New 4x5 enlarging option by Intrepid
Old 09-06-2018   #1
Laterna Magica
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New 4x5 enlarging option by Intrepid

Intrepid has designed an option to use their 4x5 camera as an enlarger:
https://intrepidcamera.co.uk/blog/in...repid-enlarger

A kickstarter project is planned to make it happen.
As someone who is working in his darkroom for years and loving the precision my Enlarger and my APO enlarging lenses from Schneider-Kreuznach and Rodenstock are giving me, I have to admit I am a bit sceptical about this solution. What do you think?
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Old 09-06-2018   #2
newsgrunt
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It is indeed interesting but imo, anyone who is serious about printing is going to use a proper enlarger that is always aligned.

And while it's sales speak, one also doesn't need a dedicated darkroom to print, in fact many use laundry rooms or bathrooms.

I'm sure they'll sell.
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Old 09-06-2018   #3
Jerevan
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If you can find another enlarger that is as small and (when time comes) readily available, any naysayers may feel free to give us a pointer.

Yes, perhaps you might not be able to make fine art prints from this one without some elbow grease, but enough to get you going, I think. But it also says "any 4x5 camera" so I guess you could hook it up to some other, more stable cameras.
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Old 09-06-2018   #4
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Can’t afford this sort of thing but...I do have a 4X5 and this gives me an idea.
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Old 09-06-2018   #5
MaxElmar
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Return of the mighty GRAFLARGER ! Don't forget your levels and lasers, kids.
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Old 09-06-2018   #6
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judging by the photos, looks like, for now at least, it only works with cameras that have a Graflok back. Hope they would make adapters for other cameras (Wista etc..) Could work on Speed or Crown Graphic
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Old 09-06-2018   #7
Sarcophilus Harrisii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerevan View Post
If you can find another enlarger that is as small and (when time comes) readily available, any naysayers may feel free to give us a pointer.

Yes, perhaps you might not be able to make fine art prints from this one without some elbow grease, but enough to get you going, I think. But it also says "any 4x5 camera" so I guess you could hook it up to some other, more stable cameras.
It’s surprising what can turn up if you’re persistent. I acquired a 4x5” Durst and 4x5” De Vere enlargers last month free of charge so they are out there in many locations if you look hard enough. Compact, well, not so much, but available, yes, though I can’t speak for Sweden.

The proposed device sounds interesting actually. Not because I need a 4x5” enlarger—I don’t—I have at least three, and a 5x7”. What I do need is a darkroom. But Linhof certainly made it possible to use their Technikas as enlargers, and at one point supplied a cold light head to do just that. And a copy stand/enlarger for mounting their camera to for the purpose. I have a Linhof stand (yes, another freebie) and a Linhof to attach to it, and rigidity is a trait that is assuredly not in short supply. It would be quite interesting to try it.
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Old 09-06-2018   #8
Larry Cloetta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcophilus Harrisii View Post
It’s surprising what can turn up if you’re persistent. I acquired a 4x5” Durst and 4x5” De Vere enlargers last month free of charge so they are out there in many locations if you look hard enough. Compact, well, not so much, but available, yes, though I can’t speak for Sweden.

The proposed device sounds interesting actually. Not because I need a 4x5” enlarger—I don’t—I have at least three, and a 5x7”. What I do need is a darkroom. But Linhof certainly made it possible to use their Technikas as enlargers, and at one point supplied a cold light head to do just that. And a copy stand/enlarger for mounting their camera to for the purpose. I have a Linhof stand (yes, another freebie) and a Linhof to attach to it, and rigidity is a trait that is assuredly not in short supply. It would be quite interesting to try it.
Yes, I would think that if one had the room and the funds for a darkroom, they would have room for a normal sized, purpose built enlarger and the funds for same, since they go for peanuts these days. Admittedly, I may be missing something here in the understanding of the need for turning one’s camera into a rickety enlarger.
But, it’s nice to see that companies like Intrepid actually exist and are apparently doing well.
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Old 09-06-2018   #9
Steve M.
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It looks doable in a Rube Goldberg way, but you still need to buy a good enlarging lens that would cover 4x5 negs, which is not cheap, as well as lenses for 35mm and 120. You can NOT use a camera lens effectively and get good prints. Then there's the negative carriers for different negative sizes that you need to buy. There's also no condenser. You might want one for 4x5 to get the light bright enough to avoid long exposures and get the corners sharp. Didn't see a filter drawer on it either, and you will need a really sturdy, steady and tall tripod (i.e., expensive) to make large prints. In the photo on the ad, they have a pitifully small print they intend on making.....with a 4x5 neg? Good luck on the alignment too. Just get a real enlarger. You'll be a lot happier and get beautiful large prints. Clearly a concept that was not thought out.
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Old 09-06-2018   #10
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What Steve said
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Old 09-06-2018   #11
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This will absolutely sell like hotcakes. And you all should be supportive of this endeavor too, because more interest in traditional film/printing means more sales, which means a better outlook for the longevity of film and silver printing.

