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Instant back for 35mm SLR cameras
Old 06-12-2018   #1
taemo
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Instant back for 35mm SLR cameras

A new kickstarter for a 35mm Instax SQ back just came out, compatible initially for Nikon and Leica, with Pentax, Olympus and Canon afterwards.
I don't understand why they went with Instax SQ instead of Instax Mini to keep a closer 2:3 ratio instead of 1:1.
Also the image will be reversed left to right.

Tempted on backing for the Pentax as I don't want to butcher my M3.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-135-slr-and-r
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Old 06-12-2018   #2
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Looks great!

No butchering of any camera should be needed as long as the camera back is easily removable. Just unhook the swinging back from the M3 (or M4-2 in my case) and fit the optical portion of the adaptation, then bayonet the film processor onto that. I put in a pledge for the Leica M unit ... they'll be first out of the gate, presuming the pledges meet their goal, and the price is lowest for the early pledges.

I prefer the crop to square format ... then you don't have to sweat about turning the camera to portrait orientation with that big lump hanging off the bottom. And the image size is a little nicer than the Instax Mini.

I love wacky gizmos like this.

PS: I remember the original Speed Magny well ... Used one with a Nikon F many an eon ago when someone brought it in to the camera shop I was working for at the time, about 1971 or so. It was darn cool to use a Nikon and get an instant print out of it!

G
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Old 06-12-2018   #3
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The basic idea is decent enough as you can check the lighting etc. but from an illustration near the bottom it doesn't seem like you get a very good/close view of the viewfinder.

I wonder how good the image quality is.

It doesn't look like they've tested with one but I wonder if it can fit on a Nikon F301?
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Old 06-12-2018   #4
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I feel like backing just because of the John Berger tome in the sample images.
Cred status: earned.
...

Spoiler: Still probably won't back.
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Old 06-12-2018   #5
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I like the idea but would almost do it if:

- They turned the based 180 around and had it spit the film out the back

- Had a hand grip with a trigger release (something I can perhaps screw into the shutter release) that I can use to fire the shutter. Build it into the body to keep it reasonably small.

I'd go out and get an FM of some variant as it looks like fun. So for around $200 USD I think I could end up with an instant camera for my Nikkors MF Primes......

Great idea. One thumb way up, almost two.

B2 (;->
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Old 06-12-2018   #6
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Seems that if I had looked further on their page I would have seen the ejection port can point towards the back. I'm wondering if for the next version the hand grip (screw into the tripod port on the unit) could be made to eject the film say two seconds after you press the trigger on the hand grip.

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Old 06-12-2018   #7
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I’d like to see the first version produced before I ask for changes in the second version sion...
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Old 06-12-2018   #8
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Get a Speed Magny back for a Nikon F. Do they still make instant film for that back?


Joe
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Old 06-12-2018   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Livesteamer View Post
Get a Speed Magny back for a Nikon F. Do they still make instant film for that back?
No, it used peel-apart instant film, like the discontinued Fuji FP-100C.

Jim B.
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Old 06-12-2018   #10
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The original is, well, BIGGER. I'd get a Crown Graphic with an instant back.
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Old 06-12-2018   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Livesteamer View Post
Get a Speed Magny back for a Nikon F. Do they still make instant film for that back?
There's one available on Ebay at present:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-Mikam...e/183266933171

In another time, I'd have snapped it up—I have a Nikon F to play with. But without film being available, I'd have to convert it to Instax Wide or 6x9, or something like that, which would make it entirely too costly to play with. I didn't pay that much for the Nikon F, including the complete overhaul I had done to it.

No, this new toy is a much better deal.

G
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Old 06-12-2018   #12
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I bought a Speed Magny last year so I could mount one of my busted F's on it for display. Came in the original box, too, and looks like it was never used. It was something I had planned to do before Fuji killed pack film, so I went ahead with it even if it would only be for nostalgia sake. The price was right.


Over on PetaPixel they were riffing on how hard it would be to use the viewfinder (with one "expert" pointing out the two ports in the center of the rear of the Leica M, which just happen to be the flash ports), but at least on the Nikons and other SLRs you'd be able to use an angle finder. Is there not one also for the M?


