Old 01-03-2020   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michalm View Post
Just turn Electronic First Curtain Shutter off or introduce a little camera shake , banding has never been in fashion.
I’ll give it a try
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Old 01-03-2020   #15
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The Olympus PenF is a sexy little beastie (especially in black) and the B&w film modes will bring the moody that you want.

With FF digi cams the lower MP versions are better in low light. Z6 is better than Z7, Sony A7 S (12mp?) is better than the huge MP R versions etc.
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Old 01-03-2020   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michalm View Post
Just turn Electronic First Curtain Shutter off or introduce a little camera shake , banding has never been in fashion.
Just tried ISO 6400, 24-70/2.8 wide open. Hopefully a little less 'perfect'


NYT Z7
by Vince Lupo, on Flickr

Love this camera -- if you don't need 45.7mp you could always go for the Z6 instead.
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Old 01-03-2020   #17
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Digitals in general handle low light better than film. Any of the better models made within the last 8-10 years that can now be bought for a fraction of their original prices are more than acceptable for ISO 3200 or more. Generally full frame models are better than smaller formats although many APS-C cameras do really well. Some of the more recent mirrorless and DSLRs are amazing.

I don't own any of the newest models. My Fuji XPro2 and Nikon D810 are my newest old cameras and both are really good in low light. Even my Nikon D700 from around 2008 does well. But I prefer working with good and abundant light.
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Old 01-03-2020   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince Lupo View Post
Just tried ISO 6400, 24-70/2.8 wide open. Hopefully a little less 'perfect'


NYT Z7
by Vince Lupo, on Flickr

Love this camera -- if you don't need 45.7mp you could always go for the Z6 instead.
This is very nice i like the light and texture noise creates . How did you process this , is it straightforward raw conversion or did you add some sliver efex flavour to it?
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Old 01-03-2020   #19
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Shot RAW, then initially processed in ACR. Selective burning and dodging in PhotoShop CC. A bit of Silver Efex Pro 2 - shifted into negative clarity with both mids and shadows, into the positive with the highlights. So I emphasized the highs, de-emphasized the mids and shadows. Whole thing took about 10 minutes.

Nice thing about using a camera like this is that you’d have a good ‘base’ from which to start (assuming your exposure and focus is on the money). Kind of like having a great quality ‘master’ to start with, and it enables you to work with it in a lot of different ways. I like flexibility - particularly nice when your shooting in low light situations. Having old school darkroom experience helps too
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Old 01-03-2020   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince Lupo View Post
Shot RAW, then initially processed in ACR. Selective burning and dodging in PhotoShop CC. A bit of Silver Efex Pro 2 - shifted into negative clarity with both mids and shadows, into the positive with the highlights. So I emphasized the highs, de-emphasized the mids and shadows. Whole thing took about 10 minutes.

Nice thing about using a camera like this is that you’d have a good ‘base’ from which to start. Kind of like having a great quality ‘master’ to start with, and it enables you to work with it in a lot of different ways. I like flexibility - particularly nice when your shooting in low light situations. Having old school darkroom experience helps too
Damn dood, I’m just point camera, push button, oh look a photo!
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Old 01-03-2020   #21
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Damn dood, I’m just point camera, push button, oh look a photo!
As some famous photographer once said - the negative is the score, the print the performance!
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Old 01-03-2020   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince Lupo View Post
Shot RAW, then initially processed in ACR. Selective burning and dodging in PhotoShop CC. A bit of Silver Efex Pro 2 - shifted into negative clarity with both mids and shadows, into the positive with the highlights. So I emphasized the highs, de-emphasized the mids and shadows. Whole thing took about 10 minutes.

Nice thing about using a camera like this is that you’d have a good ‘base’ from which to start (assuming your exposure and focus is on the money). Kind of like having a great quality ‘master’ to start with, and it enables you to work with it in a lot of different ways. I like flexibility - particularly nice when your shooting in low light situations. Having old school darkroom experience helps too
Darkroom expierience shows here all right. Z7 will give you a lot more headroom in terms of highlights adjustment in comparison to Leica in my view. I'm looking forward to see more BW z7 pictures .
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Old 01-03-2020   #23
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Darkroom expierience shows here all right. Z7 will give you a lot more headroom in terms of highlights adjustment in comparison to Leica in my view. I'm looking forward to see more BW z7 pictures .
If you look in the ‘Nikon Mirrorless’ section you’ll see a thread I started.

Sorry for temporarily hijacking this thread. Helen I like the Z6/Z7 option. Over and out....
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Old 01-03-2020   #24
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hold a old rd1 in your hands for a few minutes...shoot in black & white...advance the 'film' lever, put a nice small leica 35 on the mount...

i predict heaven for helen.



https://www.flickr.com/photos/back_a...57614738057877
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Old 01-03-2020   #25
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Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
although I shoot anytime of the day
my Favorite Time is late afternoon into the Night...

so my Question is, shooting Digital
which Sensors/Cameras seem to hold up to the Task
aside from a faaaast lens

look forward to your Suggestions and Photos proving your Point
Thanks in Advance
Remember with digital it isn't just the speed that is an advantage but also the possibility of stabilization.

Any of the BSI Sony A7 series (I think A7RII and up) are incredible in low light. And when paired with DXO PhotoLab 3 Prime noise reduction can give clean shots at very high ISO.

AND you also gain image stabilization which will work with any lenses (including adapted). In that case you may not need the high ISO for some subjects. You can drop shutter 3 to 5 stops lower and still be sharp hand held.

Downside is their lousy menus but once setup (and buttons assigned for functions you want) you don't have to go into them much.

