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View Poll Results: New ZM or Mint M7? Why?
ZM 448 45.57%
M7 535 54.43%
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Old 03-28-2013   #321
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Well I found a ZI in the classifieds here on the forum and it arrived yesterday. Initial impressions are very positive. I love the fact that both the 35mm & 50mm framelines aren't cluttered up with other framelines and it seems well made and looks good too. Will start taking pictures at the weekend.
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Old 04-01-2013   #322
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The Ikon was my first rangefinder and the slimness and handling were a hard target to match in another camera. The viewfinder made even the Leica VF look kind of cramped and dark, almost amplifying the incoming light. But the top plate bends if you squeeze it, and the advance lever is not as smooth as a M7. The M7 is rock solid (and appropriately heavier) and the shutter and advance lever are smooth as silk. The M7 is more enjoyable to shoot but not so much to carry all day.

There was an odd metering issue with my Ikon at one point, where a whole roll came out underexposed. The ISO was set correctly, which made it a strange occurrence.

Fondle camera = M7.

Shoot and carry all day camera = Ikon.

RIP Zeiss Ikon. We, the faithful, will sing your praises!
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Old 05-09-2013   #323
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I voted ZI a while back because that's what I would have picked if both cameras were available to me and what I would have picked if any sub-$2000 RF was available to me whether with or without AE.

However, now that I bought one, I cannot get used to the feel of the camera. The VF is big, but the disappearing, low-contrast RF patch were enough of a turn of to make me miss the R2a and the rock-solid, never waver, never dim M4. Size matters, and the ZI wins in that respect, but it is not the only factor in a good VF/RF combo, and I think Leica (I can only compare it to an M4) wins.

Speaking of disapearing acts, I actually like the fading meter on the ZI, gone when looking at the VF frames, and there when I peeked left. After being used to the zen purity of meterless VFs, I appreciated not having bright red numbers blinking at me the whole time.

Finally, I'm not a pro, so I shoot for the pleasure of it, and the ZI never felt as good in use as the Leica, though the light weight felt good on my shoulder! As a result, it stays home more.
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Old 05-09-2013   #324
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If you don`t wear eye-glasses, the ZI finder might be OK but wearing glasses it is very easy to not keeping your eyes centered and then the missing RF patch drives you nuts. I tried the ZI one night (while living in Sapporo) and gave up after a couple of attempts to focus that camera ...

The ISO dial of the M7 on the other hand ... still wondering why neither Leica Solms nor Leica Ginza were able to fix that thing ..
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Old 05-10-2013   #325
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Having switched to an M9 a while ago, and having owned and sold an M6 and two ZI, I believe I can now give an impartial opinion since I don't have the cameras anymore.

What I loved about the Leica and disliked about the ZI is build quality, RF consistency and metering.
What I loved about the ZI and disliked about the Leica is the viewfinder brightness and contrast, film loading, and better designed features.

If I have to buy a film RF again, I will get the M7.
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Old 06-04-2013   #326
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One of the strangest things about the two ZI's I owned was that the strap lugs on both were slowly being worn through. Everything else was great, but that was literally a "make it or break it" feature.

I just ordered an M7, so that's my vote.
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Still Shooting ZI
Old 06-08-2013   #327
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Still Shooting ZI

I own an M7 and a ZI and I am still shooting the ZI almost daily. Once in awhile I pull out the M7 and "fondle" it for awhile, but the minute I begin remembering the viewfinder flare and the burned holes in the shutter curtains (which took a fast $300 from my wallet) I put it away again. The ZI's disappearing rangefinder patch happens less and less as using the camera becomes 2nd nature to me. For me it rarely happens now and when it does it is very quickly resolved. I still rant about the shutter speed indicator that becomes impossible to see in bright sunlight, but my rants occur less and less as I come to realize that the lack of a shutter speed readout has never really bothered me with my Leica II. So why should this be an issue to me just because I am using the ZI?

