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How far can I update OSX and still run LR6.7 without problems?
Old 10-03-2019   #1
571514m3
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How far can I update OSX and still run LR6.7 without problems?

How far can I update OSX and still run LR6.7 without problems?

I use a perfectly ok Macbook Pro 13” from early 2015 running OSX 10.11.6 and also Lightroom 6.7 stand alone.

I like it that way, it works for me and my printer. But now Safari is struggling while Firefox is running like the wind. That seems to tell me that my MAC is still very capable. And I could update OSX. I certainly don't want to update my MAC and loose LR6.7

But I am scared I might mess up how Lightroom runs.

What to do?
Can I risk updating OSX?

BTW. I'm not that deep into software but what also confuses me is that when I check the info on LR the info says:
Version: Adobe Lightroom [1090788]
Obtained from: Identified Developer
Last Modified: 10/03/2019, 20:44
Kind: Intel
64-Bit (Intel): Yes

Why and how would this be 'modified' when it seems that Adobe no longer touches LR6???
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Old 10-03-2019   #2
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The current version of masOS Mojave is the last one, that will run your Lightroom. Next update will be incompatible.

But you should also consider other aspects of your situation: at some point, Apple will stop to deliver security updates to your version, and that may put you and your data at great risk, so an update might be necessary if you don‘t use that computer for LR only without connecting to the internet.

On the other side of things: LR will probably not be able to develop raw images from your next camera, if you ever buy one. So updating that might also be necessary. I had the same decision to make, but I‘m very much into computers, so it wasn‘t so hard and I created some fallbacks. But I understand, that many people do not like Adobes new license modell. Me included.

In the long run, updates will be the easiest and for most people the only choice. Especially, if you are not so much into computers...
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Old 10-03-2019   #3
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I set up a Mojave virtual machine to run 32 bit apps like Aperture and Photoshop CS3. This can be done for free using Virtualbox. Should work with older LR too. Ready for Catalina without having to spring for software updates...
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Old 10-03-2019   #4
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I've locked my current 2012 Mac mini at macOS Mojave to preserve LR v6.14 perpetual license. I won't upgrade it ... I'll buy a new mini and move over to that when I'm ready and move away from LR at that point.

Outside of photography, the Apple Reminders app is now broken for use on my current mini: there are upgrades for iOS and iPadOS 13 that render the macOS version incompatible, and I use that app extensively between all three devices. It's more important to have it on the mobile devices, so I upgraded them and it's now dead on macOS.

Things like this will move me to the next macOS, rather than the photo software. It's the downside of a multi-OS integrated system of devices. But the upside is such that it's worth it to me. I get a tremendous amount of use out of my systems, photography is only a part of it, and the total package has to be weighed and considered when I change things.

The biggest concern I have with the photographic software is printing. LR's Print module has been terrific and I'm still experimenting with the potential replacement apps and their printing workflows. Image processing, effects, etc, I already know I can do anything I want. Image management is another area that I'm still working on.

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Old 10-03-2019   #5
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I'll stop updating macOS if it breaks LR. That's far more important to me than any of the "features" that Apple brings to the Mac.
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All Solutions Are Inconvenient
Old 10-03-2019   #6
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All Solutions Are Inconvenient

Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
I set up a Mojave virtual machine to run 32 bit apps like Aperture and Photoshop CS3. This can be done for free using Virtualbox. Should work with older LR too. Ready for Catalina without having to spring for software updates...
This is an interesting solution.

Another possibility to consider is acquiring a fast, Thunderbolt 2 port compatible external drive. Spending more for a fast drive would minimize any performance loss. Thunderbolt 2 has a maximum transfer rate of 20 Gbps.

You would make a bootable copy of your current internal drive (OSX 10.11.6) for the new drive. Then you would boot using the Thunderbolt 2 drive whenever you needed to use a 32 bit program. Of course you would reboot back into Catalina for other usage.

You could disconnect from the internet when using OSX 10.11.6 when security updates are no longer available.

I think there would be a loss of performance because even a fast Thunderbolt 2 external drive would be slower than an SSD internal drive. UNIX does a lot of memory swapping.

You did not mention the size of your Macbook Pro's internal storage. If it is large enough you could partition the internal SSD. One partition would boot into OSX 10.11.6 and have LR installed. The other would be for Catalina.

It might be worthwhile to upgrade your SSD storage size. The advantage is your current LR performance would not slow down. The disadvantage (besides the cost) is you have to be comfortable at installing the new internal SSD. However you could probably find a computer repair tech to do this for you. One advantage of this strategy is your original SSD can be installed in a case and used for external data storage or back ups.

