Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Classic Film RangeFinders & Other Classics > FSU Former Soviet Union RF

FSU Former Soviet Union RF This forum is for the Former Soviet Union rangefinder cameras, especially the many and various Fed, Zorki, and Kiev.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Kiev 4am light leak!
Old 1 Week Ago   #1
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 6,783
Kiev 4am light leak!

Just finished my first roll in this camera. Exposures/shutter timing are great. Focus is spot on. Lens excellent. But I am getting a light leak on about 50% of the film, coming through the sprocket area on the bottom left corner. See below.
Note - the camera is always in it's half case so it cannot come in through the bottom. It looks like it is coming in through the area by the VF - so I'm guessing the exposed seam just below the VF where the leather case is cut down to fit.
Ideas?





  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #2
Mark Wood
Registered User
 
Mark Wood is offline
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 441
Very common and almost certainly the baffle behind the rangefinder prism:

http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbc...t%20leaks.html

with light then coming through the sprocket drive area. (Lay the film across the gate and the streak will probably line up with the appropriate place.) Other people's experiences of sorting this one out may differ but I've found it impossible to fix in two cameras, the fit of the components under the top casting being so poor. If you shine a bright torch through the small rangefinder window in a dark room, you will see a pin point of light in the area near the sprocket drive - wind and fire the shutter a few times and retry this though, as it won't happen every time. It's more like it was a feature that was built into the later Kievs I'm afraid and that's a very late one.

On colour negative film, the streak on the final prints/scans would be orange if a leak from the back was to blame. That's a white streak, so it's a light leak on the emulsion side of the film. The fogging doesn't happen on the frame that's lined up with the film gate, it's on the previous exposure that's partially wound onto the take-up spool, if that makes sense!
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #3
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 6,783
Thanks for the explanation Mark!
Yeah, white streak. And doesn't happen all the time.

My Fed2 and Zorki 4 are perfect, so perhaps I should sell this on to someone who isn't bothered and wants a pretty black Contax copy with excellent lens!

I mean, who wouldn't want this?

  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #4
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 6,783
So I used your advice Mark and shone a bright light into the RF window.

I could see light come out of this seam indicated by the blade, and just underneath it behind the sprocket gear. So the baffle in there is bad/misplaced. Wild guess but this may have happened when this camera was repainted.

  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #5
ColSebastianMoran
Registered User
 
ColSebastianMoran's Avatar
 
ColSebastianMoran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,302
Huss, why is the leak at a different spot in the two shots you posted?
__________________
Col. Sebastian Moran, ret. (not really)

In Classifieds Now: Nikon DX Fisheye, photos in this Flickr album.
Use this link to leave feedback for me.

Named "Best heavy-game shooter in the Eastern Empire." Clubs: Anglo-Indian, Tankerville, and Bagatelle Card Club.
Sony E/FE, Nikon dSLR, and iPhone digital. Misc film.
Birds, portraits, events, family. Mindfulness, reflection, creativity, and stance.
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #6
TenEleven
Registered User
 
TenEleven's Avatar
 
TenEleven is offline
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColSebastianMoran View Post
Huss, why is the leak at a different spot in the two shots you posted?
The position seems similar enough to me and from my experience the exact position of both flare and light leaks depends on the angle and intensity of the incoming light.
__________________
Manuel
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #7
Ko.Fe.
Me. Write ESL. Ko.
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 6,952
I would start with fresh light seal on the body Chanel at perimeter of removable back.
Black wool thread is what was and is in use.
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #8
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 6,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColSebastianMoran View Post
Huss, why is the leak at a different spot in the two shots you posted?
the first pic is the very first on the roll which is y it is in a slightly different position. but they all are in that area.
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #9
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 6,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
I would start with fresh light seal on the body Chanel at perimeter of removable back.
Black wool thread is what was and is in use.
I can see the light leak at the top of the sprocket shaft inside the body. so that would not help. Mark was correct with his explanation.
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #10
Mark Wood
Registered User
 
Mark Wood is offline
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 441
Yes, that's exactly where it comes from with three Kiev bodies I have. It does seem to originate from a poor light seal/baffle behind the rangefinder prism but the problem with the cameras I have is that the fit of all of the parts in that region of the top of the camera is so poor, that there isn't really any chance of a new baffle behind the prism stopping every light leak. The poor quality of the parts in some of these cameras really has to be seen to be believed. Light leaks from the body channel tend to spread much further into the sprocket region of the film and would show up as orange on colour negative film, as the light has to come through the film base to reach the emulsion - I've seen that problem too but it's much easier to resolve.

I've tried all of the other suggestions in the article on the Kiev survival site but sadly, all to no avail, I'm afraid. I think there's a good reason why so many late models of these cameras turn up in almost mint condition, as they were probably never usable from the day they left the factory. (The 1950s/60s ones are a different matter altogether and some of those from the early-mid 1970s don't seem too bad either.)

