44" paper choice?
Old 06-26-2018   #1
Saul
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44" paper choice?

As the title says, I'm trying out different papers for B/W images to be displayed unframed/unglazed.

I'm very familiar with Canson Photographique and like it quite a bit. I've never printed on artist paper before and need to stay away from the fragile surfaces of matte papers.

So far I'm making work prints on Epson Presentation (which, for what it is, isn't bad but it's no where near where I want to end up). My highest priorities are: tonality; durability to being rolled and unrolled; best match to Epson inks.

What are your thoughts?
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Old 06-26-2018   #2
Calzone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul View Post
As the title says, I'm trying out different papers for B/W images to be displayed unframed/unglazed.

I'm very familiar with Canson Photographique and like it quite a bit. I've never printed on artist paper before and need to stay away from the fragile surfaces of matte papers.

So far I'm making work prints on Epson Presentation (which, for what it is, isn't bad but it's no where near where I want to end up). My highest priorities are: tonality; durability to being rolled and unrolled; best match to Epson inks.

What are your thoughts?
Saul,

I assume you want a Baryta coated paper. The Canson Photographique is a cellulose paper with a Baryta coating that I like also, but my main paper is Canson Platine Fibre Rag which closely resembles the Canson Photographique, except it is a 100% cotton Rag paper.

The brightness is about the same, but realize that the Photographique has trace amounts of optical brightners (OBA's) while the Platine Fibre Rag does not. The Platine Fibre Rag is smooth like the Photographic, but the Photographique is a tad smoother.

I once asked Robert Rodriguez, the Canson Artist-In-Residence the difference because in prints of the same image they looked very much the same. Pretty much Robert told me to feel the two papers, and feeling the rag paper is a nice experience.

"Use rag when people are going to handle the print. You will make more sales. If behind glass use the Photographique to save money," he said.

An interesting paper is Jon Cone Type 5. This is described as being like Cranes Silver Rag but optimized for Piezography. It offers a nice black, but where this paper excels is in the mid range. This is also a Baryta coated paper if you are trying to resemble a silver wet print, but the finish I would say is a "satin" finish and it is not a true glossy like the Platine Fibre Rag.

So if you like Canson Photographique you should love these two papers. I have been printing with all three, but at this point I am avoiding those OBA's.

Cal
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Old 06-26-2018   #3
Steve M.
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Is Epson Presentation the same as the old Epson Enhanced Matte? That paper printed well but wasn't archival, nor was their Premium Luster. Both of those changed significantly with me over time. The Premium Luster print I finally had to throw away. I really like their Velvet Fine Art papers and they are archival, but that surface is not for every photo. If you're mounting your photos as a faux dry mount, you'll really notice the differences in papers when you display them on the walls, but put them under plexi or glass and those differences totally disappear. I would imagine that your choices for 44" papers would be a little limited, but that's only a guess.

My printing is on fiber in the darkroom now, and not all of the images look best as a dry mount. Some look better w/ a matte and framed, but my preference is to go dry mount if possible.

I don't have any recommendation for you on ink jet papers other than to steer clear of papers with OB's and make real sure what you are buying is an archival paper.
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Old 06-27-2018   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calzone View Post
Saul,

I assume you want a Baryta coated paper. The Canson Photographique is a cellulose paper with a Baryta coating that I like also, but my main paper is Canson Platine Fibre Rag which closely resembles the Canson Photographique, except it is a 100% cotton Rag paper.

The brightness is about the same, but realize that the Photographique has trace amounts of optical brightners (OBA's) while the Platine Fibre Rag does not. The Platine Fibre Rag is smooth like the Photographic, but the Photographique is a tad smoother.

I once asked Robert Rodriguez, the Canson Artist-In-Residence the difference because in prints of the same image they looked very much the same. Pretty much Robert told me to feel the two papers, and feeling the rag paper is a nice experience.

"Use rag when people are going to handle the print. You will make more sales. If behind glass use the Photographique to save money," he said.

An interesting paper is Jon Cone Type 5. This is described as being like Cranes Silver Rag but optimized for Piezography. It offers a nice black, but where this paper excels is in the mid range. This is also a Baryta coated paper if you are trying to resemble a silver wet print, but the finish I would say is a "satin" finish and it is not a true glossy like the Platine Fibre Rag.

So if you like Canson Photographique you should love these two papers. I have been printing with all three, but at this point I am avoiding those OBA's.

Cal
These suggestions sound good, and I'll get my hands on some of the Platine. Funny, I thought the Photographique didn't have OBA's.
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Old 06-27-2018   #5
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Cal,

Do you think the Cone paper will shine even outside of Pieziography inkset?
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Old 06-27-2018   #6
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Cal,

Do you think the Cone paper will shine even outside of Pieziography inkset?
Saul,

I think if you like Canson Photographique that you will also love Canson Platine Fibre Rag and the Jon Cone Type 5.

The Platine Fibre Rag I sometimes use the Photographique Baryta curves. Seems like the coating (Baryta) is the same. This is why I asked Robert Rodriguez the difference because in printing the images looked the same and the quality of the paper white seemed the same. Pretty much the difference is the feel of the paper. To me rag is a tactile experience that is wonderful to feel in the hand. The Platine is smooth, but not as smooth as the cellulose Photographique Baryta.

The Jon Cone Type 5 I believe is beloved by some color printers. This is also a Baryta coated paper that is not as smooth as the Canson papers. The voicing of this paper is in the mids for my B&W printing. The Canson papers I think print a blacker-black. I love the satin finish. Not a true glossy IMHO like the two above Canson papers.

There is a third Canson paper that was released about two years ago called "Prestige." The weight is heavier and it is a blend of cellulose and rag with a Baryta coating, but the bad is that it has trace/small/minimal OBA's which kills my interest.

I have two sample packs of two sheets of the new "Prestige," and if you would like one I'll mail you one if you PM me your snail mail. I think the idea here was to get a heavier weight paper that has the smoothness of the Photographique but with the feel of the Platine Fibre Rag. Know that this paper is mucho expensive. I can also send you a post card sized image on Jon Cone Type 5 as an example.

I have not printed on Crane's Silver Rag, but basically Jon Cone Type 5 is an enhanced clone. I would also look at Crane's Silver Rag. Allegedly the JC Type 5 is optimized for a blacker-black using Piezography inks.

BTW the JC Type 5 strongly resembles a wet print, and I think that is its intention. The Canson papers have a blacker-black and because of this an enhanced contrast. No favorite here. It all depends on the image, yet the prints can be displayed side by side even though on different papers. I like this flexibility.

Cal
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Old 06-27-2018   #7
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Cal,

Look for my PM.

Once I can experience some of these different papers I'll be better positioned to make an informed choice.

Even though I don't do Piezography, I'm a huge fan of mid-tone greys and will also explore the Crane Silver Rag.
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