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Old 06-12-2018   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farlymac View Post
...
Over on PetaPixel they were riffing on how hard it would be to use the viewfinder (with one "expert" pointing out the two ports in the center of the rear of the Leica M, which just happen to be the flash ports), but at least on the Nikons and other SLRs you'd be able to use an angle finder. Is there not one also for the M?
It's not going to be all that hard, particularly with the Leica M. I don't listen to all that nonsense. I've managed to get my eye close enough to do what's needed with nearly any weird stuff hanging off and around the camera. Inconvenient, perhaps, but not hard.

G
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Old 06-12-2018   #14
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Mirror image though, with only one reflection. Just where are all these extra backs going to be found. Are they buying up a bunch of old cameras and stripping off the backs?
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Old 06-13-2018   #15
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An update went to backers this morning. It had pictures showing the optics—which look good! all glass, multicoated and such—and fitment on a Leica M. The device is not as bulky as many seem to fear ... and, particularly on a Leica M, it looks like there will be no problem at all getting your eye to the viewfinder.

I tell ya, if they do a good job on the implementation, this is going to be a fun thing to shoot with. They've made it to 70% of their funding goal already...

Yes, the image will be left-right reversed. So what? Ever spent any time looking into a Rolleiflex or Hasselblad waist level finder? If you need it flipped, well, scan and flip it. Not a big deal at all, far as I'm concerned.

G
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Old 06-13-2018   #16
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I don't know how much of a concern it really is, but I think it's worth pointing out:
1. Light loss - 3 stops. Turns ISO 800 into ISO 100
2. "Maximum effective aperture: f/4 (If using aperture larger than f/4, the incoming light value will remain at f/4"
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Old 06-13-2018   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olo530 View Post
I don't know how much of a concern it really is, but I think it's worth pointing out:
1. Light loss - 3 stops. Turns ISO 800 into ISO 100
2. "Maximum effective aperture: f/4 (If using aperture larger than f/4, the incoming light value will remain at f/4"

1. Is inevitable. If an image is being enlarged, it will get darker. The bokeh crowd will love that part.



2. I don't understand how that can happen. Anybody?


It sounds like a neat toy. A much more flexible way to shoot Instax. If it used instax wide, I would be tempted to back a kickstarter for the first time. Like this it's too small for my taste, and not even using cheaper instax mini, but the expensive instax square film...


and.. has anybody found info about which cameras it will work with? They only seem to list brands, but not specific models, which doesn't make sense. Backs differ.
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Old 06-13-2018   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retinax View Post
and.. has anybody found info about which cameras it will work with? They only seem to list brands, but not specific models, which doesn't make sense. Backs differ.
Scroll down on the campaign page. They do list the specific models.
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Old 06-13-2018   #19
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I'm still on the fence on supporting this. Wouldn't mind giving this a try but I've had 50% success rate on Kickstarter (2 Kickstarters, still havent received my Ferrania film) and feel like I'm not losing much by paying full price later on once succesfull.
Plus I have the Mint RF70 on its way already later this year to keep me Instax happy.

Also I still can't make up my mind between a back for my M3 or Pentax MX
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Old 06-13-2018   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olo530 View Post
I don't know how much of a concern it really is, but I think it's worth pointing out:
1. Light loss - 3 stops. Turns ISO 800 into ISO 100
2. "Maximum effective aperture: f/4 (If using aperture larger than f/4, the incoming light value will remain at f/4"
Instax films are designed to operate with relatively slow lenses, which is just fine for their medium-size format.

To your point #1: Consider that the standard lens on most Instax cameras has an f/12 maximum lens opening (my Lomo Instant Square has a 95mm f/10 lens), I don't think light losses are much of an issue with any 35mm camera used as a host. Even an f/4 lens would net f/11 anyway with a three stop light loss. And even an f/11 lens on 2.4x2.4 inch format can produce nice out of focus blur at modest focusing distances.

