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Reflex on Kickstarter
Old 11-07-2017   #1
Arbitrarium
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Reflex on Kickstarter

So the SLR being designed by the people behind If You Leave on Instagram have started their Kickstarter and it turns out the camera does in fact offer something new.

Interchangeable lens mounts! Could be flimsy and prone to leaking but I imagine they'll work that out.

Still too much cash for me, but interchangeable lens mounts and film backs would make it a pretty incredible system.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...b26ee-35231441
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Old 11-07-2017   #2
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It's a latter-day Contarex, but even more Rube Goldbergian.

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Old 11-07-2017   #3
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Interchangeable backs sound nice, but what's the point of interchangeable lens mounts? One can adopt pretty much all SLR mounts to Canon EOS cameras anyway. Their mounts certainly won't have auto diaphragm action either. Then, there's always the possibility to buy old camera bodies for probably less than a film back for this will cost...
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Old 11-07-2017   #4
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Interesting, but battery dependent cameras are not for me. I applaud their efforts however.
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Old 11-07-2017   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retinax View Post
Interchangeable backs sound nice, but what's the point of interchangeable lens mounts? One can adopt pretty much all SLR mounts to Canon EOS cameras anyway.
For those who don't want to use a canon EOS?
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Old 11-07-2017   #6
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For those who don't want to use a canon EOS?
Well, I guess they could have choosen a common mount and fix it to the camera, and then offer adapters for the other mounts.
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Old 11-07-2017   #7
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Well, I guess they could have choosen a common mount and fix it to the camera, and then offer adapters for the other mounts.
Depending on the mount to film plane distance that may not be possible.
At any rate the camera is way overthought. Forget the interchangeable backs and mounts. Pick out a popular mount from the film era, a Nikon F mount would do, (although I would prefer OM) and build an all mechanical camera. All it takes is money, a lot of money, way way beyond 131K (add a few zeros to that figure).

Built to a fairly rugged standard it would be priced at about $600 and who would put up with that? Not when the used market is awash with metal, manual, and mechanical film SLR's, most for less, sometimes a lot less than $100?
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Old 11-07-2017   #8
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Not the best choice for a name, in my opinion, given that all SLRs are reflex cameras. Kind of like how Zeiss named their new rangefinder the Zeiss Ikon, but Zeiss Ikon made a lot of rangefinders...

I figure a lot of us here wouldn't buy the camera, and my immediate thought when I saw this was along the lines of 'why would anyone buy this for $800 when they could get a Canon FTb and lens for $50' - but that's not the point. It's new, and different. Interchangeable lens mounts and detachable back and built-in flash and light and whatever. I don't understand why you'd want/need that stuff but this camera's not marketed to me - they've put a lot of work into this project and presumably they know their audience.

If it is stop-down lens operation only (as I'd imagine it to be) that's kind of dumb. 2017 camera with 1950s lens operation.

I dunno; it'll be cool to see how this project works out.
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Old 11-07-2017   #9
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Seems a great effort for me. Really like interchangeable backs. Agree, one could buy an additional body for less, but it means more weight on my back and need to change lens for whatever I got on my main lens.

May support it, depending on how fat my wallet is at end of year.

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Old 11-07-2017   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockos View Post
Well, I guess they could have choosen a common mount and fix it to the camera, and then offer adapters for the other mounts.
But that is a already available. I'm not sure why people think this is a bad idea...as long as they implement it properly. It's very clean.
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Old 11-07-2017   #11
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I don't understand why you'd want/need that stuff but this camera's not marketed to me - they've put a lot of work into this project and presumably they know their audience.
What exactly is the demographic that would want this camera instead of a classic film camera like the Nikon F2, Canon F1, Olympus OM1, Pentax Spotmatic, etc.?
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Old 11-07-2017   #12
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I like the grip,

Hope they make their goals.

