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120 film RF Folders 120/220 Format Folding Rangefinders, including the various classic Zeiss Ikontas, Voigtlander Bessas, and their Ruskie copies.

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Film Folder Filter Sizes
Old 02-12-2015   #1
BobBill
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Film Folder Filter Sizes

I have been frustrated trying to find a list of applicable filter/shade sizes that will function with folding film cameras using 120 film. I understand some lenses have no threads and require press-ons, but something must be available to preclude holding say a red filter or using a "tape-shade."

Anyone have advice or such a list? Thanks.
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Old 02-12-2015   #2
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Each camera & lens combination will likely have its own standards -- what camera/lens are you looking for?
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Old 02-12-2015   #3
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These antique cameras require antique methods.

Back in the day Kodak, Tiffen and others offered a range of friction fit slip on filter holders in various Series sizes. These filter holders came in a nearly a continuous range of sizes in generally 1-2mm increments. It was generally a case of bringing your camera into the dealer and trying on different holders to find the one that fit. It was a bit of a Trial-and-Terror job unless the clerk was knowledgeable and experienced enough to know what fit what. The camera manufacturer didn't indicate any "standard" size except for their own filter holder and lens combos (e.g. Kodak had printed tables for the dealer to use to match their filter holders to their cameras, ...).

You then purchased Series size filters to fit the holders. The most common filter sizes for 120 folders would be Series IV, V, and occasionally VI (it was traditional to use Roman numerals for Series sizes).
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Old 02-12-2015   #4
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Almost every folder will need push-on filters - if they have a thread, it will be fine pitch and intended for lens assembly.
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Old 02-12-2015   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbisc View Post
Each camera & lens combination will likely have its own standards -- what camera/lens are you looking for?

Well,

Konica Pearl, Certo-6, Mamiya-6, Zeiss Mess Ikon 6x9, Bessa II. I was hoping the Pearl and Certo and maybe the Mamiya would be common enough and easy.

One would think after all those years of production, some items would be on the market...what do I know?

I even bought a couple of lens-less sections hoping to us them in some way...no deal.

It is not hard to hold a filter in front of the lens and set the exposure accordingly, and I have very large K2 and Red filters I can use with a lens shade, if needed, but it is a pain, as you may know.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 02-12-2015   #6
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Another thing to consider is that most folders didn't have room to fold up with the filter adapter-filter-retaining ring assembly on the lens. you had to remove it before closing the camera.
Not really a problem I guess since I always leave my folders open unless I take a break or finish for the day.
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Old 02-12-2015   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobBill View Post
Well,

Konica Pearl, Certo-6, Mamiya-6, Zeiss Mess Ikon 6x9, Bessa II. I was hoping the Pearl and Certo and maybe the Mamiya would be common enough and easy.
The Mess Ikon and Bessa II would be the most common from a European perspective. They alone might account for up to seven different filter types (by size and attachment), as they came with at least three respectively four different lens options.
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Old 02-12-2015   #8
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This ebay store seems to have more than a few: photo_widget. I have bought a couple of items from them and been happy with what I received.
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Old 02-12-2015   #9
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Certo-Six is 40.5mm, so that one is easy. The Pearl II (which one do you have?) takes what looks to be about 30mm filters. As for the Mess-Ikonta, that's a press-on with 39mm diameter as best I can tell.
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Old 02-12-2015   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
Another thing to consider is that most folders didn't have room to fold up with the filter adapter-filter-retaining ring assembly on the lens. you had to remove it before closing the camera.
Not really a problem I guess since I always leave my folders open unless I take a break or finish for the day.
Yes, The space matter slipped my mind...I have it in my head that I should seek filter for the little 645 Pearl and the Certo, there must be filters around for them...slip or screw?

