Elmar 2.8 compared to collapsible Summicron?
Old 07-03-2018   #1
shawn
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Elmar 2.8 compared to collapsible Summicron?

Just looking for opinions on how the LTM Elmar 2.8 and the original LTM collapsible Summicron (not radioactive) compare?

Tried searches but haven't seen much comparing these two lenses. I have the Elmar (on a IIIG) and was curious how it compares to the Summicron.

Thanks,

Shawn
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Old 07-03-2018   #2
Ronald M
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LTM compares most favorably with Rigid & DR Summicrons. Color and contrast better.

I read recently the first Sumi was made for slides which have a lot of contrast. Mine was somewhat flat.
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Old 07-03-2018   #3
DominikDUK
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The summicron has better corner sharpness and better resolution. The elmar more contrast from f5.6 they are nearly equal in sharpness. At f8 to f11 you're hard pressed to see a real difference in sharpness.
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Old 07-03-2018   #4
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About 9K photos from 500+ owners of Cron v1:
https://www.flickr.com/groups/[email protected]/pool/

I owned it (in M) and it was high class lens for BW darkroom prints and even scans.
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Old 07-03-2018   #5
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I've owned a number of collapsible 50 Summicrons over the years, and loved them all. More than sharpness, it's a lens that delivers beautiful IQ and smooth bokeh. You have to be careful buying one, as front element coatings can sometimes be damaged (though whether or not that makes any difference in your photos is debatable), and some have internal haze. You get one stop of extra light w/ the Summicron too. Really, you can't go wrong with one of these if it's clean. They also have an olde style way of imaging if that's important to you, but the Elmar probably does that too.
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Old 07-03-2018   #6
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I kept my Cron and got rid of my Elmar. Nothing wrong with the Elmar per se. The only thing wrong with it to me was that the front aperture portion of the lens rotated as you focused. Made aperture adjustment a little finicky for me. I do agree that it’s hard to find a good Collapsible Cron though. I have one that was CLA’d a bit ago by Youxin Ye and could screenshot his comments on it. I’ve since acquired a near mint version. It is my favorite 50mm for the Leica
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Old 07-03-2018   #7
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My own experiences make me suggest that the Collapsible Summicron has more character for B&W and the Elmar has better color fidelity than the Cron.
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Old 07-03-2018   #8
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hmmm... Good Question
have had both

here is the Collapsible Summicron ... classic, beautiful rendering in BW


Tied Up
by Helen Hill, on Flickr



Alone...Waiting
by Helen Hill, on Flickr



skid row
by Helen Hill, on Flickr
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Old 07-03-2018   #9
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great lens the collapsible but I think I prefer the first version 2.8 Elmar
just something Beautiful in its clean crisp rendering BUT if you are just shooting film then f2 in lowlight gives You a tad more


Untitled
by Helen Hill, on Flickr


Quiet by the Pond...
by Helen Hill, on Flickr
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Old 07-03-2018   #10
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Elmar 2.8


in sync
by Helen Hill, on Flickr
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Old 07-03-2018   #11
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I haven't owned or shot a collapsible Summicron, but I do own, shoot, and enjoy a LTM 2.8 Elmar 5cm.
Here's a shot a mid apertures (5.6?)



You can see more images shot with it here: https://www.flickr.com/groups/[email protected]/pool/
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Old 07-03-2018   #12
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The problem I have is I own both. I blame g.a.s.

By the by I can’t tell the difference with the negatives of either one. I only use black and white film anymore, mostly slow stuff.
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Old 07-03-2018   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
Elmar 2.8


in sync
by Helen Hill, on Flickr
Great shot Helen!
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Old 07-03-2018   #14
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Thanks everyone. A little more character can be fun as would the extra stop and non-rotating aperture.

Thanks,

Shawn
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Old 07-03-2018   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn View Post
Thanks everyone. A little more character can be fun as would the extra stop and non-rotating aperture.

