Summicron 50mm M
Old 01-30-2020   #1
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,577
Summicron 50mm M

Which version would you buy?
Is the Rigid Summicron inferior to more modern versions?
Which is your favorite Summicron M 50mm ?
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #2
Doug
Moderator
 
Doug's Avatar
 
Doug is offline
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central Washington, USA
Posts: 13,420
Objectively (heh heh) the APO 50mm is surely the "best". It's the one I choose.
__________________
Doug’s Gallery
RFF on Facebook
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #3
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,577
It costs more than $2000.
This happens to be my budget now.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #4
Ccoppola82
Registered User
 
Ccoppola82 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 415
I still love the rigid. It’s good enough for me that I don’t think a newer version would add much for me
__________________
Leica M2/M6
Hasselblad 500CM

Instagram
Coppola_Art
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #5
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,577
I line this comment! I feel pretty much the same way as my mist modern Leica 50mm lens is a rigid Summicron. I am curious if later versions really are much better somehow.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #6
Montag
Registered User
 
Montag is offline
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 63
My most modern version (v5) focuses closer (0.7m) than the 1m of my type 1 rigid. The colour representation is more accurate and vivid as well. I like both. All 50mm lenses are good, all the 50mm lenses is the best
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #7
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 8,102
For what? I went from Collaprible through all to type 4 formula (same as 5).
Collapsible was amazing on bw film, after it... just no name lenses. Well, type 3 is more less OK.
Starting from Rigid I was checking focus shift on M-E. Type 4 was worse, 3 is less, Rigid was the best. But Planar 50 ZM simply has none.
On digital Rigid was showing nice retro colors, but not too much of the retro and it was sharp.
Type 4 was best lens for color on M-E.
Type 3 is close to it.
I liked Rigid on C-41 and E6, it has very special sharp, but gentle rendering. Type 3 and 4 were also good. But less sharp.
Type 4 has crappy flare or vail.
I didn't CLA'd collapsible, it came cleaned from known good person. Rigid, type 3 and 4... I'm not impressed how they were made. Rigid is OK, but 3 and 4...

So, after using all of them, except APO and DR (same formula with Rigid), I would answer - collapsible for BW film, Rigid for color film and digital M.

PS. Here is thread on RFF, showing Clrons 50 focus shifts and vail is also known. So, it is not just me. Same for type 4 been sterile lens on BW film, but it is on rangefinder.ru
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #8
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,577
There is a v5 Summicron for sale. It is titanium finish.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #9
Brianmc86
Registered User
 
Brianmc86 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 21
I first bought a collapsible Summicron M and loved it. Then read that the Rigid & DR Summicrons are better, so I bought a DR Summicron and loved it too. And now I'm reading that the V4/V5 Summicron are even better than Rigid/DR Summicrons, so I guess I need to buy that too. The quest for the best continues...
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #10
Brianmc86
Registered User
 
Brianmc86 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montag View Post
My most modern version (v5) focuses closer (0.7m) than the 1m of my type 1 rigid. The colour representation is more accurate and vivid as well. I like both. All 50mm lenses are good, all the 50mm lenses is the best
I believe one benefit of a Rigid is the ability to unscrew the top portion of the lens and attach it to a close focusing mount to get focusing down to ~0.5m. I have one of the SOOKY-M's for my collapsible Summicron and I've always wondered if the V5 can also unscrew and work on the SOOKY-M
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #11
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,577
I may just get a made in China 50/1.2 replica. Maybe my old rigid Summicron is good enough.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #12
Beemermark
Registered User
 
Beemermark's Avatar
 
Beemermark is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,853
The current version is the sharpest, color correct, least distortion of any lens. The ASPH might be better but I have to believe you couldn't see it on film or my old M9.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #13
Ccoppola82
Registered User
 
Ccoppola82 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 415
Just stick with the Rigid your images are always fantastic and the lens is damn sharp. I tested my copy against a few other 50s and I liked the overall package the best. They really nailed it with that lens.
__________________
Leica M2/M6
Hasselblad 500CM

Instagram
Coppola_Art
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #14
DwF
Registered User
 
DwF's Avatar
 
DwF is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Washington State
Posts: 1,207
Raid,

I agree w ccoppola, you do really well with the Rigid. Maybe try the Zeiss 50 Sonnar
f1.5 or CV F1.5 Nokton. You will spend less, get a different look and shallower dof.