You old guard think it's so simple, to find an enlarger and get printing. But for the younger folks who are interested in it, it's not. Enlargers are new territory and many do not know what they need, how to set it up, etc. - not to mention the difficulty in finding used enlargers at a reasonable price and distance. Oh, and go price a NEW enlarger, you might be surprised. I was lucky to find a retiring photographer who sold me an entire darkroom setup for peanuts about 10 years ago.

This product helps establish the Intrepid brand as one that can provide you with everything you need to shoot and print, save for lenses I suppose. This is a good thing as well.

It's absolutely an "entry-level" enlarger. But perfectly usable for those looking to try out silver printing. And you can use your taking lens just fine. The extra bit of resolution from a dedicated enlarging lens is really not a big deal.

I won't be buying one as I have two Beseler 4x5 enlargers and a fully-stocked darkroom, but I applaud the effort. And, if they move up to an 8x10 sized one, I will definitely be interested. I have an old Calumet carcass waiting to be built into an 8x10 enlarger. Haven't had the time to build out an LED panel and solve the film holder issue, but if they solve that with a purchasable product, I'll be first in line.
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Old 09-06-2018   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxElmar View Post
Return of the mighty GRAFLARGER ! Don't forget your levels and lasers, kids.
I used one of those back-in-the-day.

Graflargers were cold light diffusion systems. Illuminations was very even and the print times were very reasonable. Mine fit a standard Graflok back, with the ground glass panel removed of course. I had to build my own back for my Nagaoka camera as it was spring back only. Since the Nagaoka's back was removable to switch betwen horizontal and vertical, it was a simple matter for a decent woodworker to create a back to hold the Graflarger. Keeping the camera aligned was a real pain, though.
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Old 09-06-2018   #13
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Originally Posted by Dwig View Post
I used one of those back-in-the-day.

Graflargers were cold light diffusion systems. Illuminations was very even and the print times were very reasonable. Mine fit a standard Graflok back, with the ground glass panel removed of course. I had to build my own back for my Nagaoka camera as it was spring back only. Since the Nagaoka's back was removable to switch betwen horizontal and vertical, it was a simple matter for a decent woodworker to create a back to hold the Graflarger. Keeping the camera aligned was a real pain, though.
Same for me - I thought they worked fine - just had to make a negative holder.
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Old 09-07-2018   #14
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Thank you all for your thoughts and assessments!
Very interesting to read.
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Old 09-07-2018   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxElmar View Post
Return of the mighty GRAFLARGER ! Don't forget your levels and lasers, kids.
i think the Graflarger is a better choice. Only worthwhile if you're traveling and using the motel bathroom for enlarging -
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Old 09-07-2018   #16
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I gave a 23CII and 45MX enlarger away a couple years ago because I couldn't find anyone willing to buy them for $25. Included lenses, boards,etc.
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Old 09-08-2018   #17
KeithH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
This will absolutely sell like hotcakes. And you all should be supportive of this endeavor too, because more interest in traditional film/printing means more sales, which means a better outlook for the longevity of film and silver printing.

You old guard think it's so simple, to find an enlarger and get printing. But for the younger folks who are interested in it, it's not. Enlargers are new territory and many do not know what they need, how to set it up, etc. - not to mention the difficulty in finding used enlargers at a reasonable price and distance. Oh, and go price a NEW enlarger, you might be surprised. I was lucky to find a retiring photographer who sold me an entire darkroom setup for peanuts about 10 years ago.

This product helps establish the Intrepid brand as one that can provide you with everything you need to shoot and print, save for lenses I suppose. This is a good thing as well.

It's absolutely an "entry-level" enlarger. But perfectly usable for those looking to try out silver printing. And you can use your taking lens just fine. The extra bit of resolution from a dedicated enlarging lens is really not a big deal.