Believe it or not, the thing that stops me from just selling the M7 outright is that hard to describe (and harder to justify) feeling of continuity I have when I am holding and using that camera. I don't have that same feeling with the ZI because there really is no long, continuous history behind it. And now that it is discontinued it seems that there will be no history that will grow into the future. I do enjoy working with Leica cameras and I truly do understand this feeling.

But, my vote stays with the ZI because, for my way of working, it is a more practical and useable alternative to the M7.
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Old 03-27-2014   #328
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Quote:
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Used mint m7 or new ZM?
Funny I started this. I have owned and loved both, but the M3 endures.
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Old 03-27-2014   #329
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It's interesting. When I was making that same decision I actually held both in my hands and an M6. Zeiss just felt better in my hands and nothing beats that viewfinder. The patch took a bit of getting used to. The only problem I encountered with my ZM is that for some reason batteries freeze very quickly in cold weather and that is a problem where I live. It's a bit better if you use CR 1/3N instead of two LR44 or whatever the number is. Right now my ZM is at Zeiss service to get the rangefinder realigned and frame counter fixed after an unfortunate drop. I feel like a bit of me is missing and am experiencing anxiety waiting for it to get back to me - I am only half joking. It's been the best camera I ever worked with and I worked with a lot of them.
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Old 03-27-2014   #330
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Still shooting the ZI and still not any issues. After well over a year of pretty much continuous use the rangefinder patch is a total non-issue. I am gong to order a correcting diopter, as soon as I figure out which one I need, as I have noted that seeing the shutter speed indicator in the viewfinder is a lot easier if I am not using glasses.

The ZI is simply a terrific camera.
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Old 03-27-2014   #331
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Most of my film cameras are w/o any electronics.

The exception is a Nikkormat with a TTL light meter and a Mamiya 645 with a TTL light meter and can be used for electronic exposure control. The Mamiya has an electronic shutter. So far so good, the Nikkormat I bought around 1970 and the Mamiya around year 2000. I hardly use the Mamiya any more.

All of my Leica cameras are w/o any electronics.

I like that.

Thought I would pass on to you, perhaps in helping make a decision.
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Old 03-27-2014   #332
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My ZI is my favorite camera, bar none. I've never owned a Leica film camera, but I think it's leaps and bounds ahead of the M9 I owned. It's smaller, the meter display makes more sense and the finder / RF patch is a dream.
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Old 03-29-2014   #333
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After not using my ZI for about a year, I picked it up recently and reminded myself what a cracking camera it is.

I used to have an M7 and still pine for one though, despite the brilliance of the ZM.
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Old 03-31-2014   #334
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I had a M6 TTL and own a ZI right now. I do miss the solid build of Leica, and the feeling when you hands on it, master piece.
ZI's finder is superb, although the patch sometimes could be distracting.

If I had the money, I will buy a M7 and keep my ZI, they are different cameras.
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Old 04-14-2014   #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeturnum View Post
My ZI is my favorite camera, bar none. I've never owned a Leica film camera, but I think it's leaps and bounds ahead of the M9 I owned. It's smaller, the meter display makes more sense and the finder / RF patch is a dream.
ah yeah but an M9 is a digital camera. A different animal.
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Old 04-14-2014   #336
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An interesting review of the Zeiss Ikon here (with numerous references to the Leica competition):

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...er/zeiss-.html
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Old 06-08-2014   #337
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Quote:
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An interesting review of the Zeiss Ikon here (with numerous references to the Leica competition): http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...er/zeiss-.html
Well, very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 06-08-2014   #338
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Recently I tried a ZI and M7 (with newer MP flare free VF).

The most noticeable difference between them is when shooting at low light, the M7 RF patch has much better clarity and contrast compared to ZI. This alone will make me choose the M7.

