Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Leicas and other Leica Mount Cameras > Leica M Film Cameras

View Poll Results: New ZM or Mint M7? Why?
ZM 448 45.57%
M7 535 54.43%
Voters: 983. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

M7 or a Zeiss Ikon ZM?
Old 03-15-2009   #1
kshapero
Growing with experience
 
kshapero's Avatar
 
kshapero is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Age: 70
Posts: 9,889
Question M7 or a Zeiss Ikon ZM?

Used mint m7 or new ZM?
__________________
akiva

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kshapero

Cameras, Lenses and Photos
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #2
Krosya
Konicaze
 
Krosya's Avatar
 
Krosya is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,476
Wasnt this done/asked here, like 2000000000000000 times?
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
35mm Rangefinders : Leica M5 and RD1S w/ many M and LTM lenses

Folders
:
Welta Weltur 6x6/645, Welta Weltur 6x9/645


flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #3
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
 
rxmd's Avatar
 
rxmd is offline
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kyrgyzstan
Posts: 5,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krosya View Post
Wasnt this done/asked here, like 2000000000000000 times?
Yes, but not yet by everybody. (Courtesy of Karl Valentin.)

Also I like the "why?" in the poll question, as if I could do anything else except clicking on one of the two options.
__________________
Bing! You're hypnotized!
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #4
b.espahbod
Optophile
 
b.espahbod's Avatar
 
b.espahbod is offline
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 192
this is 2000000000000001st

but whatever you like
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #5
astroman
-
 
astroman is offline
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 218
Ziess Ikon,why because I own one

And lets be nice people
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #6
35mmdelux
#Represent
 
35mmdelux's Avatar
 
35mmdelux is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,227
I comes down to two items: 1) the industrial construction of the M7, and 2) affordability.

My choice M7.
__________________
M-E │ 21 asph │ 35 asph │ 75 asph
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #7
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,655
M7 ... because I'm a born again Leica snob!
__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #8
helenhill
Mod chasing Shadows Light
 
helenhill's Avatar
 
helenhill is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New Yawk
Posts: 5,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
M7 ... because I'm a born again Leica snob!
hehehe........

Best to YOU- H
__________________
Flickr.

________________________
To the question "what are you after when You shoot"
I respond: The Moment...The Memory of what Once was
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #9
lewis44
Registered User
 
lewis44's Avatar
 
lewis44 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 603
M7.... Owned two and neither one had a problem. Took a Lickin' and kept on Tickin'
__________________
Randy
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #10
aizan
Registered User
 
aizan's Avatar
 
aizan is offline
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Torrance, CA
Age: 37
Posts: 4,666
whichever one looks the best with the lenses you have or want to get. =)
__________________
Ugly Cameras
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #11
hiromu
Registered User
 
hiromu's Avatar
 
hiromu is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: TN, USA
Posts: 196
If you shoot with AE, go with ZI as M7's compensation is not easiest to use. If you expose manually, then go with M6.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-11-2010   #12
steveyork
Registered User
 
steveyork is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiromu View Post
If you shoot with AE, go with ZI as M7's compensation is not easiest to use. If you expose manually, then go with M6.
Yes, the compensation on the back of the is not very convenient.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #13
bennyng
Benny Ng
 
bennyng's Avatar
 
bennyng is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tokyo/Singapore
Posts: 906
I have both ZI and M7. I will always pick the ZI over the M7 as it handles much better, has cleaner framelines and a fantastic viewfinder. AE is a breeze too.

Cheers,
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #14
calexg
Registered User
 
calexg's Avatar
 
calexg is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 131
For the record, I have never touched either. Having said that, I would go the Zeiss Ikon.

Why?

Because it has a brighter viewfinder. Because the way you adjust exposure compensation is genius. Because it's smaller and lighter. Because the rangefinder baselength is longer.

I bought my M4-2 because I wanted something tough and manual--no electronics whatsoever. I use the camera to take pictures of things that give me time to think about exposure. If I wanted to shoot candids or street shots, I would probably go for a camera with AE--something small, lightweight, and inconspicuous. It would be the Zeiss Ikon, for sure. It costs less, and I don't care that it's not as heavy-duty as the M7 because I don't see myself ever treating it poorly (that's what the M4-2 is for!).

Just my 2¢.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-11-2010   #15
steveyork
Registered User
 
steveyork is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by calexg View Post
For the record, I have never touched either. Having said that, I would go the Zeiss Ikon.