I won't be backing it as I'm sure most of us here will not.
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Old 11-07-2017   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
What exactly is the demographic that would want this camera instead of a classic film camera like the Nikon F2, Canon F1, Olympus OM1, Pentax Spotmatic, etc.?
People who like to use different mounts and want a new body to do it with?
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Old 11-07-2017   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
What exactly is the demographic that would want this camera instead of a classic film camera like the Nikon F2, Canon
F1, Olympus OM1, Pentax Spotmatic, etc.?
I don't know either, but it's not you or me! Probably weird hipsters, like the ones that use film point and shoot cameras. Like my cousin.
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Old 11-07-2017   #15
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I admire their initiative, but there is so much wrong in the design:
  • You can't change film with the camera on a tripod. The body must be removed from the film back to rewind and reload and it's the back that has the tripod mount.
  • The lens mount plates are not likely to be very strong, limiting the use of big heavy lenses. Not bolting the body flange directly to the heavier body castings is a mistake many early SLRs exhibited. The best examples are the early Pentax models, pre-Spotmatic, which frequently had flange alignment issues. The plates need to be very robust and the locking system needs to be very solid. Hopefully they'll do a much better design than illustrated. If not, there will be significant light leak issues.
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Old 11-07-2017   #16
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if it isn’t auto-diaphragm, they’ve made a huge mistake. there’s no way im gonna rack between wide-open and stopped down for every shot.
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Old 11-07-2017   #17
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I'm really unhappy with the camera.

The design looks pretty good to me, and from what I can see they've kept it simple. But I now have a bloody horrible 1980s song by Duran Duran going through my head.

I could not buy a camera whose name will always evoke Simon Le Bon's awful whiney warbling.
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Old 11-07-2017   #18
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Their early tests showed some light leaks which I assume was from the interchangeable mount not being finished, but their newer tests show no leaks so I guess they've worked out how to make them fit tightly.

I have no idea how the aperture linking will work, if at all. If they've somehow got their lens mounts to link to all of the different aperture linkages that's pretty amazing. Otherwise it'll be stop-down. Which as others have said, sort of negates the interchangeable mounts because basic adapters cost nothing.
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Old 11-07-2017   #19
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Just noticed in the specs: "depth of field inverted preview"

... which says to me the lens is stopped down and opens up with a button? If it's the inverse of a normal depth of field preview. I'm confused.
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Old 11-07-2017   #20
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So many negative comments... isn't it great that there will probably be a new Film camera?
I admire their creativity!
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Old 11-07-2017   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbitrarium View Post
Just noticed in the specs: "depth of field inverted preview"

... which says to me the lens is stopped down and opens up with a button? If it's the inverse of a normal depth of field preview. I'm confused.
Yes, it sounds like stop-down metering and exposure. Like you, I assume there is a lever to open up the lens for focusing. Part and parcel of the interchangeable lens mounts. It sounds inconvenient, but perhaps that inconvenience is part of its charm. I am also guessing it has a plain matte screen without focusing aids, like micro-prism collar or split-image, or both, which would go dark at stopped-down apertures.
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Old 11-07-2017   #22
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Yes, it's stop-up focusing.

The lens is stopped down by default for metering. Press a button to open up the aperture for focus and composing.

Instant return mirror? Unknown.

Viewfinder: what focusing screen(s)? What mag? What eye relief? Diopters?

I don't think the market is a typical RFFer.
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Old 11-07-2017   #23
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Now, make it 6x6/6x7 and release a f2 standard lens with it...
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Old 11-07-2017   #24
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During the past three hours they have attracted another 10,000 UK pounds.
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Old 11-07-2017   #25
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the camera won't work for me, but i applaud the effort and wish them success. the film community needs more people to step up like this. hopefully an innovative film rangefinder pops up soon.
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Old 11-07-2017   #26
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My feelings exactly. With the tolerances possible w/today's computer-controlled machine tools, it's actually easier to make certain things like interchangeable backs. Not so sure about optical rangefinders (I think that's 1 reason why Leicas, & Bessas, are still relatively expensive compared to SLRs).

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the camera won't work for me, but i applaud the effort and wish them success. the film community needs more people to step up like this. hopefully an innovative film rangefinder pops up soon.
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Old 11-07-2017   #27
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This concept has more of a place with Digital cameras.
A replaceable lens mount ala Ricoh GR.
Other than the cool factor, what is the need for more film SLR's. There are 10's of Millions out there ready to use
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Old 11-07-2017   #28
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Reminds me a little bit of my Bessaflex TM.
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Old 11-07-2017   #29
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So many negative comments... isn't it great that there will probably be a new Film camera?
I admire their creativity!
Exactly! People here would kick puppies given the chance!

I think it is fantastic, and cheaper than the Cosina/Vivitar/Nikon FM10.

I'm in. Just hoping they (or someone) makes an Minolta MD mount for it.
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Old 11-07-2017   #30
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Exactly! People here would kick puppies given the chance!

I think it is fantastic, and cheaper than the Cosina/Vivitar/Nikon FM10.