Fuji cameras (X Trans 3 and up) handle high ISO fine. And given your use of B&W I think you would like their Acros film simulation. Esp. as I think I read that you are a JPEG shooter. With ACROS you can go really high. ISO 25,600 SOOC.



Fuji also has the benefit of traditional controls and an optical viewfinder if desired on the XPro and X100 models. Downside is most don't have image stabilization in body and mainly their zooms have stabilization in lens. If you use them with adapted lenses there is a 1.5x crop factor with most *unless* you use a speed booster type of adapter which gives you the typical FOV and gains you about a stop of light.

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Old 01-03-2020   #26
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Shawn are you suggesting an XPro3?
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Old 01-03-2020   #27
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Here no problem to find digital camera which does the job above daylight iso 1600.
Or just moderate low light iso 6400.
It is all about handling.
I have iso 12800 capable camera since 2009, but it doesn’t feel sensational in use.
I could get Sony A7s ii or 6D Canon (cheap beast of the darkness), but handling turns me off.
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Old 01-03-2020   #28
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Fuji X Pro 2 or 3 (if willing to purchase Fuji lenses) or for a fixed lens camera x100F or the upcoming x100V. Wonder if the x100v is going to go in the same direction as the XP3?

For adapting existing lenses the A7RII is quite the camera.

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Old 01-03-2020   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentlossing View Post
What sort of digital cameras are you looking at? Mirrorless, DSLR, compact?
For Film , I am strictly Leica or Nikon RF

For Digital , I am open to possibilities... it's all about Beautiful rendering, 'sensor' drawing, very personal, I know
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Old 01-03-2020   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Clark View Post
I’m using my iPhone more and more.

Here is a pano I made recently at night, hand held, with my iPhone 6s:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
I don't know Bill, can't seem to feel comfortable using my Iphone for everyday shooting
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Old 01-03-2020   #31
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Quote:
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Thanks for that 'Austintatious'
atdmittedly looking at photos shot by cameras is more of a turn on...but it gives me a few cameras to look at on flickriver...Thank You
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Old 01-03-2020   #32
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Lovely shots Vince... Love both versions of Riley.
really love the last NYTimes version, Adore the hand in texture, light and tone, the fuzz of the wool in the top of the seating
The beauty of the light across the paper, beautiful
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Old 01-03-2020   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by back alley View Post
hold a old rd1 in your hands for a few minutes...shoot in black & white...advance the 'film' lever, put a nice small leica 35 on the mount...

i predict heaven for helen.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/back_a...57614738057877
may be some truth to that Joe
Found an old RD1 photo I took of Eric with the 50Summilux... back in 2008
did Grand that camera and lens, very atmospheric




a night Portrait
by Helen Hill, on Flickr
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Old 01-03-2020   #34
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very nice portrait of your son (?) Shawn

I love Fuji too... had X100F, yum to acros simulation !
enjoyed the XE2, XT2

I do shoot in raw too

Enjoyed the Ricohs GR 1, 2 GR III but did not like the small size
like a real body in my hands
hence got bored with Leica X1 and X2 , Leica T... beautiful rendering though


would like to settle down with some digi

Have never tried a Sony 7 variation
nor
Nikon digital
nor
Monochrom, M240, M10
found the Leica Q to be fast and lovely but would not want to settle with just a 28mm
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Old 01-03-2020   #35
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My experience shooting low light at slow shutter speeds is that a viewfinder that doesn’t blackout is a big advantage.

There is an almost automatic flinch when you loose your visual reference.
Unfortunately DSLR cameras and all electronic viewfinders seem to suffer this problem. I tried an experiment with my D800E to see how slow I could hand hold. Not all that slow, but when I put a finder in the hot shoe and used that instead of looking through the lens things improved considerably.

For a reasonable price digital I’d probably look at Fuji, an X100 or X-Pro.

One place where having a direct view is really helpful is on panning shots.
I just uploaded 3 panning photos to my gallery here. These were shot using M Leicas and 90mm lens. Speeds were down around 1/15 second and I used the corner of rangefinder patch as a sight to track the subjects. It works very well to isolate a moving subject from a busy background.

And people say you can’t use a rangefinder for action. The horse photo was wide open on pushed high speed Ektachrome and won money in an international competition. The bike shots were stopped way down on slow film to get slow enough shutter speed.

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Old 01-03-2020   #36
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interesting 'kxl' Keith, that your fuji does not hold up as well in low light
You prefer your nikon
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Old 01-03-2020   #37
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stupid question
but do you really 'need' stabilization
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Old 01-03-2020   #38
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shot Eric with the Leica T at 3200 , I like the 'feel', the look


wondering
by Helen Hill, on Flickr
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Old 01-03-2020   #39
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Quote:
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My experience shooting low light at slow shutter speeds is that a viewfinder that doesn’t blackout is a big advantage.

There is an almost automatic flinch when you loose your visual reference.
Unfortunately DSLR cameras and all electronic viewfinders seem to suffer this problem. I tried an experiment with my D800E to see how slow I could hand hold. Not all that slow, but when I put a finder in the hot shoe and used that instead of looking through the lens things improved considerably.

For a reasonable price digital I’d probably look at Fuji, an X100 or X-Pro.

One place where having a direct view is really helpful is on panning shots.
I just uploaded 3 panning photos to my gallery here. These were shot using M Leicas and 90mm lens. Speeds were down around 1/15 second and I used the corner of rangefinder patch as a sight to track the subjects. It works very well to isolate a moving subject from a busy background.


Glenn
Totally agree with both points.

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Old 01-03-2020   #40
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You do if camera and object in focus are still.
Very impressive difference if you like it sharp.

Q is better than R-d1. It gives frame lines with 35 and 50mm with file still larger than r-d1.
The only real failure of Q is fake manual focus scale. I was set close on Q, but this design defect turned me off.
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