Thanks,

Shawn
Those are good points, but I think itís also good to consider one of the main points of a collapsible lens: compactness. The Elmar is more compact than the Summicron.
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Old 07-03-2018   #16
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I have the M mount 1st version of the Elmar 2.8, I think it is the same lens but for the mount. It is a sharp lens, fair enough, but the ergonomics of the thing are sad. It is a fairly heavy lens, and when collapsed it won't stay collapsed, keeps sliding out, and there is no way to stop it. Really the only way to use it is to lock it open when it is on the camera, and leave it like that. Mine is a pristine copy, and it must have done this since new, and the first owner just put it away.
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Old 07-03-2018   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidnewtonguitars View Post
I have the M mount 1st version of the Elmar 2.8, I think it is the same lens but for the mount. It is a sharp lens, fair enough, but the ergonomics of the thing are sad. It is a fairly heavy lens, and when collapsed it won't stay collapsed, keeps sliding out, and there is no way to stop it. Really the only way to use it is to lock it open when it is on the camera, and leave it like that. Mine is a pristine copy, and it must have done this since new, and the first owner just put it away.
Sounds like your Elmar needs maintenance. Mine has a little friction when collapsing and extending, and stays put when collapsed.
In terms of ergonomics it is a delight to use when compared to the f3.5 screw mount version. The rotating front of the lens can be a pain in the neck when using a polarizer (yes, I use a polarizer with my rangefinders occasionally), but it doesnít bother me otherwise.
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Old 07-04-2018   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ccoppola82 View Post
I kept my Cron and got rid of my Elmar. Nothing wrong with the Elmar per se. The only thing wrong with it to me was that the front aperture portion of the lens rotated as you focused. Made aperture adjustment a little finicky for me.
The rotating front won't be a problem if we use this sequence:

1. Shutter
2. Aperture
3. Focus
4. Expose.

Notice the initial letters are S-A-F-E. It's the SAFE method because the aperture is set before focusing, thus avoiding disturbing the focus setting. It's a good thing for a student to learn no matter what camera or lens they use. It helps to remember all the settings.
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Old 07-04-2018   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidnewtonguitars View Post
I have the M mount 1st version of the Elmar 2.8, I think it is the same lens but for the mount. It is a sharp lens, fair enough, but the ergonomics of the thing are sad. It is a fairly heavy lens, and when collapsed it won't stay collapsed, keeps sliding out, and there is no way to stop it. Really the only way to use it is to lock it open when it is on the camera, and leave it like that. Mine is a pristine copy, and it must have done this since new, and the first owner just put it away.
I have a ltm Konishiroku Hexar that is loose like that. Donít know if it is adjustable. My Elmar stays shut when it is closed.

Shawn
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Old 07-04-2018   #20
David Hughes
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Sounds like the felt or whatever they use for light seals around the lens barrel is worn a bit too flat.

Regards, David
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Old 07-04-2018   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
The rotating front won't be a problem if we use this sequence:

1. Shutter
2. Aperture
3. Focus
4. Expose.

Notice the initial letters are S-A-F-E. It's the SAFE method because the aperture is set before focusing, thus avoiding disturbing the focus setting. It's a good thing for a student to learn no matter what camera or lens they use. It helps to remember all the settings.

I'd add "don't touch the infinity lock until you are ready to focus" but S-A-F-E is something everyone should do.


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Old 07-04-2018   #22
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I loved my LTM 2.8 Elmar and sold it unfortunately. On my old IIIf it was such a perfect small kit. My M4 with DR Summicron was and is the more advanced, more capable kit but weighs three times as much. Nowadays I have a Retina IIa with 50mm f/2 Xenon for the tiny pocket camera. Anyway, the old Elmar is a great optic and I wouldn't hesitate to use one again.