Why?

Because it has a brighter viewfinder.
As I recall, not so much brighter as bigger. Better eye relief. Negated a bit by the wobbly focusing patch. With a Leica, the focusing patc just snaps together. No so with the ZM.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #16
Avotius
Some guy
 
Avotius's Avatar
 
Avotius is offline
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,520
for sure my choice would be the m7 because I have had the experience of 3 ZI's that had serious enough "must return" defects out of the box. I also prefer the shutter speed readout on the m7.

Last edited by Avotius : 03-15-2009 at 20:07.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #17
maddoc
... likes film.
 
maddoc's Avatar
 
maddoc is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 名古屋
Age: 54
Posts: 7,318
I have neither owned an M7 nor an ZI but played with both of them, the M7 had the better exposure info and much clearer rangefinder patch, the ZI has easier to see 28mm frame lines (wearing glasses). Since a clear and contrasty RF patch is more important for me than frame lines, I would buy the M7 if I had to choose between them.

On th eother hand, best value for the money is still the Hexar RF, IMHO.
__________________
- Gabor

flickr
pBase
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #18
calexg
Registered User
 
calexg's Avatar
 
calexg is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddoc View Post
On th eother hand, best value for the money is still the Hexar RF, IMHO.
Good point. OP: I'd consider the Hexar as well.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #19
35mmdelux
#Represent
 
35mmdelux's Avatar
 
35mmdelux is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,227
The .58 mag black M7 I shoot with is seriously unbelievable for the 35mm framelines. The AE makes shooting a piece of cake and the exp comp couldn't be easier (slight twist of the wheel) AFAIK.
__________________
M-E │ 21 asph │ 35 asph │ 75 asph
  Reply With Quote

get both
Old 03-15-2009   #20
matt335
Registered User
 
matt335's Avatar
 
matt335 is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 491
get both

If you go the M7 then you can probably afford the Ikon as well. Last week I held both cameras in my hands helping a friend make similar decision, and looked very closely at them both. The Ikon is a top little camera. I would actually prefer a M6TTL. It's also about "how it feels in your hands" and how "easily you bring it to your eye and grab an image". I think you will find that a M7 will last longer. Good luck with your decision. Getting a Leica is a lifetime decision. A friend for life.
__________________
kind regards, Matt
www.mattsutton.com.au
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #21
drewbarb
picnic like it's 1999
 
drewbarb's Avatar
 
drewbarb is offline
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 1,447
Never owned either one, but I've handled and looked through both.

Issues can crop up with any camera- and there are documented potential issues with each of these; but having read some about the subject, and talked with and listened to owners of both, I'd spend my money on a ZI first.

Reasons I'll cite are the faster flash sync and better (bigger, brighter, more flare resistant) finder- as well as the fact that I already have M3's, which will remain my primary 35mm shooters for now.
__________________
-drew

Last edited by drewbarb : 03-15-2009 at 23:47.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-15-2009   #22
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,655
Interesting that the two choices are running virtually neck and neck ... I started a similar poll about a year ago and the Ikon was a decisive winner.

I subsequently went on to sell my M7 and buy an Ikon and have no regrets ... in very low light shooting the Zeiss has no peer IMO. I do miss the feel of the M7 but would never buy another one as there were a couple of things about it that bothered me ... now and then though I do get overpowering urges to own a black paint MP!
__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-16-2009   #23
Sam N
Registered User
 
Sam N's Avatar
 
Sam N is offline
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: California
Posts: 563
I'm surprised that this is the M forum (as opposed to general RF or the ZI forum) and there is a tie. That speaks to how impressive the ZI is.

Anyway a new ZI would still cost way less than a used M7.

I tried to think of something I don't like about the ZI and I can't really think of anything.... maybe the fact that the tripod socket isn't centered, but the same applies to the M7. I've only tried using a tripod w/ it once anyway.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-16-2009   #24
elshaneo
Panographer
 
elshaneo's Avatar
 
elshaneo is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 39
Posts: 480
My Personal Choice would definitely be the Leica M7, and in case that You want to sell it later, You won't likely lose anything on the resale value.
__________________
Best Regards
Shane Lam

http://shanelam.zenfolio.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-16-2009   #25
mfogiel
Registered User
 
mfogiel's Avatar
 
mfogiel is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Monaco
Posts: 4,658
The question is a bit confusing. The ZI comes only in the .74 magnification, and in my opinion outclasses the 0.72x M7 as a photographic tool, except for:
- a slightly higher noise level
- a MARGINALLY more delicate body - this includes the usual periodic RF misalignment
,on the other hand, not being built like a tank it also weighs less than a tank...