It's probably best to look for one that's been well used!
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #11
Mark Wood
Registered User
 
Mark Wood is offline
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 441
Here's the same problem from a 1975 Kiev 4a. (Taken on slide film and scanned very badly!) That camera probably now has more bits of foam and black plastic sheeting stuffed in it than it has original metalwork but it still has this light leak - sometimes...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg K4a Light Leak.jpg (24.1 KB, 17 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #12
Mark Wood
Registered User
 
Mark Wood is offline
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 441
Difficult to be certain in the dark(!) but I've always thought the light is getting through the hole that I've marked (badly!) with the white arrow here. That could explain partly, why it only happens on some frames and not others.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Kiev Sprocket.jpg (34.3 KB, 28 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #13
Steve M.
Registered User
 
Steve M. is online now
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,217
If that's the case, it's an easy fix Mark. Just put a drop of white glue in the hole and give it a dab w/ a black marker. If you have a bit of acrylic or other paint then it's a one step operation (just dab a little paint into the hole opening).
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #14
Brambling
Registered User
 
Brambling is offline
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Ukraine, Kharkov
Posts: 90
Dear friends, the figured light-shielding gasket is missing or incorrectly installed in these chambers (item 11, figure 27)
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #15
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 6,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brambling View Post
Dear friends, the figured light-shielding gasket is missing or incorrectly installed in these chambers (item 11, figure 27)
Thank you for this information. Any idea where to get that part? Or craft something myself?
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #16
Ko.Fe.
Me. Write ESL. Ko.
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 6,952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
I can see the light leak at the top of the sprocket shaft inside the body. so that would not help. Mark was correct with his explanation.
Explanation means nothing until you will fix the problem.
I cured my 4am leaks starting from where I mentioned.
And then I applied some other patches. But if you think what Mark's explanation is correct, I'm done here.
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #17
farlymac
PF McFarland
 
farlymac's Avatar
 
farlymac is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 6,093
I'd try either some gaffers or electrical tape to cover the suspect area. Looks like it will clear the film movement.


PF
__________________
Waiting for the light
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #18
Brambling
Registered User
 
Brambling is offline
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Ukraine, Kharkov
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Thank you for this information. Any idea where to get that part? Or craft something myself?
you can do it yourself.
for production and installation it is necessary to disconnect slightly the shutter from the case.
There are two pads - round with a cut side and curved shaped. The round is usually not lost, the curved figured can be lost or installed incorrectly.
The figured can be made most of any dense black material thin, it is good to use copper or brass plate - it is more rigid.

Also, if you have already removed the cover, it is good to install such a gasket.

and change/add a string seal in the lid.
unfortunately, now I have disassembled Kiev is not for photography and measurements of curly pads. I recommend buying a cheap donor.
the photos are taken here from my club mates. http://rangefinder.ru/club/viewtopic...ев
Oh, the translation is completely different, I hope you understand me.
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #19
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 6,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
If that's the case, it's an easy fix Mark. Just put a drop of white glue in the hole and give it a dab w/ a black marker. If you have a bit of acrylic or other paint then it's a one step operation (just dab a little paint into the hole opening).
I just filled those holes w/ black rtv sealant. Seems like no light is coming through them now but my room was not pitch black just yet. The fact that my leaks were directly on the film's sprocket hole areas makes me hopeful.
Aside from the light leak this camera seems a-ok with a very nice lens that makes sweet pics:



(hey how come she gets to use an M7 while I have to tool around a Kiev?! )
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #20
farlymac
PF McFarland
 
farlymac's Avatar
 
farlymac is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 6,093
I was going to take you up on your original offer, Huss, but I'm glad you solved the problem instead.


I've noticed this with more than one FED camera, and have seen the light bouncing around before. These small kinds of leaks can sometimes be difficult to pin down as to where it is coming from, but you've shown that by studying the pattern and location of the leak, it can be traced to the source much easier.


Good luck on the RTV sealant. I'd be leery of it out-gassing onto the lens.


PF
__________________
Waiting for the light
  Reply With Quote

Old 6 Days Ago   #21
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 6,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by farlymac View Post


Good luck on the RTV sealant. I'd be leery of it out-gassing onto the lens.


PF
It was only two tiny drops, and I had the back off for a day while they dried. So I don't think there is much chance for outgassing to get through the body, past the shutter and into the lens.
Just checked it again in the dark with an LED light, and I no longer see the light leaks that I saw before. So I'll run another roll through it but I am hopeful it is fixed.
I'll let you know if I'm going to unload it. There are certain design elements that I have not yet jelled with - the infinity lock and the shutter speed dial.
The 53 1.8 lens is very nice though:

  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Days Ago   #22
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 6,783
Finished the second roll, so I'll soon see if the fix is 2 legit 2 legit 2 quit.

The kamera is starting to grow on me, I mean it is stll a total pain in the a$$ with the focus lock, fiddly shutter speed dial and rf window that is blocked if you hold the camera normally. But it is still starting to grow on me.
  Reply With Quote

Old 8 Hours Ago   #23
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 6,783
My attempted fix did not work.. same as before. I'll be unloading this pretty thing as I have too many other cameras that work perfectly to be bothered with this!
Shame as the lens is excellent.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 20:07.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.