A 2TB internal SSD upgrade kit is about $450. The kit also includes a separate enclosure and cable to repurpose your existing SSD as an external drive .

In the future when new camera support for LR 6.7 is no longer available you can convert those raw files to DNG before import into LR 6.7. Adobe DNG converter is free.
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How far can I update OSX and still run LR6.7 without problems? Reply to Thread
Old 10-03-2019   #7
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How far can I update OSX and still run LR6.7 without problems? Reply to Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
I set up a Mojave virtual machine to run 32 bit apps like Aperture and Photoshop CS3. This can be done for free using Virtualbox. Should work with older LR too. Ready for Catalina without having to spring for software updates...
Thank you for that. I had not heard of it. Seems like a brilliant idea and of course there should be a way to 'simulate' a particular OS in any OS.

My M-P 240 feels like it could be viable for quite a few years and it stands to reason that there should be a way to future-proof the use of its DNGs.
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Old 10-03-2019   #8
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Wonder how well virtualized OS can handle large image libraries with lot of raw files.
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Old 10-03-2019   #9
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For the work I do in Photoshop and Aperture, I don't need raw speed. Both apps are plenty fast enough under the virtual machine, in any case, on my MacBook Pro. Just assign the VM a decent amount of RAM and have plenty of VM disk storage.

This is just a way to have all the new goodies of Catalina without having to sacrifice a handful of 32 bit apps, some of which have no further upgradeability.

As for security, the virtual machine has no internet connection.

Anyone who is considering doing this, should download a copy of the Mojave installer now, as when Catalina is released Mojave may no longer be available. That's the way Apple has done things in the past, anyway. The installer is required when setting up the VM.
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Old 10-03-2019   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post

Anyone who is considering doing this, should download a copy of the Mojave installer now, as when Catalina is released Mojave may no longer be available. That's the way Apple has done things in the past, anyway. The installer is required when setting up the VM.

How can Apple drop the Mojave installer when that is the final version of the OS that some Macs can use? What if they need to re-install for some technical reason?
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Old 10-03-2019   #11
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To clarify: If your machine is already running Catalina, you won't be able to download the Mojave installer again without going through a bunch of hassle. Apple won't allow you to go to the App store and download it again...

Just a heads up.

Anyone considering running Catalina in combination with a Mojave virtual machine, it's simply a good idea to download the Mojave installer first, before updating your machine to Catalina.
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Old 10-03-2019   #12
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Its' a good idea for anyone using an older machine to download a copy of your current system OS onto a thumb drive before you upgrade to a new OS just in case the new OS causes unforeseen issues. This makes it a lot easier to revert to the old system. There numerous guides for doing this online.
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Old 10-03-2019   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
How can Apple drop the Mojave installer when that is the final version of the OS that some Macs can use? What if they need to re-install for some technical reason?
This is not rocket science. :-)

Apple Support will always have access to the Mojave installer, just like most developers will need access to it for testing purposes. It may not be available for download to the general public through the website/App Store channels after some point.

G
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Old 10-03-2019   #14
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hmm good idea to download Mojave now (installation media). Apple has been disabling/making it more difficult to return older iOS versions too, all in the name of progress and security of course.
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Old 10-03-2019   #15
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I'm also clinging to the last non-subscription LR... running 6.14 on Mojave 10.14.6 with zero issues.

I don't foresee the purchase a new digital anytime soon, so there's no need for updates. If I decide to upgrade to Catalina, I'll make sure LR6 works in a virtual machine first. I'm running NikonScan in a Win7 VM and it works a treat!
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Old 10-04-2019   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarski View Post
hmm good idea to download Mojave now (installation media). Apple has been disabling/making it more difficult to return older iOS versions too, all in the name of progress and security of course.
The issue with iOS (and now iPadOS and tvOS...) is a little different. Apple only supports the latest revision due to all the authentication certification required, and doesn't support backwards migration for the same reason. As with macOS, Apple Support has access to older revisions for systems that cannot be upgraded past a certain point, but support stops at some point anyway.

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Old 10-04-2019   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayernfan View Post
I'm also clinging to the last non-subscription LR... running 6.14 on Mojave 10.14.6 with zero issues....
LR v6.14 is not without issues already on Mojave. The Maps module no longer functions, due to changes in the back end interface to the geolocation library that Adobe will no longer update, and I found that the Slideshow module had major issues playing and integrating a slideshow into a 720p video I was working on yesterday.