David
__________________
DwF DwF’s Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #15
Richard G
Registered User
 
Richard G's Avatar
 
Richard G is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: 37,47 S
Posts: 5,342
Who carries your gear? The rigid and the DR are heavier than a version 4 (black).
__________________
Richard
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #16
santino
eXpect me
 
santino's Avatar
 
santino is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Autriche
Posts: 1,096
The current version (non ASPH) is superb. Even at f2 !
But: don‘t pay too much for a 50. The truth is there are no bad 50mm lenses nowadays. Just stick with your rigid Summicron.
__________________
Vivent les télémétriques ! -
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #17
TenEleven
Registered User
 
TenEleven's Avatar
 
TenEleven is offline
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 92
I agree with everything Kosta has said. The Rigid V1 would be my pick and is also the "budget" version out of the other rigid versions. Only the collapsible is cheaper here. It's a 50mm so close focus is not really that much of a concern for me.

I want to add, that the collapsible while it has an amazing tonality, also has slight barrel distortion in the corners. I also never felt fully at peace with the collapsing mechanism. (I have the same issue with Contax collapsible lenses .. mhmm) I ended up getting rid of mine and keeping my LTM Rigid Summicron 50.
__________________
Manuel
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #18
ZivcoPhoto
Registered User
 
ZivcoPhoto's Avatar
 
ZivcoPhoto is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 321
I have a type 4 which I find more flare resistant than the type 5 which I sold. I also like the tiger claw. I had an “M” collapsible and sold it keeping my LTM collapsible so I can use it on the Barnack Leicas I have. As was said, the collapsible is hard to beat for B&W, technically not perfect, but a top performer for what I like to see.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-30-2020   #19
Archiver
Registered User
 
Archiver is offline
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,540
My only Summicron is the 50mm V5, before the APO. It's one of my favourite and most used lenses. The optical formula is the same as from decades ago, but it's great. Beautifully sharp wide open, decent bokeh, very nice size and handling. The bokeh can be a little busy sometimes, but overall it is a super lens. I'd love to try the APO, though.
__________________
~Loving Every Image Captured Always~
Archiver on flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #20
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is online now
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,707
I think these threads should be banned. All they do is make people dis-satisfied. I don't take photo's and then print them at 24 by 36 and go over them with a micrometer, microscope or anything except my eyes.

If you look long enough and are egged on by the bystanders then you can find fault with anything. And once you get on that slippery slope all the fun goes out of life.

People seem to forget that 8 or 9 out of 10 is a good score.

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #21
jmilkins
Digited User
 
jmilkins's Avatar
 
jmilkins is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: landdownunder
Posts: 1,203
Ah Raid - you make me laugh.

a certain someone did some legendary tests back in the day....

FWIW I would keep the rigid V1. I’m tempted to try a CV50 1.2 but you’ll also be on the preferred list for the replica 50 which will be very interesting if the 35 8 element is anything to go by.
__________________
John

My gallery
The FlickR

"To ∞, and beyond!" B. Lightyear, 1995.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #22
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,044
The collapsible has a very soft front glass, it is very difficult to get a good one. But when you do...

Against the collapsible is also the fact that it is always collapsed when you need the lens. When you finally get it pulled out, your subject is gone.

So for me the best is the Rigid v1. That is, when the fog has been removed by a very competent repairman.

I never tried the six element Rigid, the v3.

The v4 is sharp, but too contasty for b+w. I always get into trouble when I try to make a print from a v4 negative, so I sold my v4.

On b+w film the Rigid v1 is the best user in my opinion.

Erik.