What your point #2 means is that setting a fast 50mm lens to anything larger than f/4 nets no further increase in light going to the film due to the 'secondary iris' effect of the back's optical system. So, effectively, you've got a camera with an f/11 or smaller lens regardless what you put on the front of it, which is right in line with what Instax films were designed to operate best with.

I walked around my condo and backyard doing readings with a Sekonic light meter set to ISO 800, f/11 aperture priority reading. Outdoors, the exposures ranged from 1/125 to 1/1000 on this sunny day, from deep shade to open sun. Indoors (my living room, office, with large windows and blinds half open), I found I could cover most exposures with 1/8 to 1/30 second exposure times. Of course, most instant film like to have a little flash fill to manage contrasty circumstances in bright light, and that same little flash will help bring shutter times into a nice hand-holdable range.

G
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Old 06-13-2018   #21
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I can see how on paper this sounds like a good idea, but practically speaking, instead of using a bulky Rube Goldberg contraption, why not just get a SQ6?
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Old 06-13-2018   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taemo View Post
I'm still on the fence on supporting this. Wouldn't mind giving this a try but I've had 50% success rate on Kickstarter (2 Kickstarters, still havent received my Ferrania film) and feel like I'm not losing much by paying full price later on once succesfull.
Plus I have the Mint RF70 on its way already later this year to keep me Instax happy.

Also I still can't make up my mind between a back for my M3 or Pentax MX
I've supported about 20 Kickstarters since they began operations. Fifteen completed and produced product so far, of which about 12 were very satisfying and the other three didn't do much for me once completed. The remaining 5 are still in active development, including this one, and I'm getting regular messages and activity from them.

The benefit of subscribing early (and I decided right off the bat that the Leica M was the right camera for this endeavor... ) was that I get the lowest price ($99 plus some for shipping). That's a little more than half price, if they make it. At this point, I'm fully expecting they're going to make their funding...

G
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Old 06-13-2018   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
I can see how on paper this sounds like a good idea, but practically speaking, instead of using a bulky Rube Goldberg contraption, why not just get a SQ6?
An SQ6 is never going to have a lens the quality of any Leica, Nikon, Olympus, or whatever lens, and has no lens options to play with.

It is a photo toy, for sure, but a lot of photo toys can make some amazing photographs. If you already have a compatible camera, fer gosh sake, why not spend a hundred bucks to make it do more rather than spend $130 for something which does a lot less?

G
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Old 06-13-2018   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
I've supported about 20 Kickstarters since they began operations. Fifteen completed and produced product so far, of which about 12 were very satisfying and the other three didn't do much for me once completed. The remaining 5 are still in active development, including this one, and I'm getting regular messages and activity from them.

The benefit of subscribing early (and I decided right off the bat that the Leica M was the right camera for this endeavor... ) was that I get the lowest price ($99 plus some for shipping). That's a little more than half price, if they make it. At this point, I'm fully expecting they're going to make their funding...

G
99$ is not going to break the bank, decided to back the Leica version.
looking forward on giving it a try on my M3.
Might persuade me on getting a 12mm or 15mm lens later
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Old 06-14-2018   #25
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Woo Hoo!

I received a campaign message this morning that the Instant Magny 35 campaign has already achieved their funding goal, and they're going ahead with the finish development to production.

There are still a few Nikon Kick-Off Deal pledges available, as well as a good number of Leica Kick-Off Deal pledges available, so if you were waiting to see if they'd reach their funding goal, time to go for it and get the best price!

I love this kind of stuff.

G
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Old 06-14-2018   #26
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No matter how good the lens is that you use, instant film gives softish images compared to conventional film. It's just the nature of the beast. I've seen lots of photos from Hasselblad cameras w/ Polaroid backs and even w/ a 'blad lens you don't get anything like you would from conventional film. It's nice to support new projects, but reality is reality, especially with today's instant films. The old Type 55 and 665 Polaroid film was fine grained, would give nice sharpness AND you got a negative, but they haven't made that for over a decade.
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Old 06-14-2018   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
No matter how good the lens is that you use, instant film gives softish images compared to conventional film. It's just the nature of the beast. I've seen lots of photos from Hasselblad cameras w/ Polaroid backs and even w/ a 'blad lens you don't get anything like you would from conventional film. It's nice to support new projects, but reality is reality, especially with today's instant films. The old Type 55 and 665 Polaroid film was fine grained, would give nice sharpness AND you got a negative, but they haven't made that for over a decade.
So...? What's your point?
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Old 06-14-2018   #28
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I was riding the fence on this because of an upcoming trip, and some stuff I needed done to the truck first. I'd have backed Leica and Nikon on it, but the truck wins, -$880.