And, while I am showing all how naive I am about such things,

How are filter sizes measured?
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Old 02-12-2015   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobBill View Post
Well,

Konica Pearl, Certo-6, Mamiya-6, Zeiss Mess Ikon 6x9, Bessa II. I was hoping the Pearl and Certo and maybe the Mamiya would be common enough and easy.
.
The Bessa II with the Color-Skopal lens takes a 37mm push-on filter (not sure about others). The Zeiss, Mamiya and Konica data should be somewhere on the "Interweb"
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Old 02-12-2015   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoNickon View Post
Certo-Six is 40.5mm, so that one is easy. The Pearl II (which one do you have?) takes what looks to be about 30mm filters. As for the Mess-Ikonta, that's a press-on with 39mm diameter as best I can tell.
I have a plain Pearl or a "I" and it is very clean. EBay for not much and was surprised...shutter needs cleaning and I think the lens base was built a bit off-seems canted from top view. Am sending to fellow in Menomonie, WI Carol (Flutot's) recommended.

I would guess all the Pearls are same size, if any. Never shot this one...so small...so simple, looking forward to it. I was thinking of Ruth in CA, but WI guy's costs have to be way lower...if he is good. Have to call or email him.

I have been shooting pics for decades and have not a clue.

The Pearl is Japanese and Jergen specializes in German goods. Will send him the Certo..needs only the silver on rangefinder redone...

40.5 that is likely an easy one...will have to check around. Major clunk of a camera...40.5...much thanks.
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Old 02-13-2015   #13
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My Zeiss Super Ikonta pre war with Tessar takes 37mm push on.
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Folder Filters
Old 02-13-2015   #14
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Folder Filters

Maybe I should forget K2 and Red and pick up two polarized/neutral density (black-glass) sets? One to fit the 40.5 and a biger one to use with the others or the 645?
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Old 02-14-2015   #15
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I think series filters are the way to go here. In fact, accommodating a wide range of cameras without filter threads was pretty much the raison d'etre of the series concept to begin with! The idea is you get the right sized push-on adapter for each of your cameras, and then you can use all the drop-in filters available for the given series size, interchangeably among your cameras. There is a fair amount of flexibility in the system too since there are other items such as close-up lenses and lens hoods available, the filters are stackable, and there are also step-up adapters to go from Series V to VI, VI to VII, etc., should you have some larger or smaller-lensed cameras you want to accommodate.

For your particular list of cameras I am pretty sure that Series-VI filters and adapters are all that you will need. Although your Certo-Six apparently has its own filter thread, I imagine there is a press-on Series-VI adapter that will work too (you can measure the o.d. of the lens barrel to find which adapter will fit). If so you can avoid having to purchase a separate set of screw-on filters just for the one camera. An alternative adapter for this camera may be one of the threaded-to-series adapters that are available. For example, there is this Tiffen #602 adapter adapter which mates the Series-VI system to the camera's 40.5mm threads (unless I have that wrong and it goes the other way, in which case it may not be of use).
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Old 02-14-2015   #16
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Here's some information on Series drop-in filters:
http://www.apotelyt.com/photo-accessory/series-filters

I use these with my Zeiss Ikon Contaflex Super BC - Series V (30mm) drop-in filters in an adapter/retaining ring for the 27mm lens thread.
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Old 02-18-2015   #17
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Excellent, am learning and spending. Much appreciated, much appreciated. I never thought I would be messing with big old Wratten filters but here I are...and loving it like a fast sail...I would have been back earlier, but do not get notified for some reason...at least not often.
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Old 02-18-2015   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denverdad View Post
I think series filters are the way to go here. In fact, accommodating a wide range of cameras without filter threads was pretty much the raison d'etre of the series concept to begin with! The idea is you get the right sized push-on adapter for each of your cameras, and then you can use all the drop-in filters available for the given series size, interchangeably among your cameras. There is a fair amount of flexibility in the system too since there are other items such as close-up lenses and lens hoods available, the filters are stackable, and there are also step-up adapters to go from Series V to VI, VI to VII, etc., should you have some larger or smaller-lensed cameras you want to accommodate.