There are also occasional issues in the Develop and Print modules ... usually a restart clears them. But the days are numbered, and I am readying other tools to take its place if I continue to hold my resolve not to hop on the subscription bandwagon. Other aspects of macOS and its integration with iOS and iPadOS are actually more important to me than LR.

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How far can I update OSX and still run LR6.7 without problems? Reply to Thread
Old 10-04-2019   #18
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How far can I update OSX and still run LR6.7 without problems? Reply to Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
LR v6.14 is not without issues already on Mojave. The Maps module no longer functions, due to changes in the back end interface to the geolocation library that Adobe will no longer update, and I found that the Slideshow module had major issues playing and integrating a slideshow into a 720p video I was working on yesterday.

There are also occasional issues in the Develop and Print modules ... usually a restart clears them. But the days are numbered, and I am readying other tools to take its place if I continue to hold my resolve not to hop on the subscription bandwagon. Other aspects of macOS and its integration with iOS and iPadOS are actually more important to me than LR.

G
But LR6.7 works fine with Mojave?

I have also tried various options, from ON1 to Luminar and Marketable, in the hope of finding an alternative (and I'm happy to pay for a stand-alone). What has turned me off these is that they are very 'flashy' c/w LR. All I want is a clean and not not AI version of my darkroom. A lightroom where I can import DNGs that I have moderately renamed, where I can adjust the file and then print with confidence, and of course manage my files.

Is that really such a unreasonable demand? By all means let them make that program complex and whatever but allow me to use it in the way I like.

None of that seems possible so for now I have to protect my LR6.7/MAC combo. It works and is brilliant.
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Old 10-04-2019   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
This is not rocket science. :-)

Apple Support will always have access to the Mojave installer, just like most developers will need access to it for testing purposes. It may not be available for download to the general public through the website/App Store channels after some point.

G
It’ll be available to the general public after Catalina is released, however if a particular Mac has already been updated to Catalina then it’s more of a challenge to download the prior OS.

The usual method of going to the App Store to download a previous purchase will no longer work, from that particular Mac anyway.

So there are at least two good reasons to download the Mojave installer prior to Catalina being installed an your Mac:

• if one intends to use a Mojave virtual machine under Catalina
• just in case one decides to downgrade back to Mojave

Catalina is a hard-cutoff for 32 bit apps, so it’s also a good idea to make a list of all apps that are 32 bit on your system so there are no post-Catalina installation surprises.
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Old 10-04-2019   #20
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The more I read this thread the closer I come to ditching the digital and getting a Leica M3 or Nikon F6.

OK, I am exaggerating...a little.
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Old 10-04-2019   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 571514m3 View Post
Is that really such a unreasonable demand? By all means let them make that program complex and whatever but allow me to use it in the way I like.
No, its not, but the flashy stuff, and this means AI in these days, sells better...

I also tried some alternatives before leaving LR and I have to say, that none of the commercial ones were a good alternative. Especially Luminar was a PITA and their support was a joke. I ended up with Capture One, which I really like and now very much prefer over Lightroom. But C1 is „only“ the library and develop-tab of LR. Much better than LRs equivalent, IMHO, but if you need the other functions also (web galleries, map,...) you have to buy 3rd party SW. Whats missing for me, I was able to write myself, as I‘m a professional programmer, so C1 is enough for me.

With your needs, have you ever looked into the free alternatives like rawtherapee? I think, this might be something for you, if you want it simple. There are also countless video tutorials for starters on youtube for it and switching from LR is not that hard.

I think, the virtual machine solution or dual booting are not really alternatives, as they are all an extra step in your workflow and may hinder you to do things in parallel (e.g. developing pictures and surfing the web on the same OS for security reasons). I have VMs on my computer, but I really much prefer the native OS every time.

Long post, sorry...
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Old 10-04-2019   #22
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Cornerfix is probably another application that won't work beyond Mojave?
It's perfect for the Super Angulon 3.4

I'm trawling through my files, cleaning and preparing for the future - should have done that a long time ago. I found 70GB of traceable files. Nice.
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Old 10-05-2019   #23
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I found 70GB of traceable files. Nice.
2.6 Terabytes... It would kill me, if I had to do that...
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Old 10-05-2019   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 571514m3 View Post
But LR6.7 works fine with Mojave?

I have also tried various options, from ON1 to Luminar and Marketable, in the hope of finding an alternative (and I'm happy to pay for a stand-alone). What has turned me off these is that they are very 'flashy' c/w LR. All I want is a clean and not not AI version of my darkroom. A lightroom where I can import DNGs that I have moderately renamed, where I can adjust the file and then print with confidence, and of course manage my files.