M2, Rigid v1:

  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #23
CharlesDAMorgan
Registered User
 
CharlesDAMorgan is online now
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Plymouth, UK
Posts: 1,455
What version lens is the DR Summicron if someone could enlighten me, I'd be most grateful.
__________________
De-gassing progress:

Leica M2, Nikon D700, Bronica RF645, Leica CL, Summicron 40mm, Rolleicord Va, Hasselblad 500 CM Zeiss Planar, Leica 50mm Summicron V3, Hasselblad PME51 metered prism, Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta 534/16 & Ensign 820 Special - all gone.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #24
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,577
The DR is identical to the Rigid Summicron. It has close focus capabilities and there used to exist a rumor that “ the best glass Leica had”!was used on it.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #25
CharlesDAMorgan
Registered User
 
CharlesDAMorgan is online now
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Plymouth, UK
Posts: 1,455
Thanks Raid - a follow up - is it based on the V1 that Erik mentioned?

I prefer it to my V3 Summicron, but much of that is the actual lens itself, which I think is wonderful over engineering at its most Germanic.
__________________
De-gassing progress:

Leica M2, Nikon D700, Bronica RF645, Leica CL, Summicron 40mm, Rolleicord Va, Hasselblad 500 CM Zeiss Planar, Leica 50mm Summicron V3, Hasselblad PME51 metered prism, Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta 534/16 & Ensign 820 Special - all gone.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #26
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,577
Thanks for all the feedback.

I am now quite convinced to keep using the Rigid Summicron. By the way, I have a DR and CV 50/1.1 and 1.5 and many other fine 50mm lenses . It is Leica 50mm lenses that are quite old in my case.

It is impressive that Leica managed to produce such excellent lenses over 50 years ago.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #27
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
 
Rob-F's Avatar
 
Rob-F is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Show Me state
Age: 79
Posts: 6,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesDAMorgan View Post
What version lens is the DR Summicron if someone could enlighten me, I'd be most grateful.
Version I is the Collapsible.
Version II is the Rigid, and also the Dual Range, AKA the DRS.
Version III is the black one made from 1969 to 1979, number 11817.
Version IV has a different optical formula from the III. It has two plane surfaces (two glass lens elements are flat, or planar, on one side.). Erwin Puts complained that the use of flat surfaces means that the lens, although very good, is not as well corrected as it could have been. The use of plane surfaces reduces manufacturing costs.
Version V is the same as the IV, but with a built-in sunshade.

I had a IV but didn't like the short DOF scale on it. I use versions I, II, and III.
__________________
May the light be with you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #28
Larry Cloetta
Registered User
 
Larry Cloetta is offline
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jackson, WY
Age: 70
Posts: 2,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
I think these threads should be banned. All they do is make people dis-satisfied. I don't take photo's and then print them at 24 by 36 and go over them with a micrometer, microscope or anything except my eyes.

If you look long enough and are egged on by the bystanders then you can find fault with anything. And once you get on that slippery slope all the fun goes out of life.

People seem to forget that 8 or 9 out of 10 is a good score.

Regards, David
David,
Though I am prone to playing this game, I know at some level, it is just a game, so thanks for the useful reminder.

Freud called the impulse “ the narcissism of small differences” (German: der Narzissmus der kleinen Differenzen) : the thesis that communities with adjoining territories and close relationships (like photo gear communities!) are especially likely to engage in feuds and mutual ridicule because of hypersensitivity to details of differentiation.

When it comes to lenses, or cameras, the “differences” exist and people should buy what they desire, and the first reason that pops into their head is as good as any other, but “my (V1) pictures are not any good” won’t be helped by a V5. Or, vice versa. “Different” yes. “Better”, no.
Although we all know that, it’s worth remembering right before the credit card gets whipped out.
__________________
Larry

“It is about time we take photography seriously and treat it as a hobby.” Elliot Erwitt
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #29
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever
所謂的攝影,就是人生。
 
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever's Avatar
 
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New Jersey, US
Age: 28
Posts: 883
Leica 50mm f2 Version II Rigid is my all-time favorite 50mm lens. It has an elegant, classic german design, and solidly built. It is quite sharp @f/2.0. Very high resolution.

Kevin


FIFA World Cup Final. by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr


NYC street photography by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr


NYC street photography by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr


Leica Leitz Summicron-M 50mm f/2.0 "Rigid" made in 1956 Germany by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr
__________________
PM box 100% full. Regarding replica 8-element 35/2, please send message to [email protected]


When a man cannot choose he ceases to be a man...

所謂的攝影,就是人生。
---荒木經惟



https://www.instagram.com/kevinxbegin/
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #30
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,577
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmilkins View Post
Ah Raid - you make me laugh.

a certain someone did some legendary tests back in the day....