I'm in. Just hoping they (or someone) makes an Minolta MD mount for it.
I've noticed that on a lot of forums. Everyone seems to want to support film until someone comes out with a new film or camera. Then the fangs come out.

I think it is great that someone is trying to come out with a new SLR film camera. The last two cameras I pledged to buy on Kickstarter (Wanderlust and Intrepid) turned out to be terrific buys and I use them constantly. I put my money where my mouth is on this one so we will see how it turns out. I hope they make it.

I am not too sure I will need several different lens mounts, M42 is a pretty good option all on its own, but I am all for interchangeable film backs. I use the Contaflex and the Contarex and there are problems with their interchangeable film backs not too mention that those cameras are getting quite old. It will be interesting to see how someone else implements the idea with new technology available.
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Old 11-07-2017   #31
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I love the idea, got a few concerns about the execution, they have and a idea and the guts to try it out, more power to them.

While there are a LOT of mechanical issues with doing Auto-Aperture, I'm wondering if you could deal with them electronically (control of the movements needed) with less headaches to keep the modules idea.

Much more impressive than the Yashica folks (who are at about 12X their funding level currently with 11 days or so to go).

B2 (;->
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Old 11-07-2017   #32
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Perhaps with enough interest in this or other new film cameras Mr. Kobayashi of Cosina
or some other experienced manufacturer will return to the film camera making business,
offering us something more serviceable than under-engineered Kickstarter pipedreams.

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Old 11-07-2017   #33
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Good idea, auto diaphragm electrically driven, but nothing like that mentioned on the kickstarter site.
I really think auto diaphragm is the best thing since long before sliced bread (I slice myself, like probably most people here, who like all-manual cameras ), and without it this isn't that great for me. I wish them luck in any case, great that someone makes such an an effort.
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Old 11-07-2017   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Exactly! People here would kick puppies given the chance!

I think it is fantastic, and cheaper than the Cosina/Vivitar/Nikon FM10.

I'm in. Just hoping they (or someone) makes an Minolta MD mount for it.
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So many negative comments... isn't it great that there will probably be a new Film camera?
I admire their creativity!
Not negative here. Maybe Humbug-ish but not negative.

Speaking of puppies.

My point is, why open a puppy mill while in the mean time their are millions of orphan puppies.
Same goes with film SLR's.

I would rather a kickstarter for a classic SLR re-habbing service rather than new cameras.
These guys are "selling" re-habbed Helios-44 and Pentacon 55mm... why build new bodies and create new waste stream?

There is enough out there to last many, many generations of photographers.
Why make more?
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Old 11-07-2017   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
This concept has more of a place with Digital cameras.
A replaceable lens mount ala Ricoh GR.
Other than the cool factor, what is the need for more film SLR's. There are 10's of Millions out there ready to use
Which is why they bring the "cool factor". And it is cool. It's a new SLF with interchangeable backs and interchangeable lens mounts.

Sure it's manual diaphragm and tedious and slow. Its a film camera. If you want to make a bells and whistles film SLR these days you're going to fail. This is retro and neat.

I'm not going to buy one though, apart from not being an SLR person, I like things simple, and interchangeable this and that is just too complicated for me. I can't imaging using two lenses where the focus ring and aperture went in different directions on the same body. My brain would explode.
Can you imagine trying to find the perfect 50 when you have choose from all lenses make for M42, F, FD, OM and PK mounts! Where do you start!
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Old 11-08-2017   #36
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I enjoyed reading this reaction to the Reflex Kickstarter initiative: https://www.35mmc.com/08/11/2017/sto...aphy-industry/
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Old 11-08-2017   #37
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Not negative here. Maybe Humbug-ish but not negative.

Speaking of puppies.

My point is, why open a puppy mill while in the mean time their are millions of orphan puppies.
Same goes with film SLR's.
Cuz those millions out there are not puppies. But old mangy mutts.
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Old 11-08-2017   #38
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I enjoyed reading this reaction to the Reflex Kickstarter initiative: https://www.35mmc.com/08/11/2017/sto...aphy-industry/
Exactly! Thanks for linking.

It's not just a new camera, but a 'new' concept to a 35mm film camera.

Film lovers should be rejoicing, not moaning!
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Old 11-08-2017   #39
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I'm in. Hoping for a Minolta MD mount in the future, but the Nikon and M42 would work for now.
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Old 11-08-2017   #40
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Cuz those millions out there are not puppies. But old mangy mutts.
ahh... touché!


mumble mumble.... waste stream...
grumble mumble .... kids on the lawn... grumble


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