For your particular list of cameras I am pretty sure that Series-VI filters and adapters are all that you will need. Although your Certo-Six apparently has its own filter thread, I imagine there is a press-on Series-VI adapter that will work too (you can measure the o.d. of the lens barrel to find which adapter will fit). If so you can avoid having to purchase a separate set of screw-on filters just for the one camera. An alternative adapter for this camera may be one of the threaded-to-series adapters that are available. For example, there is this Tiffen #602 adapter adapter which mates the Series-VI system to the camera's 40.5mm threads (unless I have that wrong and it goes the other way, in which case it may not be of use).
Made this boyo's day, even if it zero outside...thanks. You saved me much search time and grief...
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Old 02-18-2015   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denverdad View Post
I think series filters are the way to go here. In fact, accommodating a wide range of cameras without filter threads was pretty much the raison d'etre of the series concept to begin with! The idea is you get the right sized push-on adapter for each of your cameras, and then you can use all the drop-in filters available for the given series size, interchangeably among your cameras. There is a fair amount of flexibility in the system too since there are other items such as close-up lenses and lens hoods available, the filters are stackable, and there are also step-up adapters to go from Series V to VI, VI to VII, etc., should you have some larger or smaller-lensed cameras you want to accommodate.

For your particular list of cameras I am pretty sure that Series-VI filters and adapters are all that you will need. Although your Certo-Six apparently has its own filter thread, I imagine there is a press-on Series-VI adapter that will work too (you can measure the o.d. of the lens barrel to find which adapter will fit). If so you can avoid having to purchase a separate set of screw-on filters just for the one camera. An alternative adapter for this camera may be one of the threaded-to-series adapters that are available. For example, there is this Tiffen #602 adapter adapter which mates the Series-VI system to the camera's 40.5mm threads (unless I have that wrong and it goes the other way, in which case it may not be of use).
+1 on the concept of series. the auction site used to have things like this in lots -- hardly anybody bid and you could get a load of adapters and filters for silly money. More of a pain to determine the diameter of the slip on adapter.
On Zeiss Ikon, at least on some cameras, you have the option of a ring that friction fits the outside diameter of the lens front, or fits into a concentric slot on the front face of the lens housing. That slot, however, requires thinner than usual rings that have not been easy to find.

Good luck.
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Old 02-20-2015   #20
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All over it, much thanks.
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Old 02-21-2015   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobBill View Post
Made this boyo's day, even if it zero outside...thanks. You saved me much search time and grief...
Glad to help! I thought I might pass along some additional information, for anyone who might be searching for these...

If you have an unthreaded lens the key piece is going to be the push-on (also called "press-on", "slip-on", etc.) adapter since everything else mounts to that. But sometimes the hardest part is finding the particular size you need. One source which typically has a good selection is eBay seller macintoshcat. His price is very reasonable (especially for eBay!), and I like it that he makes a point of including a retaining ring with each adapter. If nothing else, his ads (such as this one for Series VI adapters), are useful just to see the list of adapter sizes that were made for a given series.

Another source that typically has a good selection is Songofsnow.com. They are more expensive unfortunately, but I suppose if you are on a hunt for a difficult-to-find size and aren't willing to wait, then it might be worth it! You can check out what they have in my favorite size on their Series VI adapters and hoods page, and their Series VI filters page.
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Old 02-22-2015   #22
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BobBill......Harbor Freight Tools has a set of plastic calipers to about $2 that are accurate enough to measure for slip-on filter holders. You're going to have to go to Ebay to look for the holders and filters
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Old 02-24-2015   #23
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Yea Yea Muchas Gracias!

Odd I have the instant email thingy marked and nothing happens, so if I am late, sorry.
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Old 02-26-2015   #24
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I went cheap and simple...one red, one K2, Series VIII size...but still looking for more appropriate methods...
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