However, in other magnifications, the ZI simply does not exist, and so having to choose between a Bessa R3A or R4A and a M7 0.85 or 0.58, I definitely prefer the Leica, in fact I am looking to buy a 0.58x one currently...
  Reply With Quote

ZM or M7?
Old 04-14-2009   #26
bherman
bherman
 
bherman is offline
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Shrewsbury, MA
Posts: 160
ZM or M7?

I never owned a Zeiss Ikon, but I rented one for a few days.

Positives:

Lighter (just a bit)

Wider Baseline (supposed to be more accurate focusing)

Larger, 'high-eyepoint' viewfinder

Larger non-Leica service network

Negatives:

Not as robust or as durable as the M7

Images didn't snap into focus as well for me as with the M7

Potential for replacement parts issues

Resale value (The M7 is Leica's flagship automatic "M-Series". they won't release another automatic film-based body. Ever.

If I were me, and I were to buy my first Leica, and you prefer the automation of the M7 or Zeiss, (and you had the additional $500.00-$1000.00) I would go with the M7. If this were a second body for backup, I wouldn't hesitate to get the Zeiss.

It's all a matter of personal taste though.

Brad
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-05-2011   #27
errorlogin
Love vintage Hifi, too!
 
errorlogin's Avatar
 
errorlogin is offline
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Gross-Zimmern, Germany
Posts: 208
I voted for the Leica.

Because the Leica is still a Leica. The Zeiss Ikon has nothing at all to do with the real old Zeiss Ikon cameras.

It might be a good camera but the name is not honest. It is not a Zeiss Ikon.
If it had a completely different name, I would probably buy it. But not as long as it has "Zeiss Ikon" written on it!

Same with Voigtländer....

And many other glorious old names like "Dual", "Grundig", "Telefunken".
And many old glorious german piano makers which were gone long time ago. Companies just use their good name and reputation for something cra***

Why can't they give them a new name, when they create something new???
__________________
Regards Jan.

Last edited by errorlogin : 02-05-2011 at 05:58.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-05-2011   #28
jawarden
Registered User
 
jawarden is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by errorlogin View Post

It might be a good camera but the name is not honest. It is not a Zeiss Ikon.
If it had a completely different name, I would probably buy it.
Come on.

We're talking about a company taking a risk here, making a film camera that is also a manual focus rangefinder - a niche within a niche - and your biggest gripe is that they resurrected a product name from the past, a name that they own?

And if it were called the Whizzer Comet you'd own it?

__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 02-05-2011   #29
errorlogin
Love vintage Hifi, too!
 
errorlogin's Avatar
 
errorlogin is offline
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Gross-Zimmern, Germany
Posts: 208
Whizzer Comet....haha. Why not!

Or maybe Jupiter, Kiev or Fed. No, just kidding.

__________________
Regards Jan.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-05-2011   #30
whitecat
Lone Range(find)er
 
whitecat's Avatar
 
whitecat is offline
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,362
I have both but voted for the ZM for one reason. An important reason....brighter viewfinder.
__________________
My Gallery



Zeiss Ikon Zm, Olympus Trip, Rolleiflex FX, Yashica Electro 35, Nikon 35 TI, Nikon 28 TI, Widelux F7, Contax TVS III, Zeiss Ikon 35, Minox, Olympus 35 EE3, Konica AA 35, Minox 35 GT, Canonet QL17, and many more....
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-28-2012   #31
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,223
Having used both, and despite wanting to like the ZI more, I found I just preferred the Leica. Felt nicer to me.

I didn't buy either. Went for an M4-2 instead.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-16-2009   #32
notturtle
Registered User
 
notturtle is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 343
mfogiel, The 0.58 body is fantastic for 24-35....

I like the feel of the leicas and they fit my hands. Others think differently; however, it mattered enough to me to get several MPs so the handling is the same on every body. It hurt, but was worth it to me.

I think it is also fair to say that RF misalignment is more frequently reported with the Z1, but that is not a major issue for everyone. I don't want my RF drifting as it will be three months before I can get it fixed. However, the real clincher for me was simply how the thing felt in my hands.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-16-2009   #33
philipp.leser
Registered User
 
philipp.leser is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 83
A new ZM comes with a warranty while a used M7 would probably not.