I am really very tempted to get a M7.
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Old 06-10-2014   #339
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The M7 is sold now and no regrets. I still own a couple M3s and several Barnacks so I seriously doubt I will experience any withdrawal symptoms.

They are all great fun and I love them, but the ZI is still the workhorse. It has been a wonderful camera.

Although my strap lugs show no wear I picked up a pair of Optech Strap Loop Adaptors. This way there is no metal to metal contact.
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Old 08-01-2014   #340
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Pitching in support for the zeiss, and if you enjoy shooting with a 28mm, it's a hell of a viewfinder. I wear glasses for distance viewing, so a -2 diopter adjuster allows me to use it without having to use glasses. It's lighter than the leicas, it's well built, but uses thinner metals.
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Old 09-04-2014   #341
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The ikon has been great except for one instance of the RF being misaligned. That severely annoyed me considering I didn't knock it against anything. Suspected that using a sniper sling with it was a seriously bad idea.

But given the few dozen rolls I put through it before realignment and the few dozen after, I have to agree with Pioneer that it is a workhorse.

I'd say M7 lust while owning a ZI is usually marketing residue from being told that "leicas last forever". I'd be happy if the ZI gave me 10 more years on it
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Old 09-04-2014   #342
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At the end of the day the M7 will retain a higher re sale value.

That alone can not be ignored. YMMV
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Old 09-04-2014   #343
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Why sell perfection?

Use it instead.
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Old 09-04-2014   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
Why sell perfection?

Use it instead.
Bravo, well said.

Can't say I'm not personally tempted by other camera goodies, but the ikon for me is more than sufficient
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Old 09-05-2014   #345
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Why sell perfection?

Use it instead.
Don't get me wrong, It's a great camera but I won't be here forever.

My kids will get everything I have. They may or may not decide to sell my limited collection but if they do sell I want them to at least get a decent return.
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Old 09-05-2014   #346
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you guys realize this thread is now older than someone born 5 years ago, right?
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Old 09-05-2014   #347
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Just gettin old enough to go to kindergarten, right??
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Old 12-21-2014   #348
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back on topic: For some reason I bought a Leica M7 a few weeks ago. Everything in me said Ikon, but now that M7 is here. I always thought I prefer the Hexar RF anyway (and in a way, I still do), but there is something about owning the "real thing", as childish as that may seem.

Really the most important factor to me was how AE lock works. M7 -> half press of the shutter, just like my SLRs used to work. The extra button on the Ikon bothered me.
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Old 12-21-2014   #349
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I enjoy shooting Leica. I just picked up a brand new M-A and I am really, really enjoying it. So much so that it has moved into the regular rotation with the ikon that my Bessa used to hold.

I love these rangefinders. It will be lots of fun to see which one needs to be serviced first. The ZI or the MA?
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Old 05-17-2015   #350
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Go for the Zeiss. I have had both and the Zeiss viewfinder is crisper, brighter, has more contrast, not to mention brighter frame lines.
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Old 05-17-2015   #351
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Quote:
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I love these rangefinders. It will be lots of fun to see which one needs to be serviced first. The ZI or the MA?
I actually have neither of these cameras, but my only worry about the Zeiss would be ongoing service support, with a small production run and the discontinuance of the cameras,

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Old 05-17-2015   #352
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Ummm
Don't own either, but, I have been researching the M7, for a future purchase..

M7... last Film RF... about $2300 average..It's a Leica after all...

Z1... short lived production for some reason? About $750-1000 used to new, (156xxxx are better made?)
similar in function, had a few QC issues that a repair would fix, so, a Z1 and spend a few $$ to have it checked out and a CLA...
Should be care free for a while. is still a better deal.
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Old 05-17-2015   #353
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Quote:
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Ummm
Don't own either, but, I have been researching the M7, for a future purchase..

M7... last Film RF... about $2300 average..It's a Leica after all...