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Old 07-04-2018   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
The rotating front won't be a problem if we use this sequence:

1. Shutter
2. Aperture
3. Focus
4. Expose.

Notice the initial letters are S-A-F-E. It's the SAFE method because the aperture is set before focusing, thus avoiding disturbing the focus setting. It's a good thing for a student to learn no matter what camera or lens they use. It helps to remember all the settings.
I tend to do these things by instinct but itís good to have your mnemonic . Thank you!
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Old 07-04-2018   #24
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I opened it up and there is a black painted steel or brass ring for the tube to slide on. That is as far as I went in. I asked Youxin and he said there was no adjustment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
Sounds like the felt or whatever they use for light seals around the lens barrel is worn a bit too flat.

Regards, David
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Old 07-04-2018   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
The rotating front won't be a problem if we use this sequence:

1. Shutter
2. Aperture
3. Focus
4. Expose.

Notice the initial letters are S-A-F-E. It's the SAFE method because the aperture is set before focusing, thus avoiding disturbing the focus setting. It's a good thing for a student to learn no matter what camera or lens they use. It helps to remember all the settings.
Sure, but that sequence does not fit all situations. For example when zone focusing at a distance and then adjusting for light. Or making test shots are various apertures to check the lens out. Last one is where I run into this on the Elmar. Not a huge deal but is something to watch out for. Does the Itooy fit the Summicron?

Shawn
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Old 07-04-2018   #26
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There is no lock to keep the lens barrel retracted, only extended.

I have a very nice MS Optical Apoqualia collapsible 50/3.5 lens that slides out on its own. It doesn't really cause any problems but it can be irritating.

Most of my Elmars are tight enough (read that old enough) that they pretty much stay in place when collapsed. However, my M 50/2.8 Elmar is a heavier lens so it may be more susceptible.
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Old 07-04-2018   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
There is no lock to keep the lens barrel retracted, only extended.

I have a very nice MS Optical Apoqualia collapsible 50/3.5 lens that slides out on its own. It doesn't really cause any problems but it can be irritating.

Most of my Elmars are tight enough (read that old enough) that they pretty much stay in place when collapsed. However, my M 50/2.8 Elmar is a heavier lens so it may be more susceptible.
the MS Optics 35/3.5 also exhibits this behavior. honestly, there's not much to be gained in collapsing it, so mine stays permanently extended . that and it's way too fiddly.

the newer elmar-m 50/2.8 does collapse quite nicely and stays put. if only the focus throw wasn't so short/fast. it's crazy!

i realize neither are LTM, just wanted to comment on the collapsibility of them.
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Old 07-06-2018   #28
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Just an update.....





Looks good on there, loaded with tri-x.

Lens itself is near mint, coating and front element look great and I put a filter on it to keep it that way. It was CLAd by DAG. Collapsing the lens is a very smooth, tight fit and it does not move at all when collapsed.

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Old 07-06-2018   #29
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Looks like new, I hope you aren't too intimidated to use it (I might be). Is that a Series filter adapter in front? Does it work with wider lenses? Looks so long and narrow.
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Old 07-06-2018   #30
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It does look to be in great shape. Think I scored on that lens. I will use it but carefully.

The filter is a Marumi 39mm UV. Color matches well, I haven't tried it on anything wider. It adds just over 4mm to the front of the lens.

Shawn
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Old 07-06-2018   #31
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classic combo shawn. i don't use a filter in front of mine, just use a rocket blower and if absolutely necessary, lens cleaner and a zeiss microfiber.

post some pics when you've made them.
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Old 07-06-2018   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJJ3;
Great shot Helen!
lovely of You ... Thanks !
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Old 07-06-2018   #33
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The 50/2.8 Elmar is a fine lens, but I will never give up my Collapsible Summicron, for its soft-sharp look wide open, and the tack-sharp rendition stopped down.


50mm Collapsible Summicron at f/2 on Leica M2
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Old 07-07-2018   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayernfan View Post
post some pics when you've made them.
Nothing more than snapshots from my first roll...





On this one it looks like I might have slight light leaks around the shutter. I only get this occasionally though, not on all shots.








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