Is that really such a unreasonable demand? By all means let them make that program complex and whatever but allow me to use it in the way I like.

None of that seems possible so for now I have to protect my LR6.7/MAC combo. It works and is brilliant.
I have no idea what "LR6.7" is. According to the information on the Adobe website, Lightroom version 6.14 is the very last perpetual license revision of Lightroom. I have never subscribed to any of the CC or mobile services, have never used any of the subscription revisions.

Adobe started messing around with the revisioning numbers when they came out with the Creative Cloud and subscription business. Part of my distrust of the subscription stuff is that I can no longer tell for sure what's what with all the alphabet soup they've made of the versioning. I'd rather find other tools that I can know simply what I have, what works and what doesn't.

I don't use much in way of complex and flashy features. I keep my image processing very very simple.

G
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Old 10-05-2019   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
It’ll be available to the general public after Catalina is released, however if a particular Mac has already been updated to Catalina then it’s more of a challenge to download the prior OS.

The usual method of going to the App Store to download a previous purchase will no longer work, from that particular Mac anyway.

So there are at least two good reasons to download the Mojave installer prior to Catalina being installed an your Mac:

• if one intends to use a Mojave virtual machine under Catalina
• just in case one decides to downgrade back to Mojave

Catalina is a hard-cutoff for 32 bit apps, so it’s also a good idea to make a list of all apps that are 32 bit on your system so there are no post-Catalina installation surprises.
I always keep a copy of the installer for the current and last operating system available; no point to going back farther than that. I also keep an external drive with a clone of my boot drive setup up to date and ready in case of a catastrophe. :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canyongazer View Post
The more I read this thread the closer I come to ditching the digital and getting a Leica M3 or Nikon F6.

OK, I am exaggerating...a little.
LOL!

What's amusing to me is that as time goes on I've been shooting more and more instant film, and using my digital camera as a copy machine to render them to digital images for printing and sharing. I feel best when what comes out of the instant film camera (or the digital camera for that matter) is just about "done" by processing the raw file on the raw converter defaults.

(I just finished a little project—"Friends I Have Lunch And Coffee With"—with the MiNT InstaKon RF70. Just ten photos, every one of them perfect out of the camera (except for the one I made a mistake with!) and finished. Now that's what I like!)

My iPhone 8 Plus cameras have also been pushed to do more and more of my photography. And they do it darn well!

When I shoot film nowadays, I typically want to go to medium format rather than deal with 35mm. Still have my M4-2, R6.2, Leicaflex SL, Robot II, Rollei 35, et al though.

So many options, so little time... Hard to complain about it.

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Old 10-05-2019   #26
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Originally Posted by krötenblender View Post
...
I think, the virtual machine solution or dual booting are not really alternatives, as they are all an extra step in your workflow and may hinder you to do things in parallel (e.g. developing pictures and surfing the web on the same OS for security reasons). I have VMs on my computer, but I really much prefer the native OS every time.
...
I agree. I'd rather find other processing tools that work correctly on macOS Catalina and adapt my workflow to them.

RAW Power combined with Photos for image management is looking pretty good for me. As is On1. When the new Hassy arrives, I'll have their image processing software as well. The way my image processing is structured, I've made converting over from LR to other tools pretty easy. I engineered this ability to change tools into my system policies and workflows over a decade ago.

G
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Old 10-08-2019   #27
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Catalina is now released.

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I agree. I'd rather find other processing tools that work correctly on macOS Catalina and adapt my workflow to them.
I've been using Capture One for the majority of image processing for quite some time, which is fully 64 bit, so no problems with Catalina.

There is a lot to be said about familiarity, however. There are tasks in Aperture that I've been doing for years, that can be accomplished very quickly. There are also some functions that simply don't exist in Capture One (or other apps) that can be done in Aperture. One of these functions was used on a photo that ended up being selected for publication in a national magazine, so I definitely want to keep using Aperture and a virtual machine is the only way to do so while still getting the benefits of Catalina.

Same with Photoshop CS3, there are no functions in later versions that I need or want, and upgrading to a later version or the CC version is simply throwing money away.
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Lightroom 6.14 runs on macOS 10.15 Catalina
Old 10-08-2019   #28
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Lightroom 6.14 runs on macOS 10.15 Catalina

Now that macOS Catalina arrived, I installed it on my MacBook Pro to try it out before installing it on my main Mac.