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Old 12-12-2018   #29
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Got an email update stating that they are ready to ship the backs next week.

Would be nice if I receive this before the holidays but realistically I'm expecting to get this in January.

Will be using it on my M3, will borrow a friends CV 15mm before committing on getting one as I'm undecided between the 12mm and 15mm
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Old 12-13-2018   #30
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I'm looking forward to receiving mine! Ordering four-five packs of Instax Square for it.

G
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Old 12-13-2018   #31
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Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
I'm looking forward to receiving mine! Ordering four-five packs of Instax Square for it.

G
Just curious, where do you find 5-packs? The only multi packs I've seen are 2-packs at B&H.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #32
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Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
Just curious, where do you find 5-packs? The only multi packs I've seen are 2-packs at B&H.
LOL! "Four to five packs" is what i meant... I bought two two-packs.



The Instant Magny 35 has arrived! Nicely packaged for shipment, the unit itself is nicely packaged too. Just handling it, it has a well-made, precise, quality feel. It fitted up to my M4-2 easily and quickly. I fitted a Nikon SB-30 to it, set f/5.6 @ 1/50 second, and made a test exposure.. It works well!
















First test exposure ... Color Skopar 50mm f/2.5 set to f/5.6, camera set to 1/50 flash sync, distance at 0.9m, auto flash. I was a bit close and should have flipped the diffuser on the flash to kill the hot spot, but it all works well. Note that I've flipped the image left to right in SnapSeed.


fun fun fun...

enjoy!
G
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #33
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What a cool idea! I'd buy a Nikon back.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #34
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What a cool idea! I'd buy a Nikon back.
If you're really interested, the Kickstarter is over, but they're taking pre-orders on Indiegogo: Instant Magny 35 Pre-orders.

I did some exposure tests. Their instructions for ISO 100 are pretty close, from what I see with my M4-2 I'd add another half to full stop exposure for best results. My testing also pointed out that lenses image differently through the relay optical system: The Color Skopar 50mm produces a lot of light falloff at edges and corners from f/4 to f/8, the Summarit-M 75mm produces none. I'm going to fit my Summicron-M 50 and swap between it and the Color Skopar for a couple of exposures, see how they compare at f/4 and f/11.

I have to say: The test images so far (when the exposure is right) look lovely! Sharp, contrasty, detailed, etc. They've done a very nice job!

G
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #35
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The next thing they could develop is a lens in shutter (with front element focusing) that will clip onto the cone for a direct camera. Also a clip on viewfinder. I'm thinking a simple 3 element f5.6 with stops to f32 in a mechanical leaf shutter, say 'B' plus 1/30 through 1/250 sec. Looks like the focal length would have to be about 100mm but since the diagonal of Instax Sq. is 87mm that doesn't seem too narrow an angle.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #36
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The next thing they could develop is a lens in shutter (with front element focusing) that will clip onto the cone for a direct camera. Also a clip on viewfinder. I'm thinking a simple 3 element f5.6 with stops to f32 in a mechanical leaf shutter, say 'B' plus 1/30 through 1/250 sec. Looks like the focal length would have to be about 100mm but since the diagonal of Instax Sq. is 87mm that doesn't seem too narrow an angle.
I could see taking the Instant Magny 35 processing unit and making it into a Hasselblad V system back too. It would take some work to make the adaptation, but that would be fun!


Testing the Instant Magny 35 with three lenses (Color Skopar 50mm f/2.5, Summicron-M 50mm f/2, M-Rokkor 90mm f/4), it's fairly obvious that short back-focus lenses are not a very good match to the relay optical system. The FAQ in the instructions warn about this, but it's interesting to see how severe the vignetting gets to be depending on aperture used.