It's a tough decision. While buying a Bessa is usually motivated by their low cost, the ZM is a serious contender to the M7 and looks just as beautiful.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-16-2009   #34
gavinlg
Registered User
 
gavinlg's Avatar
 
gavinlg is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wellington NZ
Posts: 5,093
I'd go the ZM, because it's a little different, lighter, better VF, higher shutter speeds etc.

I'd have an MP over a ZM but a ZM over nearly everything else.
__________________
NO PRAISE
@gavinlagrange
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-16-2009   #35
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
 
ClaremontPhoto's Avatar
 
ClaremontPhoto is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Alentejo
Posts: 5,242
That's two people who would choose a camera because of how it looks.

Now, should I use Kodak film (yellow box) or Fuji film (green box), which one looks better?
__________________
.

R.I.P. 2009

Jon


ClaremontPhoto


Box of Chocolates
A Gray Area
Panoramic
Friends & Neighbors



"I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me." Noel Coward
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-16-2009   #36
RichardB
Registered User
 
RichardB is offline
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 316
I have two M7's with older style ASA detection. No problems. They are both 0.85 finders and I use 21mm 2.8 ASPH, 35mm Lux ASPH, 75 ASPH , 90 ASPH and 135mm 2.8. I have the 50mm 2.8M but have never had the need for it. I usually have motor M's on both M7's but do have a Leicavit. Exposure compensation is fast and easy once you learn to depress the shutter button and move the aperature rather than the comp dial. Never had a singe problem and the ergonomics with the Motor M's is superb.
I'm sure the Zeiss is a very well made camera. I have a Zeiss 21mm finder and its very bright well made Japanese component.
But the M7 has more drives available(at least what I ws able to find on the Zeiss site) and coming from M3 and M6 land, just feels good and does what i want when I want with minimal effort. !/2000 versas 1/1000 is really meaningless comparison.
I would advise that you use both in the configuration you will want i.e lenses/motors/Leicavit and then make a decision. Good luck!-Dick
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-16-2009   #37
marke
Registered User
 
marke's Avatar
 
marke is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Age: 61
Posts: 1,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaremontPhoto View Post
That's two people who would choose a camera because of how it looks.

Now, should I use Kodak film (yellow box) or Fuji film (green box), which one looks better?
Well now, that all depends on what kind of mood you're in. If you're in a sunny mood, the green box might give all your pictures a magenta cast. Choose wisely.
__________________
- markE

Leica MP & M3
Summilux 50/f1.4, Summicron 35/f2.0ASPH, Elmar-M 50/f2.8, VC-CS 25/f4

Leica IIIfRD
Summitar 50/f2.0
http://www.pbase.com/marke
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-16-2009   #38
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,655
Impressive that the Zeiss has pulled ahead of the Leica in votes ... because the M7 in reality is a hell of a camera.

It's also interesting the way these two brilliant rangefinders seem to go head to head quite often here on the forum.
__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-16-2009   #39
notturtle
Registered User
 
notturtle is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
Impressive that the Zeiss has pulled ahead of the Leica in votes ... because the M7 in reality is a hell of a camera.

It's also interesting the way these two brilliant rangefinders seem to go head to head quite often here on the forum.
its great we have a choice - between the Bessas, Z1s and Leicas most budgets are catered for. Who would have predicted that 5 years ago? ... and we have the R4A/M, loads of new lenses etc.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-16-2009   #40
Sam N
Registered User
 
Sam N's Avatar
 
Sam N is offline
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: California
Posts: 563
The framelines are an interesting point. I (like many people) don't use any RF lenses longer than 50mm, but I think a 35/75 combo might be nice. It seems like the only available m-mount 85mm is the extremely expensive German-made Zeiss. On the other hand, the ZI's VF is less cluttered (only 4 framelines total vs 6).

Another bonus with the ZI is that it never had a problem with patch flare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by notturtle View Post
its great we have a choice - between the Bessas, Z1s and Leicas most budgets are catered for. Who would have predicted that 5 years ago? ... and we have the R4A/M, loads of new lenses etc.
Agreed, but it's a ZI (Zeiss Ikon) not Z1. I see this a lot with roman numerals (people writing "Canon 1D Mark 111") but the I in ZI isn't even a number.

Last edited by Sam N : 03-16-2009 at 11:20.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:25.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.