I was happy to loose LR, since I switched to C1 some time ago and don't really feel bad about not using LR anymore. But just out of curiosity, I clicked on LR, that is still on my MacBook Pro, and see, what happened: "it's... it's... IT'S ALIVE!!!"

How did that happen? My previous interpretation of internet wisdom was, that its gone as soon as I update to Catalina. But with that miracle I just saw, I digged a little bit deeper, and here is what I found:

According to several blogs and Adobe forum entries, LR 6.14 (latest standalone desktop version without the new pay-forever-license-modell) is completely 64bit and thus should run. Although I found no post anywhere, where someone actually tried it with the released version of Catalina, yet. But one post with successfull test of the golden master, which is more or less the same.

Adobe, of course, discourages use of that version with newer macOS-versions, because there is no money to be made from it... errm, strike that - because they can not guarantee best user performance and problems and performance issues may occur.

Yeah, well, it seems to work anyway. I haven't tested each functionality, of course, but a short test seems to have no problems with LR 6.14 on macOS Catalina.

So, where's the catch? - The catch is, that you have to have LR 6.14 installed prior to installing Catalina, because the installer of LR is a 32bit-App, and that one will not be updated by Adobe anymore... So, if you have LR, it will run fine until you have to reinstall it for some reason.

Sorry, long post. I hope, it's of interest for some here.
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Old 10-08-2019   #29
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Yes exactly, only few installer/license programs were 32bit and stop working in Catalina. LR itself runs fine if it was installed in previous version of macOS.
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Old 10-08-2019   #30
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I have saved sooooo much money not subscribing to LR. I'm glad to see this version of macOS keeps that streak intact.
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Old 10-08-2019   #31
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I have saved sooooo much money not subscribing to LR. I'm glad to see this version of macOS keeps that streak intact.
Same here. Very happy to keep using my old faithful Lightroom.
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Old 10-08-2019   #32
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Quote:
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Part of my distrust of the subscription stuff is that I can no longer tell for sure what's what with all the alphabet soup they've made of the versioning. I'd rather find other tools that I can know simply what I have, what works and what doesn't.
It's is much simpler than you're making it: just subscribe, stay up-to-date, ignore the version number, and use the software as it works very well.
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Old 10-08-2019   #33
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The news today confirms my distaste for subscription models: 'CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuelans desperately ... to continue using Adobe programs after the software developer ...... cut access to its products for the country’s users, citing U.S. sanctions.'

I like to own what I pay for.
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Old 10-08-2019   #34
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those who buy new Mac in future, chances of using their old Lightroom in it, options are pretty scarce change vendor or go paying Adobe-tax.
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Old 10-08-2019   #35
bayernfan
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Originally Posted by krötenblender View Post

So, where's the catch? - The catch is, that you have to have LR 6.14 installed prior to installing Catalina, because the installer of LR is a 32bit-App, and that one will not be updated by Adobe anymore... So, if you have LR, it will run fine until you have to reinstall it for some reason.

Sorry, long post. I hope, it's of interest for some here.
I wonder how difficult it would be to hack the installer to work on the new OS. I bet there are quite a few people that want to continue using (and installing) the last stand-alone LR.
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Old 10-08-2019   #36
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Also, Adobe also needs to do right by it's long-time customers and update the installer to x64. (Long shot... right).
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Old 10-09-2019   #37
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I wonder how difficult it would be to hack the installer to work on the new OS. I bet there are quite a few people that want to continue using (and installing) the last stand-alone LR.
Should be able to do this (i.e., use a 32 bit installer) with a virtual machine, and a shared directory with the host OS.
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Old 10-09-2019   #38
krötenblender
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Also, Adobe also needs to do right by it's long-time customers and update the installer to x64. (Long shot... right).
Why would Adobe care about users, that obviously don‘t want to pay for new versions of an already for some years outdated software?

I‘m sure, they are very interested to make sure, that there is no way to install that old version again on new OSes. That‘s where the money would be.
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Old 10-09-2019   #39
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Should be able to do this (i.e., use a 32 bit installer) with a virtual machine, and a shared directory with the host OS.
At some point, the effort will become just too high... Feasible? maybe. Worthwhile? Not really.

At least for almost all users.

E.g. what stops Adobe from denying the activation of that SW online...?
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Old 10-09-2019   #40
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Should be able to do this (i.e., use a 32 bit installer) with a virtual machine, and a shared directory with the host OS.
Interesting. Are you saying that the install would be initialized on a 32-bit compatible VM (Mojave), and the install file destination is on Catalina?
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