It works very well with the Summarit 75 that I used for testing and the M-Rokkor 90 that I used on my little test walk. The Summicron 50 does reasonably well, if I keep it in the f/4 to f/5.6 range. The Color Skopar 50 produces a lot of vignetting even at f/4.

While I was walking, I saw a couple of boys riding their scooters in the church parking lot. They're my neighbor's kids and know me, so came over to see what I was doing. I showed them the camera and they let me make photos of them:




Leica M4-2, M-Rokkor 90mm f/4
ISO 100 @ f/5.6 @ 1/15 on Fujifilm Instax Square
Scanned with iPhone 8 Plus, processed in SnapSeed

enjoy!
G
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #37
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I might want to dig out one of my Olympus bodies to see if it would be lighter to use.

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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #38
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forgot to post on this, I just received mine today so will be giving it a try on my M3 with 35mm and 50mm later this evening.

borrowing a friends CV 15mm, hoping it works well on this.

Godfrey, those images looks great!
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #39
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forgot to post on this, I just received mine today so will be giving it a try on my M3 with 35mm and 50mm later this evening.

borrowing a friends CV 15mm, hoping it works well on this.

Godfrey, those images looks great!
Thanks!

I'm pretty sure the CV15 will be difficult at best due to its short back-focus distance. I've tested the Tri-Elmar-M 16-18-21 and even it, with about double the back focus of the CV15, is mostly hopeless: all you get is a center spot, the rest of the frame is black.

WATE @ 16mm:

I then fitted the Super-Elmar-R 15mm using my R Adapter M (after finding an exact focus distance using the CL body and setting that on the focusing ring). At f/4 and f/5.6, it works nicely, although getting the focus on target is problematic.

SER15:

So far, I've tested the following lenses, all at f/4:
  • Super-Elmar-R 15mm - good (SLR lens, on adapter the rear flange is well recessed from the M-mount flange)
  • Tri-Elmar-M 16-18-21mm @16mm - poor (despite that rear element is inset slightly from mount flange)
  • Summilux 35mm v2 (1972) - fair (a bit of darkening, rear element is flush with mount flange)
  • Pentax-L 43mm Limited - good (rear element is deeply recessed; this is an SLR lens in an RF mount.
  • Summicron-M 50mm (current) - fair to good (rear element is recessed from mount flange by a few mm)
  • Color Skopar 50mm - poor (rear element projects about 5-8mm past mount flange)
  • Summarit-M 75mm - good
  • M-Rokkor 90mm - good
  • Hektor 135mm (f/4.5) - good
You can get edge darkening with too small an aperture too, particularly with the shorter focal lengths. (That's why I did my tests at f/4.)

My take on this is to look at the lens and see where the rear-most element is relative to the lens mount flange. If the rear element is about flush or inset into the lens, it will be a fair to good performer. If the rear element projects into the camera body beyond the mount flange, it will perform poorly. As the focal length gets longer, you'll get better results at smaller apertures.

Exposure-wise, meter for ISO 100 and that's for a deep print. I add about 0.5 to 1.0 EV from there for a lot of situations to brighten up the print. The latitude is biased: the film responds better to a touch of overexposure rather than underexposure.

Go have at it! The Instant Magny 35 is a lot of fun to use! I've burned through three packs of film testing and learning how to get the most from it. When you hit it right, the little prints are jewels right out of the camera. And of course: capture them to digital and you can edit them further.

I'll likely use up my last two packs of film and make some 'real' photos playing with the 43mm and the 75mm.

G
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #40
taemo
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Age: 34
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Had to use flash as it was already dark when I got home and burned through a pack to figure out how the system works.

Pretty fun system although I don't see my self travelling around with it.

Hoping to give it a proper run over the weekend.

Thanks for testing the wide-angle M lenses on it, disappointing to see that a CV12 and CV15 will vignette on this, saved me time and money buying them.

2 frames from last night, taken with 50mm collapsible cron and 90mm T-E-M, I reversed the image on PS to reflect the mirrored image.
img575 by earl dieta, on Flickr

img572 by earl dieta, on Flickr
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