I won't be buying one as I have two Beseler 4x5 enlargers and a fully-stocked darkroom, but I applaud the effort. And, if they move up to an 8x10 sized one, I will definitely be interested. I have an old Calumet carcass waiting to be built into an 8x10 enlarger. Haven't had the time to build out an LED panel and solve the film holder issue, but if they solve that with a purchasable product, I'll be first in line.
+1

Although thriving, the LF photography scene here in the UK is a world apart from what you guys in the US have in terms of gear and prices and certainly folks here are not falling over themselves to give stuff away, especially enlargers so any initiative to encourge the use of LF is more than welcome.

For some amongst us there may be alignment issues (in a 10x8" print of the beautiful Yorkshire Dales landscape just how would you tell that the enlarger alignment is a fraction of an inch out?) but for many of us cash-strapped amateurs the joy of being able to easily produce silver gelatin prints instead of scanned images from our belove 5x4 negatives without having to re-mortgage the house for an enlarger is a dream come true.

I despair that anyone would denigrate an initiative to help encourage LF hybrid users into LF format silver printing, after all, don't we need as many users as we can get to keep the manufacturers producing it and there is a wealth of help available in forums on the 'net to help newbies along the way.
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Old 09-08-2018   #18
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I despair that anyone would denigrate an initiative to help encourage LF hybrid users into LF format silver printing, after all, don't we need as many users as we can get to keep the manufacturers producing it and there is a wealth of help available in forums on the 'net to help newbies along the way.
Don't think of it as denigration or as trying to discourage new silver printers. "Rah-rah! Film!" cheerleading is not the only useful contribution one can make.

Many experienced people (in any field) know that one's tools can make the activity or job a joy or a frustration. A poor tool can actually kill enthusiasm by the new or curious person when results are poor or the tool is frustrating to use. The criticism I see in this thread should be looked at in this vein: experienced printers waving a red flag that in actual use this product may actually be difficult to use (EDIT: and/or involve non-trivial expenses that may not be obvious to the new printer). The implication (unspoken, thus far) is that such things (while possibly making money for the people who produce the tool) can quite easily drive others who want to try printing away from it in the long term rather than bringing them into the fold for good.

An unrelated example: as a wooden spoon carver, I would never recommend a new carver purchase the Mora curved knife (Mora straight carving knives are wonderful, but the spoon knife is an abomination). Yes, it's cheap and easily found, but it is impossible to use well to carve the bowl of a spoon without doing serious modification and remedial sharpening. It will only frustrate a new carver (an old one too for that matter). For better or worse, the new carver -- even someone just "curious" about spoon carving -- really needs to spend 8x as much money to get a proper spoon knife that will work properly (and safely too).

I see something similar happening here: the critical impulse in this thread really isn't trying to stifle enthusiasm for silver gelatin printing, but simply comes from a longer-term perspective that has a perfectly honorable motive.
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Intrepid's Graflarger
Old 12-05-2018   #19
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Intrepid's Graflarger

What Papercut said!!

The Graflarger was pretty silly at the time, and Intrepid's version looks even more troublesome. You do not encourage people newly interested in B&W photography to invest and support us but falsely steering them into poor equipment just because its sales will enhance the economic stability of its manufacturer. You just cause them to throw over the whole idea of B&W photography and move on to some other activity. Personally, I hope Intrepid takes both criticism and an economic loss on the thing - a lesson on respecting your customers.
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Old 12-06-2018   #20
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I'd rather they put the money into better alignment mechanisms, than to include a timer. LF enlargers may or may not be easy to find but timers are a dime a dozen.
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Old 12-06-2018   #21
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Somewhere I have the Linhof version of this. Any one who can't make it work probably doesn't know understand about LF to be shooting it. The only drawback with the Linhof cold light head is that it's very blue.

But as others have said, why bother when you can get enlargers for little or nothing?

Cheers,

R.
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Old 12-06-2018   #22
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Quote:
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...The only drawback with the Linhof cold light head is that it's very blue.
...
it might seem to be a drawback now, but back-in-the-day it was an extreme advantage.

It means that there is little of the lower end of the spectrum present during focusing. B&W paper doesn't see this so more of the red would be no aid to exposure. It is a hindrance when attempting to focus most period enlarging lenses, which were often optimized for the blue and green portion of the spectrum and exhibited some focus shift in the reds.
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Old 12-06-2018   #23
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When I was 13 I made in enlarger out of old postcard size folder camera
with a light bulb, cardboard and tape balancing on a counter and
projecting onto the floor. Those were the days!
Today I've got 4 enlargers taking over my living space.

An alt use is for a set up in a van or camper temp like.

rich
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