Z1... short lived production for some reason? About $750-1000 used to new, (156xxxx are better made?)
similar in function, had a few QC issues that a repair would fix, so, a Z1 and spend a few $$ to have it checked out and a CLA...
Should be care free for a while. is still a better deal.
The M-A is Leica's most recent film RF camera. It might be too early to say "last" ... ;-)

As much as the ZI has some technical improvements on the kind, I'd prefer buying a Leica M7 for the service available now and into the future. That said, I tend to prefer the meterless film Ms for their simplicity.

G
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Old 05-17-2015   #354
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An M7 with everything only ask for $1850, what are you waiting for?
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Old 05-18-2015   #355
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I've had an M7 and currently have a ZM.

If only the camera existed that had the ZM's viewfinder and the M7's feel - that would be near perfect.

Both magnificent but neither is quite perfect in its own right.

I do keep thinking about getting another M7 though, selling mine was a mistake but I put it towards a M8 which I still have and still use so that wasn't a mistake.
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Old 05-18-2015   #356
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Probably not the most relevant for the discussion, but still - as nice as the ZM is (I had a chance to use it for couple of days some time back), it was in production just a few years - I do not expect any large quantities of replacement parts to be available in the long run.
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Old 05-18-2015   #357
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I sometimes don't understand people's concern about finding replacement parts for certain cameras.

I understand the concern and worry if buying an expensive Leica camera that is supposed to last a lifetime. Will parts still be made in X-amount of years? Who can fix my Leica if Leica suddenly ceases to exist? I get that.

But for a camera like the Zeiss Ikon, it's relatively cheap to buy it used (in comparison to a Leica). These cameras are quite capable and I'm sure they will be able to last a great many years. If and when one day it needs to be fixed and if Zeiss won't fix them, then perhaps just get another used one?

The romantic idea of having used the same camera for most of one's lifetime is a nice thought. But I reckon when I am old and look back at pictures I've taken throughout my life I'd be more appreciative of the images I can enjoy and share, rather than the fact I've used a same camera most of my life.

Regarding the Zeiss Ikon vs. Leica M7: They're both splendid cameras, but as another poster said they're not quite perfect in each their own way. I wish Leica could take some improvements from the Ikon and make an M7.2
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Old 06-03-2015   #358
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I'm probably wrong but there are so many older Leica cameras being used out there that the repair-ability is part of the Leica identity.

Ergo, any other rangefinder that is part of the market, particularly those who use the M or screwmount, will be compared against that particular part of the Leica identity.

I think this is particularly true of the Zeiss Ikon. The Bessa has never been considered a direct competitor of Leica, rather more of a poor man's rangefinder. The Zeiss Ikon has been touted by users and reviewers as equal, and in some cases superior, to the Leica. That puts the Zeiss Ikon in direct competition with the entire Leica experience, including the reliability and repair ability components.

I personally believe that the Zeiss Ikon is a terrific camera and I use mine regularly. I do believe that the Zeiss Ikon design very successfully addressed some Leica design foibles that are really no longer necessary. Unfortunately, though only time will really tell, I don't think that the Zeiss Ikon can compete with the build quality piece of the Leica experience.
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Old 06-17-2015   #359
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I've owned both - the M7 only briefly. Now, there's no denying that the M7 feels more substantial than the ZI; also, I put more faith in Leica's long-term commitment to service.

However, I do think Leica will be able to service M3s long after support has ended for M7s - basically, electronics are a lot harder to support than mechanics. Still I expect M7s to be serviceable long after ZI support has ended.

My ZI is a highly capable camera, and I love it to bits while it lasts. As others have suggested - if/when it fails beyond repair, I may just pick up another one and keep shooting.
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Old 06-17-2015   #360
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That's a difficult question, I would say the ZM but its design is NOT that great IMO, for me the M7 is much nicer to look at.

IMO reliability is not an issue: electronic shutters like the Copal one have been used since the 70s on SLRs (Pentax K2 first) and they are absolutely reliable after so many years.
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