FWIW I would keep the rigid V1. I’m tempted to try a CV50 1.2 but you’ll also be on the preferred list for the replica 50 which will be very interesting if the 35 8 element is anything to go by.
I dared to have a 50mm lens comparison between over 20 lenses. RFF members mailed me their precious (valuable!) lenses to Pensacola. Roland helped a lot with the side by side images . He pointed out how good the rigid Summicron performed.

It may have been 13 years ago.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #31
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,577
Thanks for the posted images to Erik and Kevin ......
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #32
robert blu
quiet photographer
 
robert blu's Avatar
 
robert blu is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Italy
Age: 71
Posts: 6,248
Sorry, but I'm afraid to be a primitive user here...satisified with my 50 F2 but...no idea which version it is !

How can I indentify the version? I think from the serial number but than where can I look?
__________________
Remember: today is the Day !
from Ruth Bernhard recipe for a long and happy life

my quiet photographer's blog

My RFF photos and my albums on RFF
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #33
gnuyork
Registered User
 
gnuyork is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 731
I forget which version I have, but it's the one with the collapsible hood. It's perfectly fine, great in fact, but sometimes I wonder if I would like the rigid better for a little more older character (if that makes sense?) There is one particular photographer on the Leica forum that uses the the rigid and I really like his results.

I'm kinda getting bored with pristine optics, especially in the digital world. I have fitted an old 50s/60s(?) Pentax Takumar lens on my Black Magic pocket 4K cinema cameras and the results are stunning for the character.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #34
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,577
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert blu View Post
Sorry, but I'm afraid to be a primitive user here...satisified with my 50 F2 but...no idea which version it is !

How can I indentify the version? I think from the serial number but than where can I look?
This should be helpful, Robert:

https://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/50...ison-table.htm
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #35
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,445
The Summicron 50mm f/2 lens is kind of Leica's signature normal lens to me. I've had four over the years ... At present, the one I have is a current series Summicron-M with six-bit coding that I bought second hand.

I can barely tell the difference between what it produces and what the '80s-'90s version of the same lens produced, or similarly what either of them produced vs my first collapsible from 1955. At least for most photos that I make, rather than resolution testing.

Wonderful lens, whichever one you go for. Not perfect but wonderful.

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #36
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
A usually better source of information is the Leica Wiki hosted by the Leica Camera Forum:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...ra_Accessories
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #37
robert blu
quiet photographer
 
robert blu's Avatar
 
robert blu is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Italy
Age: 71
Posts: 6,248
Thanks Raid, from the photo it seems to be type 4...now I know it and I'm still satisfied :-)
__________________
Remember: today is the Day !
from Ruth Bernhard recipe for a long and happy life

my quiet photographer's blog

My RFF photos and my albums on RFF
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #38
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,577
Type 4 is favored by many Summicron users as the "Bokeh King", I think. It seems (based on the postings in this thread) that all Summicron 50mm lenses are very good lenses overall. A V5 Cron sells for $2000-$2500 these days.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #39
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
A usually better source of information is the Leica Wiki hosted by the Leica Camera Forum:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...ra_Accessories
You are right. Thanks!
I see many details listed there. Many many .....
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-31-2020   #40
DwF
Registered User
 
DwF's Avatar
 
DwF is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Washington State
Posts: 1,207
Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
Type 4 is favored by many Summicron users as the "Bokeh King", I think. It seems (based on the postings in this thread) that all Summicron 50mm lenses are very good lenses overall. A V5 Cron sells for $2000-$2500 these days.
The "bokeh king" is v4 in 35mm FWIW

Regarding 50mm lenses, the one thing to point out is that v4 and 5 Summicrons share the same optical formula, and have shorter throw than v3 as I recall. The reason to get v4 over 5 might be if you don't love the built-in hood on the newer version and prefer to have a focus tab, the v4 has that and requires detachable hood. If you do want a newer Summicron for less than 5K, either of those would be a great choice! I recently traded my v5 away to upgrade and try Summilux ASPH, but have no doubt I will replace my Summicron when I am able.

David
__________________
DwF DwF’s Gallery
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:41.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.